VA - 6-YEAR-OLD in custody after shooting teacher, Newport News, Jan 2023 *mom charged* #2

[Erutan]

I stand by what I said. A normal kid, even disabled, in kindergarten, isn't knocking down a peer, lifting her dress, and getting on top of her. That is serious behavioral issues. And sexual assault. It isn't "playing doctor".

Agreed.^^^

This was not a child from a normal environment in any sense of the word.
It is a failure -- not only to the child in question ; but to the other children and the educators, to excuse abhorrent and violent behavior by saying the child has a disability, so it's not his fault.

It's been said (was this information provided from the mother ?) that he had an 'acute disability'.
We have not been told what that was.
Uncontrolled rage was evident, but that may have been more due to things he was exposed to and exacerbated his anger.
That wouldn't necessarily fall under a diagnosis of being disabled.

If the boy who shot Ms. Zwerner was that severely disabled to the point of sexual assault and also (Iirc) telling another student he wanted to set the teacher on fire and hitting other kids with a belt, he shouldn't have been allowed to be around normal, non-violent children.
He was too dangerous.
Period.
Imo.

 

[doublestop]

I'm curious how this boy treats his own mother. Does she live in fear of him? and if so what recourse does she have?

I've wondered if that is why she had a gun accessible in the first place, sadly.

 

[AZLocal]

The child is labeled "Emotionally Disturbed", in order to access funding for special education services. Usually in a self contained classroom.

Sec. 300.8 (c) (4) - Individuals with Disabilities Education Act

(4) (i) Emotional disturbance means a condition exhibiting one or more of the following characteristics over a long period of time and to a marked degree that adversely affects a child’s educational performance: (A) An inability to learn that cannot be explained by intellectual, sensory, or...

sites.ed.gov

I write this with no knowledge of your experience with having a child who has a mental illness. But I will say this: what IDEA says and what services and supports are *actually* available are two entirely different things.

Special education services are severely underfunded. In my personal experience, my son’s school did everything in its power to deny my son the services he actually needed, up to and including falsely accusing his parents of abuse in an IEP meeting. We are still in court over it, and it’s been FIVE YEARS. Had we not had enough family resources, we could not have afforded a court challenge, let alone to know where to look for help.

My heart breaks for anyone in this situation. There are truly very few resources available to kids with mental health disorders. The United States continues to fail all of us when it comes to mental health.

 

[AZLocal]

I've wondered if that is why she had a gun accessible in the first place, sadly.

Tragically this is well within the realm of possibility. In our case, having a son with severe mental illness, we never had and will never have firearms in our home because we know it is far more likely they would be used against us or someone else than for our own protection.

 

[Ladyotm]

Not always in a self-contained room.

Medical neglect question. Scenario- A child has been identified with a disability and prescribed medication. If a child is under a doctor's care, prescribed the meds, and doctor was under the impression child was taking the meds, is this not medical neglect? Should schools make a referral to CPS and let them determine if child is neglected? I'm just wondering as we think about students who may not be receiving all the benefits and resources that will help them be successful and realize this is not the situation for this particular child.

 

[jjonez]

Here you go. Subscribers can post links to “gift articles.”

https://wapo.st/41lSR07

Thank you!

 

[Simply Southern]

I found it! Why were they checking his book bag as soon as he arrived "late" to school. Questions, I ponder: Was mom looking for the missing gun? Was he able to hide it within the car and them move it to his bookbag?

Quoted from article, "The school system's superintendent, George Parker III, said at a virtual town hall this month that the boy had come to school late and that his book bag was inspected when he arrived at the office to sign in, said parents who watched the meeting."

I am doubtful the book bag was searched when the child arrived. It is noted the book bag was searched during lunch, but he had already transfer the gun to his person. Moo

 

[MyBelle]

I've wondered if that is why she had a gun accessible in the first place, sadly.

I think the most likely reason is that the state had very lax gun storage laws at the time of the shooting.

JMO

 

[mickey2942]

I write this with no knowledge of your experience with having a child who has a mental illness. But I will say this: what IDEA says and what services and supports are *actually* available are two entirely different things.

Special education services are severely underfunded. In my personal experience, my son’s school did everything in its power to deny my son the services he actually needed, up to and including falsely accusing his parents of abuse in an IEP meeting. We are still in court over it, and it’s been FIVE YEARS. Had we not had enough family resources, we could not have afforded a court challenge, let alone to know where to look for help.

My heart breaks for anyone in this situation. There are truly very few resources available to kids with mental health disorders. The United States continues to fail all of us when it comes to mental health.

I am so sorry for your experience. Having a child with any disability is difficult, and dealing with a mental illness is one of the hardest disabilities, because of the inconsistencies and manipulative behaviors that are hard wired in.

The school system really isn't equipped to deal with a child that has a pervasive mental illness. That is the "catch all" of "emotional disturbance" in IDEA. As I stated earlier, I taught special education, trained in mostly learning disabilities, vision, hearing accommodations. I did get a degree in school counseling, but that is really focused on evaluating transcripts, testing, and coordinating services, not working with children who have severe emotional disturbance. That is a special niche, of specialized skills.

Definitely beyond my scope. I wouldn't have a clue where to even begin to start with "John Doe".

