UT -Susan Powell, 28, West Valley City, 6 Dec 2009 - #3

[LogicalMinds]

On the thread that is about the sad murder of little Elizabeth Olten, we have been going over LOTs of info on "sociopaths" ...
people who lack the capacity to feel guilt, compassion and empathy

Here are some good links...really fits Josh
also it seems some sociopaths are into "business' (most more successful than Josh)
old Bernie Maddox is probably a sociopath

Scott Peterson...Drew Peterson....a whole line up of what I think of as "lizard" people
they remind me of the lizard under the skin lovely aliens in "V" tv show

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2...#ixzz0aKwECqTj

this is Dr Hare's site...he is an expert in sociopaths and wrote a book called "Without Conscience"

http://www.hare.org/

a pretty readable book (that I plan to read LOL...not too technical)...shows us how manipulative sociopaths are ...right among us....a lot of these abusive men are sociopaths
(apparently more men than women....but some, like the accused 15 yr old Allysa Bustamente are thought to be female sociopaths...I strongly believe that she is JMO)

reading over this stuff about Josh just reminds me of all I have learned on the thread for poor little Elizabeth

Here is a good interview with the author of "The Sociopath Next Door"

http://www.bookbrowse.com/author_interviews/full/index.cfm?author_number=1097

Josh?? Yep Yep Yep

 

[Texas Mist]

Where in the news article does it say Josh went to Pierce Community College?

it's in the comments

 

[SusanB]

Wow, Omega, you consistently amaze me! That graph you posted is awesome, and should be provided to everyone who may be in such a situation. I am listening top all of you posting on here with issues related to controlling/abusing partners. It makes me feel very blessed to be in the relationship I am in. So much can be learned from you guys - women who keep maintaining these type of relationships, decreasing self-esteem, and feelings of necessity to keep a man or they are worthless.
Women must be empowered with the knowledge that they do not NEED a man to be successful and productive!
Unfortunately, Susan Powell IMO had come to that realization, and was about to make a move towards her independence from a controlling abusive man. She was doing all the right things - preparing, good job to support herself and little boys, stashing money (I think someone said she was doing that), and obtaining counseling and support of her friends and family.
IMOO, she was getting ready, and JP knew that. He HAD to stop it! His control was slipping away, his "manhood" was being questioned, and now she was telling people! He was going to be the laughingstock of West Valley if he did not stop her soon!
Maybe something that weekend set his mind racing, she may have told him about wanting to divorce, or they argued about something. His plan had probably been in the back of his mind for some time, but suddenly he had to do it NOW. Without very good planning on the details. I think he did not think it all the way through, and let his anger/rage take over.
A lot of the story was made "as he went along" to make time periods fit, even if they did not make too much sense.
Again, all this is IMOHO.:angel:

 

[Patty G]

it's in the comments

Ohhhhhhhhhh, in the comment section.

 

[passionflower]

http://www.recovery-man.com/abusive/abusive_signs.htm

a list of abuse signs

 

[omegagal]

On the thread that is about the sad murder of little Elizabeth Olten, we have been going over LOTs of info on "sociopaths" ...
people who lack the capacity to feel guilt, compassion and empathy

Here are some good links...really fits Josh
also it seems some sociopaths are into "business' (most more successful than Josh)
old Bernie Maddox is probably a sociopath

Scott Peterson...Drew Peterson....a whole line up of what I think of as "lizard" people
they remind me of the lizard under the skin lovely aliens in "V" tv show

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2...#ixzz0aKwECqTj

this is Dr Hare's site...he is an expert in sociopaths and wrote a book called "Without Conscience"

http://www.hare.org/

a pretty readable book (that I plan to read LOL...not too technical)...shows us how manipulative sociopaths are ...right among us....a lot of these abusive men are sociopaths
(apparently more men than women....but some, like the accused 15 yr old Allysa Bustamente are thought to be female sociopaths...I strongly believe that she is JMO)

reading over this stuff about Josh just reminds me of all I have learned on the thread for poor little Elizabeth

Here is a good interview with the author of "The Sociopath Next Door"

http://www.bookbrowse.com/author_interviews/full/index.cfm?author_number=1097

Josh?? Yep Yep Yep

There's a little bit of professional divide between sociopath and psychopath.... I'd venture to say Hare would put these men into the psychopath category since they don't have a lengthly criminal record and are less "anti-social" than sociopaths...

 

[AmandaReckonwith]

Ohhhhhhhhhh, in the comment section.

Comments sections often have a wealth of info. Sometimes, much better than the stuff thrown around on NG and the other tabloid-quasi-news-entertainment shows.

 

[Texas Mist]

Just looking through some of Amanda's photos on her handy, dandy Photobucket link, and I saw something I hadn't seen before. It's from the article in Sunday's Salt Lake Tribune: "Chuck Cox said he bought his daughter a cell phone when she moved to Utah so she could use it for emergencies. Joshua Powell knew about the phone, he said, but he and Judy paid the bill each month to ensure his daughter had a way to call them.

