VA - Amy Bradley - missing from cruise ship, Curacao - 1998 #3

[avob00]

So then it must be an extraordinary concidence that another man, sitting on his own, pointed towards the girls, has a habit of following female customers around and happened to be there, looking very much like him, even down to the black shirt again, etc. Just the way Yellow was known to do.

also: May I know why you put skin color in bold?

I think a lot of people online feel he is targeting skin colour due to the post about Scientology specifically stating two black women. Yellow being black etc.

We’re not allowed to discuss it here but I would advise reading through Brad’s replies on X from before all of this month’s content. You’ll have to do a bit of scrolling to get to them as he’s posted a lot in the last few days.

All of the comments are quite nasty and bitter towards gender and LGBT. Mocking people’s appearances as well.

 

[Sweetluv]

Just tossing this question out there...so Amy's shoes were found out on the balcony deck where she was last seen. Let's assume she did decide to leave the cabin room. Why would she change her shoes when the pair she was wearing was right there next to her? She didn't change the clothes she was dancing and sweating in , but would switch shoes?
Thoughts..?

 

[Chypre]

Just tossing this question out there...so Amy's shoes were found out on the balcony deck where she was last seen. Let's assume she did decide to leave the cabin room. Why would she change her shoes when the pair she was wearing was right there next to her? She didn't change the clothes she was dancing and sweating in , but would switch shoes?
Thoughts..?

From my own perspective I am lazy enough to go in to change my shirt leaving my shoes on the balcony then not wanting to go back out to get them because it would just be more possibility in waking the family.

 

[RandyMcDonald]

Ok so… we have to remember it was the 90s and the stereotypes of gay people at that time. A woman with hair that short absolutely would’ve been assumed to be a lesbian upon seeing her (today I feel like many cis het women have haircuts like that and of course there are many more non binary people who are out, but in the 90s it was a “tell”)

In the trafficker’s minds, taking a lesbian may be a “cover” because who would possibly think (again in the rather homophobic 90s) that a lesbian would be taken for ST?

I’m not saying I fully support this theory, if she was ST it very well could’ve been absolutely nothing to do with her perceived sexuality. But I’m also not entirely discounting how a trafficker might think and why they might see a rationale for targeting a lesbian

MOO

Presuming the existence of a sophisticated operation that not only targets American tourists for abduction as sex slaves, but goes after people who operatives might think are lesbian, seems to me to be a really big leap.

Do we have any evidence that this ring exists in Curacao, anything at all?

I had shared a trafficking report earlier from the US State Department. We know who gets trafficked into the sex trade: Poor women from adjacent countries in the Caribbean basin, usually Hispanic (Colombia, Venezuela, Dominican Republic, etc) and sometimes Haitians.

What, exactly, would be the point of abducting an American tourist? It would be an operation for no particular reason--Amy was attractive but not the stunning beauty that her parents imagine her to be; she was normal--with potentially huge negative consequences, all for no obvious gain.

(I would also suggest that her parents' statements that she was beautiful, so desirable as to become a target for sex slavery, now reads like a tell. These statements are a continued denial of Amy's sexual orientation, a restatement of their belief that of course she cannot be lesbian, that she is attractive to men.)

I would also add that if, by any chance, there actually was an abduction of Amy, she did not live long past the abduction. Whether she was attacked on the ship or whether she made it somehow onto the mainland early in the morning to buy drugs, she did not live long after. The idea that she was kept captive and shuttled around the Caribbean for years ... Why would they expose themselves to such risk?

I am reminded of the Sodder parents insisting that their abducted children had been kept alive long after the fire. What would be the point of the abductors continuing to expose themselves to such risk? The only scenario that I can come up with, as I mentioned earlier, is that the children were not abducted but rescued, that they did not want to return to their home for whatever reason. (This, I emphasize, is not a scenario that I believe was the case with the Sodder family, which seems to have been a normal large family.) What possible reason would Amy have to stay loyal to the people who were raping her in a foreign country?

 

[RandyMcDonald]

I think a lot of people online feel he is targeting skin colour due to the post about Scientology specifically stating two black women. Yellow being black etc.

We’re not allowed to discuss it here but I would advise reading through Brad’s replies on X from before all of this month’s content. You’ll have to do a bit of scrolling to get to them as he’s posted a lot in the last few days.