 

[YepperBepper]

Was this child labeled "Emotionally Disturbed"? I recall the attorney said he has an "acute disability."
Could be the same maybe?

"Acute Disability" has a specific legal definition. Since it was a lawyer that said it, I'll assume this is what he meant.

There are multiple online links in law describing it. Generally speaking it's a severe mental disorder which meets certain criteria.

Sample

Probate - Persistent or acute disability

Persistent or acute disability - A severe mental disorder that meets all the following criteria: If not treated has a substantial probability of causing the person to suffe...

azcourthelp.org

Imho

 

[AZLocal]

I am so sorry for your experience. Having a child with any disability is difficult, and dealing with a mental illness is one of the hardest disabilities, because of the inconsistencies and manipulative behaviors that are hard wired in.

The school system really isn't equipped to deal with a child that has a pervasive mental illness. That is the "catch all" of "emotional disturbance" in IDEA. As I stated earlier, I taught special education, trained in mostly learning disabilities, vision, hearing accommodations. I did get a degree in school counseling, but that is really focused on evaluating transcripts, testing, and coordinating services, not working with children who have severe emotional disturbance. That is a special niche, of specialized skills.

Definitely beyond my scope. I wouldn't have a clue where to even begin to start with "John Doe".

Thank you for your kindness and your service.

 

[AZLocal]

I am so sorry for your experience. Having a child with any disability is difficult, and dealing with a mental illness is one of the hardest disabilities, because of the inconsistencies and manipulative behaviors that are hard wired in.

The school system really isn't equipped to deal with a child that has a pervasive mental illness. That is the "catch all" of "emotional disturbance" in IDEA. As I stated earlier, I taught special education, trained in mostly learning disabilities, vision, hearing accommodations. I did get a degree in school counseling, but that is really focused on evaluating transcripts, testing, and coordinating services, not working with children who have severe emotional disturbance. That is a special niche, of specialized skills.

Definitely beyond my scope. I wouldn't have a clue where to even begin to start with "John Doe".

Thank you for your kindness and your service.

 

[YepperBepper]

I write this with no knowledge of your experience with having a child who has a mental illness. But I will say this: what IDEA says and what services and supports are *actually* available are two entirely different things.

Special education services are severely underfunded. In my personal experience, my son’s school did everything in its power to deny my son the services he actually needed, up to and including falsely accusing his parents of abuse in an IEP meeting. We are still in court over it, and it’s been FIVE YEARS. Had we not had enough family resources, we could not have afforded a court challenge, let alone to know where to look for help.

My heart breaks for anyone in this situation. There are truly very few resources available to kids with mental health disorders. The United States continues to fail all of us when it comes to mental health.

All very true.

Honestly, had mom made any effort to have her child placed in residential due to his violent behaviors, IF she did find placement, it would be a short lived placement. Then he would be back home, placed on some hard core meds while still having the same mental or emotional disturbances. Imho

I chose not to fight the fight with our district. They wanted my guys in a regular classroom. I knew that they did not belong there. Their suggestion was give it one year and we could see how it went. My boys are moderately autistic. When they were young, they were impulsive, violent to themselves and sometimes others. Meltdowns lasting up to an hour. Had I made that decision, I would have been endangering every child in that room. I wanted my boys educated, but not while risking the safety of other children. I wanted my boys educated, but I also felt I knew what was right for them. Since the fight with the district began before they were even enrolled, I opted out. We chose private and I got a 2nd job to pay for it.

Special education can be a cesspool of red tape, broken promises, no funding and sometimes legal battles.

Imho

I don't think this excuses the parents or the district of leaving a chronically violent child in the classroom. Rational decisions need to be made whether a child is disabled or not. Imho

 

[fred&edna]

I think the most likely reason is that the state had very lax gun storage laws at the time of the shooting.

JMO

Why isn't common sense enough?

 

[MyBelle]

Why isn't common sense enough?

Because common sense can't be legislated.

 

[fred&edna]

Because common sense can't be legislated.

Shouldn't have to be nor should it always be a necessity... especially with such a dangerous child.

But, I guess there's a whole lotta' stupid... especially in this case.

 

[MyBelle]

Shouldn't have to be.

I agree but history has shown legislative intervention is needed when it comes to public safety and child welfare whether it is kids being left in hot cars, to leaving guns within the reach of a child.

 

[x_files]

"Acute Disability" has a specific legal definition. Since it was a lawyer that said it, I'll assume this is what he meant.

There are multiple online links in law describing it. Generally speaking it's a severe mental disorder which meets certain criteria.

Sample

Probate - Persistent or acute disability

Persistent or acute disability - A severe mental disorder that meets all the following criteria: If not treated has a substantial probability of causing the person to suffe...

azcourthelp.org

Imho

thank you.

 

[fred&edna]

I agree but history has shown legislative intervention is needed when it comes to public safety and child welfare whether it is kids being left in hot cars, to leaving guns within the reach of a child.

Yes, you're likely correct. Common sense in adults doesn't seem to have been around for little shooter Doe.

 

[MyBelle]

Yes, you're likely correct. Common sense in adults doesn't seem to have been around for little shooter Doe.

Which is why his mother has been charged.