UT - Susan Powell, 28, West Valley City, 6 Dec 2009 #7

[GrandmaTo4]

The problem is there is no Washington State University in Seattle. Only the University of Washington. So what she said is in error one way or the other. Personally, I think it would be easier to mix up WSU over U of W before I would confuse which city it was in. For that reason, I am thinking it was probably U of W she meant to say. I suspect he attended, but did not finish.

Michael Powell DID attend Washington State ... but graduated from the University of Washington after an additional year and a half of classes.

I think there's a good chance Alina attended Washington State too. She lived in the Spokane area for a time - as did Michael during 2003-2005.

Did you check to see if there's an auxiliary branch of Washington State Univ. in the Seattle area?

If the younger Powells attended Washington State it's possible that Josh did too.

I agree with you though. I don't think Josh has a degree from anywhere.

 

[gwenabob]

I think you've hit the nail on the head. Subservient, to an extent, is the term that comes to my mind about Kirsii and her "way" in life. I mean absolutely no disrespect with this.........but rather maybe a speculation from an outsider of how maybe this family operates under the LDS spectrum. It reminds me of a way of life from generations ago.

Mmmm, I don't get the idea Kiirsi is "subservient." I think she is intelligent, talented and has a lot of initiative. I doubt she would bow down to any man simply because she is a woman. I do think she has lived a very sheltered life, however, and just doesn't have a lot of experience dealing with domestic abuse. I suspect it is just an abstract concept to her. JMO

 

[gwenabob]

Michael Powell DID attend Washington State ... but graduated from the University of Washington after an additional year and a half of classes.

I think there's a good chance Alina attended Washington State too. She lived in the Spokane area for a time - as did Michael during 2003-2005.

Did you check to see if there's an auxiliary branch of Washington State Univ. in the Seattle area?

If the younger Powells attended Washington State it's possible that Josh did too.

I agree with you though. I don't think Josh has a degree from anywhere.

I did check. The main campus is in Pullman, with extensions in Spokane, Tri-Cities, and Vancouver. None in Seattle. So, I just really don't know what to make of this information. Regardless, we agree that any degree talk is most likely bunk. Also, The registrar did say that there were two different Joshua Powells who did attend U of W.

 

[GrandmaTo4]

I think you misunderstood what I wrote. I meant that "don't say anything mean" is Kiirsi's take on life in general. Because of that, Susan felt she couldn't divulge to Kiirsi the things that were going on with Josh. Kiirsi didn't want to hear it because she didn't have the capacity to fully understand it due to her upbringing and naivete. I think you and I agree on this issue in general.

I didn't realize Kiirsti was THAT naive. Doesn't she have a college education? I thought I read that she met John in college in the Midwest, IIRC. We certainly do agree that Susan most certainly did not tell Kiirsti "most everything."

 

[gwenabob]

I didn't realize Kiirsti was THAT naive. Doesn't she have a college education? I thought I read that she met John in college in the Midwest, IIRC. We certainly do agree that Susan most certainly did not tell Kiirsti "most everything."

I believe she does have a college degree. From which college, I have no idea. What degree does she have? No idea. Early childhood education? Home economics? Family science? Just guesses, and I could be wildly off. But I just wanted to point out that a "college degree" does not necessarily make one "worldly." JMO

 

[GrandmaTo4]

I did check. The main campus is in Pullman, with extensions in Spokane, Tri-Cities, and Vancouver. None in Seattle. So, I just really don't know what to make of this information. Regardless, we agree that any degree talk is most likely bunk. Also, The registrar did say that there were two different Joshua Powells who did attend U of W.

Josh sure is the huge BS'r, isn't he? I don't know how he could have the unmitigated gall to claim his high honors academic fraternity PLUS graduating magna laude. That's about as good as it gets!

Just think of all the crap he's apparently gotten away with. He should have been jailed for his fraudulent bankruptcy claims, too. I just hope his luck has run out big-time - so Susan and the Coxs will have some justice.