"We wanted her to be able to call us whenever she wanted -- just on the off chance that if something ever got really weird -- we wanted to cover all of our bases so she could call us for help," he said.

That seems pretty telling. I'm not sure how I missed the article. Does anyone know if that was the only cell phone Susan had - the one that was left on the bed when she was missing? I wonder what the story was about how that ended up getting purchased - if it was in response to a specific circumstance, or if was just the general feel of the marriage that he had.

there's a post here that says Susan would have taken the cellphone her dad bought for her if she left of her own accord -- FWIW

6:43am - Fri Dec 11th, 2009

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=8986844&comments=true

I haven't been able to find the reason that her dad bought the phone for her.

 

[omegagal]

Wow, Omega, you consistently amaze me! That graph you posted is awesome, and should be provided to everyone who may be in such a situation. I am listening top all of you posting on here with issues related to controlling/abusing partners. It makes me feel very blessed to be in the relationship I am in. So much can be learned from you guys - women who keep maintaining these type of relationships, decreasing self-esteem, and feelings of necessity to keep a man or they are worthless.
Women must be empowered with the knowledge that they do not NEED a man to be successful and productive!
Unfortunately, Susan Powell IMO had come to that realization, and was about to make a move towards her independence from a controlling abusive man. She was doing all the right things - preparing, good job to support herself and little boys, stashing money (I think someone said she was doing that), and obtaining counseling and support of her friends and family.
IMOO, she was getting ready, and JP knew that. He HAD to stop it! His control was slipping away, his "manhood" was being questioned, and now she was telling people! He was going to be the laughingstock of West Valley if he did not stop her soon!
Maybe something that weekend set his mind racing, she may have told him about wanting to divorce, or they argued about something. His plan had probably been in the back of his mind for some time, but suddenly he had to do it NOW. Without very good planning on the details. I think he did not think it all the way through, and let his anger/rage take over.
A lot of the story was made "as he went along" to make time periods fit, even if they did not make too much sense.
Again, all this is IMOHO.:angel:

I am just getting over my divorce financially but have been working toward putting together a 12 week group support system for abused women in the church. Keep me in your prayers that I attain that goal. I'm taking Susan's situation personally. Even though I don't know her, I keep saying "What if I could have helped her!!" OMG, I'm sure that is what her family and friends must be going through times a million. It just breaks my heart!!

 

[passionflower]

Abusive Relationships:

Using Intimidation
• Making your partner afraid by using looks, actions, gestures.

• Smashing or destroying things.

• Destroying or confiscating your partner's property.

• Abusing pets as a display of power and control.

• Silent or overt raging.

• Displaying weapons or threatening their use.

• Making physical threats.

Using Emotional Abuse
• Putting your partner down.

• Making your partner feel bad about himself or herself.

• Calling your partner names.

• Playing mind games.

• Interrogating your partner.

• Harassing or intimidating your partner.

• "Checking up on" your partner's activities or whereabouts.

• Humiliating your partner, weather through direct attacks or "jokes".

• Making your partner feel guilty.

• Shaming your partner.

Using Isolation
• Controlling what your partner does, who he or she sees and talks to, what he or she reads, where he or she goes.

• Limiting your partner’s outside involvement.

• Demanding your partner remain home when you are not with them.

• Cutting your partner off from prior friends, activities, and social interaction.

• Using jealousy to justify your actions.

(Jealousy is the primary symptom of abusive relationships; it is also a core component of Love Addiction.)

Minimizing, Denying and Blame Shifting
• Making light of the abuse and not taking your partner’s concerns about it seriously.

• Saying the abuse did not happen, or wasn't that bad.

• Shifting responsibility for your abusive behavior to your partner. (i.e: I did it because you ______.)

• Saying your partner caused it.

Using Children
• Making your partner feel guilty about the children.

• Using the children to relay messages.

• Using visitation to harass your partner.

• Threatening to take the children away.

Using Male Privilege
• Treating your partner like a servant.

• Making all the big decisions.

• Acting like the "master of the castle."

• Being the one to define men’s and women’s or the relationship's roles.

Using Economic Abuse
• Preventing your partner from getting or keeping a job.

• Making your partner ask for money.

• Giving your partner an allowance.

• Taking your partner’s money.

• Not letting your partner know about or have access to family income.

any of this remind us of some of these guys that kill their spouses???

 

[Texas Mist]

Ohhhhhhhhhh, in the comment section.

the purpose of my post w/ those 3 links was to backup the previous post I made today regarding that information...it's way upthread so you may have missed it.

It was not my intention to mislead anyone earlier, or now.

Apologies if I did.

 

[LogicalMinds]

Actually the official definition is now "antisocial personality disorder"...

and many experts consider sociopath/psychopath to be one and the same

psychopath has often been used once a sociopath "crosses" the line to murder/violence

but now they use the both terms I think

here is a good article

Sociopath and psychopath
Terms for the same character disorder
http://www.lovefraud.com/01_whatsaSociopath/psychopath_or_sociopath.html

this seems to be a really good site : http://www.lovefraud.com

I will also post it on the abuse thread thanks

 

[passionflower]

Thanks for posting info on the new abuse thread!