Joshua's middle name is Steven, BTW -- in case that would help differentiate him from the other Joshua Powell

 

[gwenabob]

I have sisters-in-law who are like Kiirsi in some ways. They are intelligent, capable, talented women. They all went to college, but they didn't all finish. They have lots going for them, but like Kiirsi, their lives revolve completely around their families and church. They don't read the paper. They only read "clean" romance books because that's what their mother read. They lead very sheltered, innocent lives. I find them rather naive and a little boring, but they are extremely wonderful women. They are the first to show up with a meal or babysitting for someone in need. They have tremendous faith and it shows in every way. They are strong in many ways, and certainly not "subservient" to their husbands, but they show respect for their husbands and their husbands respect them. They are true salt-of-the-earth kind of people, but the last women I would go to if I were being abused. Not because they wouldn't care, but because they have never experienced it and have not experienced very much of what is going on beyond their home and church. They have never been abused, nor did they grow up in an abusive home. They just wouldn't get it. It would be like asking for sex advice from a nun. Pointless.

 

[gwenabob]

Josh sure is the huge BS'r, isn't he? I don't know how he could have the unmitigated gall to claim his high honors academic fraternity PLUS graduating magna laude. That's about as good as it gets!

Just think of all the crap he's apparently gotten away with. He should have been jailed for his fraudulent bankruptcy claims, too. I just hope his luck has run out big-time - so Susan and the Coxs will have some justice.

Joshua's middle name is Steven, BTW -- in case that would help differentiate him from the other Joshua Powell

Like Mark Hacking, there are two different Joshes. The one that is, and the one he wishes he were.

 

[GrandmaTo4]

I believe she does have a college degree. From which college, I have no idea. What degree does she have? No idea. Early childhood education? Home economics? Family science? Just guesses, and I could be wildly off. But I just wanted to point out that a "college degree" does not necessarily make one "worldly." JMO

I agree that a degree does not make one worldly -- nor necessarily smart. But if she was homeschooled all her life at least she would have been more exposed to *real life* during her college years.

I don't know what type of degree Kiirsti has -- of IF she has one, for sure. Home ec or early childhood education are excellent guesses.

 

[GrandmaTo4]

Like Mark Hacking, there are two different Joshes. The one that is, and the one he wishes he were.

Boy, aint that the truth! :loser:

 

[GrandmaTo4]

I have sisters-in-law who are like Kiirsi in some ways. They are intelligent, capable, talented women. They all went to college, but they didn't all finish. They have lots going for them, but like Kiirsi, their lives revolve completely around their families and church. They don't read the paper. They only read "clean" romance books because that's what their mother read. They lead very sheltered, innocent lives. I find them rather naive and a little boring, but they are extremely wonderful women. They are the first to show up with a meal or babysitting for someone in need. They have tremendous faith and it shows in every way. They are strong in many ways, and certainly not "subservient" to their husbands, but they show respect for their husbands and their husbands respect them. They are true salt-of-the-earth kind of people, but the last women I would go to if I were being abused. Not because they wouldn't care, but because they have never experienced it and have not experienced very much of what is going on beyond their home and church. They have never been abused, nor did they grow up in an abusive home. They just wouldn't get it. It would be like asking for sex advice from a nun. Pointless.

I totally understand what you're saying. I've met a few of those kind of women -- though mighty few. You can't help but love them. They are genuinely kind, generous and warmhearted; but I would feel terrible burdening them with really bad problems.

 

[grayjay]

I have sisters-in-law who are like Kiirsi in some ways. They are intelligent, capable, talented women. They all went to college, but they didn't all finish. They have lots going for them, but like Kiirsi, their lives revolve completely around their families and church. They don't read the paper. They only read "clean" romance books because that's what their mother read. They lead very sheltered, innocent lives. I find them rather naive and a little boring, but they are extremely wonderful women. They are the first to show up with a meal or babysitting for someone in need. They have tremendous faith and it shows in every way. They are strong in many ways, and certainly not "subservient" to their husbands, but they show respect for their husbands and their husbands respect them. They are true salt-of-the-earth kind of people, but the last women I would go to if I were being abused. Not because they wouldn't care, but because they have never experienced it and have not experienced very much of what is going on beyond their home and church. They have never been abused, nor did they grow up in an abusive home. They just wouldn't get it. It would be like asking for sex advice from a nun. Pointless.

I totally understand what you're saying. I've met a few of those kind of women -- though mighty few. You can't help but love them. They are genuinely kind, generous and warmhearted; but I would feel terrible burdening them with really bad problems.

There's one more thing that seems to come out now, too. These people are more controlling with FaceBook because it's not easy to keep the world of complexity and bad things at bay. Plus they're more judgmental than they realize because they're trying so hard to stay clean and keep themselves above the grittiness of life.

A long time ago, I remember thinking about divorce at a time when it was totally not OK with those in my circle of friends. It was failure and disaster, and everything is supposed to work out because the dresses are white and the wedding cake is white, and the mate is highly respected and graduated phi beta kappa from the ivy league school. A quiet, gentle and good person.

I remember the first mentor who sensed the torment in my expression and so carefully and quietly said that divorce can sometimes be a needed thing. A needed thing! What an interesting word, but apt of the culture and the time and so perceptive of my own state of mind. I can see this happening with Susan. My life mentor was someone I met at work.

 

[dovebar]

I agree that a degree does not make one worldly -- nor necessarily smart. But if she was homeschooled all her life at least she would have been more exposed to *real life* during her college years.

I don't know what type of degree Kiirsti has -- of IF she has one, for sure. Home ec or early childhood education are excellent guesses.

Even if she went to a secular college, lots of fundamentalist Baptist or other Protestant kids, Muslims, conservative Catholics go to secular colleges but manage to keep to a certain circle of friends. By choosing certain majors, as you point out, they can restrict the classes they take, and frat parties are optional, not required. Similarly, many "highly educated" Mormons with graduate degrees from big, important schools in the East manage to have little interaction outside of their wife and church friends.

It's not surprising to me at all that Susan, like all of us, had a sense about who she could tell certain things to. We shouldn't forget that some of the things coming out were witnessed, not just told. It must be painful for Kiirsti to realize that her close friend could not trust her with the darkest goings on of her marriage - and therefore sort of insulting. If you're the "best friend," the knowledge that there was a lot you didn't know is hard to process, and you might decide not to process it but to deny it. That would just be your coping strategy.

 

[PickieChickie]

I believe she does have a college degree. From which college, I have no idea. What degree does she have? No idea. Early childhood education? Home economics? Family science? Just guesses, and I could be wildly off. But I just wanted to point out that a "college degree" does not necessarily make one "worldly." JMO

The dark side of the Search for Susan Powell - by Kirsii Hellewell​

About me: I’m 34 years old, originally from northern Wisconsin, a beautiful land covered in deep green forests and thousands of lakes and rivers.

I’m the oldest of 7 kids. I was homeschooled (except for one semester of high school when I attended full-time so I could take driver’s training) until college, which I attended in Utah. I graduated from LDS Business College (LDSBC) with an Associate of Science degree, transferred to BYU, and graduated with honors with a Bachelor of Arts in English.

John and I moved into our current home in West Valley in 2003. Since we had both recently finished college and had 3 small kids, we were excited to make new friends and meet people. But most young people in our area were still in school and working and too busy to have time for friends. In the spring of 2004, Josh and Susan Powell bought a house in our neighborhood and came to church. Their first Sunday at church we introduced ourselves and told them we’d love to have them over sometime to get to know them. They said “Sure, that sounds great!”
http://crosscountryadventures.wordpress.com/2009/12/28/the-dark-side-of-the-search-for-susan/

 

[GrandmaTo4]

There's one more thing that seems to come out now, too. These people are more controlling with FaceBook because it's not easy to keep the world of complexity and bad things at bay. Plus they're more judgmental than they realize because they're trying so hard to stay clean and keep themselves above the grittiness of life.

A long time ago, I remember thinking about divorce at a time when it was totally not OK with those in my circle of friends. It was failure and disaster, and everything is supposed to work out because the dresses are white and the wedding cake is white, and the mate is highly respected and graduated phi beta kappa from the ivy league school. A quiet, gentle and good person.