 

[Texas Mist]

I am just getting over my divorce financially but have been working toward putting together a 12 week group support system for abused women in the church. Keep me in your prayers that I attain that goal. I'm taking Susan's situation personally. Even though I don't know her, I keep saying "What if I could have helped her!!" OMG, I'm sure that is what her family and friends must be going through times a million. It just breaks my heart!!

You're very special for stepping up to do this, omegagal....Women with deep religious convictions that are in abusive relationships need to know they can do more than just pray about it.

 

[Patty G]

Comments sections often have a wealth of info. Sometimes, much better than the stuff thrown around on NG and the other tabloid-quasi-news-entertainment shows.

True, but we normally back things up with "fact" if we are going to say someone attended college here or there etc. Without proof, we have to take it as a "rumor" or interesting reading.

The link was posted for the article, that is why I asked where it stated in the news article where it indicated Josh attended college.

 

[Texas Mist]

http://www.recovery-man.com/abusive/abusive_signs.htm

a list of abuse signs

sites like that would be one of the many reasons Josh would be so controlling of Susan's computer use.

 

[hoppyfrog]

This is what Tricia (WS owner) says about posting rumors:

"If you are a local and you have heard a rumor that is not ridiculous post it clearly as a rumor.

"I won't check if you say you are a local. This is different than saying you know the family.

"If this doesn't work out because people start relying on rumors or repeating rumors as fact we will change it back [to no rumors allowed at all]."

And, as always, if you pick up a fact or a rumor from a media source, you must include a link to it.

Thanks,

Hoppy
mod

 

[omegagal]

Actually the official definition is now "antisocial personality disorder"...

and many experts consider sociopath/psychopath to be one and the same

psychopath has often been used once a sociopath "crosses" the line to murder/violence

but now they use the both terms I think

here is a good article

Sociopath and psychopath
Terms for the same character disorder
http://www.lovefraud.com/01_whatsaSociopath/psychopath_or_sociopath.html

this seems to be a really good site : http://www.lovefraud.com

I will also post it on the abuse thread thanks

Love Fraud is an excellent site for more information. Yes, right now there is only one diagnosis in the DSM but the profession is working to have an additional classification because researchers are finding some distinct differences in the two. As well as classifications for children since they have avoided diagnosing children up til now. There are researchers that believe they can actually help children with these personality disorders if they are treated early enough. Right now, there are no treatments for personality disorders in the adult population.... see my earlier post on Schema Therapy.....

... also another great book "Snakes in Suits When Psychopaths Go To Work" by Robert Hare....

... or the video I, Psychopath which talks about the differences between ASPD and the Psychopath.... http://a.blip.tv/scripts/flash/showplayer.swf?file=http%3A%2F%2Fblip.tv%2Frss%2Fflash%2F2281368%3Freferrer%3Dhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Funrighteous-dominion.com%25252F%25253Fp%25253D358%26source%3D3&showplayerpath=http%3A%2F%2Fblip.tv%2Fscripts%2Fflash%2Fshowplayer.swf&feedurl=http%3A%2F%2Fproletariatheroes.blip.tv%2Frss%2Fflash&brandname=blip.tv&brandlink=http%3A%2F%2Fblip.tv%2F%3Futm_source%3Dbrandlink&enablejs=true

 

[Patty G]

the purpose of my post w/ those 3 links was to backup the previous post I made today regarding that information...it's way upthread so you may have missed it.

It was not my intention to mislead anyone earlier, or now.

Apologies if I did.

No problem. I see you added "comments" to the news link. This will help anyone that comes along later on to read the posts.

I very rarely read the comment section of the news sites so that was why I asked where it was in the article.

 

[passionflower]

Abusive relationships are characterized by extreme jealousy, emotional withholding, lack of intimacy, raging, sexual coercion, infidelity, verbal abuse, threats, lies, broken promises, physical violence, power plays and control games.

Abuse does not have to be physical.

Emotional abuse is as damaging as physical abuse, though it is often harder to recognize, and therefore to recover from. Emotional abuse causes long term self esteem issues and profound emotional repercussions for the partners of abusers. Abuse typically alternates with declarations of love and statements that they will change, providing a "hook" to keep the partner in the relationship.

Abusive relationships are progressive -

Abusive relationships get worse over time. Emotional and verbal abuse frequently shifts to more overt threats or physical abuse, particularly in times of stress. Abusers are generally very needy and controlling; the abuse escalates when they feel they may lose their partner, or when the relationship ends.


Abusers are often survivors of abuse themselves.
Many of the attributes of abusers are documented trauma based adaptations to childhood emotional, physical and sexual abuse. Abusers act out of deep seated shame and feelings of inadaquacy. They seek to pull thier partner down to make themselves feel better.

Abuse is a family dysfunction that repeats through generations. The abused becomes the abuser and so continues the cycle.