I remember the first mentor who sensed the torment in my expression and so carefully and quietly said that divorce can sometimes be a needed thing. A needed thing! What an interesting word, but apt of the culture and the time and so perceptive of my own state of mind. I can see this happening with Susan. My life mentor was someone I met at work.

(bbm)

Exactly -- and 'at work' is no doubt where Susan would meet any mentors who would have an ounce of understanding and advice regarding the intolerance of her miserable marriage.

'Judgmental' is an excellent description of Susan's usual group of friends. I'm sorry if I offend anyone, but I've never seen fasting and prayer fix a narcissistic, mean bully yet!

 

[DomCasual]

I believe she does have a college degree. From which college, I have no idea. What degree does she have? No idea. Early childhood education? Home economics? Family science? Just guesses, and I could be wildly off. But I just wanted to point out that a "college degree" does not necessarily make one "worldly." JMO

I could be mistaken. But I vaguely remember reading that she had a BA in English from BYU.

 

[DomCasual]

No, I don't believe women should be expected to forgive husbands bad behavior over and over. Nope.

This reminds me of a co-worker of mine. She has two boys and her husband has had multiple affairs. She almost left him last year, but didn't. She felt that she needed to be more forgiving. She's Catholic. And a lawyer.

Let's face it. Men and women of all faiths screw up. Let's stop blaming any one faith for it. This is turning into another Grandma Mormon bashing session and if it doesn't stop, I will complain.

I am knowing I am probably making a mistake by getting sucked into this, but c'est la vie.

The problem I see is when people use anecdotal evidence to make far-reaching statements.

"I know a Mormon woman who is in a marriage with a ; hence, all Mormon men are scumbags!"

I'm exaggerating, obviously; but not much.

At any level, it's ignorant and offensive.

Josh Powell isn't a good guy. Ironically, based on some of the statements made about Mormon gender roles in some of these threads, he isn't really an active Mormon. I know hundreds - probably thousands - of Mormon men. I don't know one that is like Josh Powell.

 

[grayjay]

Thanks for your comment, Dom. It needs to be said. The same goes for the generalizations about women. It's fine that there are strong opinions, but not when they get disrespectful to others who are posting here.

JMO

 

[SuziQ]

I agree that a degree does not make one worldly -- nor necessarily smart. But if she was homeschooled all her life at least she would have been more exposed to *real life* during her college years.

I don't know what type of degree Kiirsti has -- of IF she has one, for sure. Home ec or early childhood education are excellent guesses.

Not if she went to BYU. I personally know this. It's a great school and the students there are fantastic....but it's not the typical college campus. Not too many colleges have an honor code that regulates behavior off campus. I know many a parent who sent their daughters there in an effort to keep them innocent. Oh sure stuff goes on, but if the school gets wind of it you are outta there. I've personally seen that too. Their off campus housing is strictly regulated as well. In many cases the rules are more strict than what they had living at home with mom and dad.

[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brigham_Young_University_Honor_Code[/ame]

 

[GrandmaTo4]

The dark side of the Search for Susan Powell - by Kirsii Hellewell​

About me: I’m 34 years old, originally from northern Wisconsin, a beautiful land covered in deep green forests and thousands of lakes and rivers.

I’m the oldest of 7 kids. I was homeschooled (except for one semester of high school when I attended full-time so I could take driver’s training) until college, which I attended in Utah. I graduated from LDS Business College (LDSBC) with an Associate of Science degree, transferred to BYU, and graduated with honors with a Bachelor of Arts in English.

John and I moved into our current home in West Valley in 2003. Since we had both recently finished college and had 3 small kids, we were excited to make new friends and meet people. But most young people in our area were still in school and working and too busy to have time for friends. In the spring of 2004, Josh and Susan Powell bought a house in our neighborhood and came to church. Their first Sunday at church we introduced ourselves and told them we’d love to have them over sometime to get to know them. They said “Sure, that sounds great!”
http://crosscountryadventures.wordpress.com/2009/12/28/the-dark-side-of-the-search-for-susan/

Hmmm, I guess Kiirsti's college experiences wouldn't have introduced her to the extensive spectrum of the 'real world' after all.