All of the comments are quite nasty and bitter towards gender and LGBT. Mocking people’s appearances as well.

I would suggest that a lot of this scenario does rest on the assumption of the Caribbean basin as not only foreign but dangerous, with white women particularly being targeted for sexual violence.

Dutch Caribbean Remains a High-Risk Route for Venezuelan Migrants

In the Dutch Caribbean, criminal groups controlling lucrative human smuggling and trafficking routes take advantage of Venezuelan migrants.

insightcrime.org

Technical Difficulties

This misrepresents, badly, the actual dynamics of human trafficking in the Caribbean and in Curaçao, specifically not least by passing over the reality that other groups of people than white North Americans are actually the prime target, and that the victims are usually recruited not by bold abductions from their homes but rather by more subtle routes.

 

[elle neirbo]

Detective moon, you have picked up on the stickiest wicket of this mystery, and one that confounds many. People do go “missing” on cruise ships, but it’s usually eventually attributed to some variety of overboard incident. Why Amy. And why from a cruise ship? It certainly doesn’t seem to be a common occurrence for someone to be trafficked that way.

There’s been MUCH discussion over the years about this, but this is what I’ve come up with. No doubt, better thinkers and better sleuthers than I can come up with more.

Why not on a cruise ship? Much trafficking and sex tourism goes on throughout the Caribbean. Perhaps it was simply because someone who worked on the ship came into contact with a group doing this, and saw an opportunity to make some $. There is little security on the ship, very few security cameras (and an employee would know where those are and aren’t located). It’s an atmosphere of “escape”, “letting one’s hair down”, and partying in general. Tons and tons of mixing with strangers and free flowing alcohol. Most people aren’t “on guard” on a cruise.

How easy would it be to slip something into someone’s drink, then get them down a staff elevator in the wee hours of the morning, put them in a laundry cart, band equipment case, etc., and get them off the ship via a staff gangway. Certainly, staff and laundry aren’t mixing with the well dressed cliente as they embark/disembark.

Also, there’s been talk that certain staff at RC were linked to AAV. I’m not sure why that would surprise anybody. Look at the character of the cruise director. I highly doubt any of the staff are vetted in depth for character.

At the end of the day, anyone, anywhere can be kidnapped and trafficked and if you look long enough, you’ll see that there are many examples of middle class, ordinary women becoming victims to it. Layer onto that the lack of security on cruise ships and billion dollar industry out to protect its image, and you have what many are trying to blow the whistle on, which is a situation rife for crime without consequences. It’s hard, though, as the billions in the industry can simply crush those who go up against them.

Human, sex, child trafficking is obviously a money motivated ‘scheme’, and is attractive to those who have less money, in poorer countries , or for those who are unhinged and sociopathic.
In addition, it could be a money earner for who are at risk of harm for whatever reason.

You can’t put a price on a person, but people are sold, and often sold to wealthy people or PIMPs.
Those who initially groom and smuggle are at the bottom of the food chain. They’re providing the ‘goods’ for a small amount while the person is pimped out, they often are told that they have to pay for the food they’re given, and the mattress / floor they sleep on… so they’re forever in debt with said person.

The reason for Yellow possibly committing a kidnap for sex purposes, Could be :
money motivated,
He is in debt,
There is a risk to his or families life,
or, it’s simply an easy money maker.

 

[TizerisT]

Do we have any evidence that this ring exists in Curacao, anything at all?

Well we know AAV were on the prowl in that area and timeframe already, so yes there is.

What, exactly, would be the point of abducting an American tourist? It would be an operation for no particular reason--Amy was attractive but not the stunning beauty that her parents imagine her to be; she was normal--with potentially huge negative consequences, all for no obvious gain.

Some things get you a +1 in trafficking. And a caucasian female in her early 20's would have been quite a catch.

 

[333_OnlyHalfEvil]

Ok so… we have to remember it was the 90s and the stereotypes of gay people at that time. A woman with hair that short absolutely would’ve been assumed to be a lesbian upon seeing her (today I feel like many cis het women have haircuts like that and of course there are many more non binary people who are out, but in the 90s it was a “tell”)

In the trafficker’s minds, taking a lesbian may be a “cover” because who would possibly think (again in the rather homophobic 90s) that a lesbian would be taken for ST?

I’m not saying I fully support this theory, if she was ST it very well could’ve been absolutely nothing to do with her perceived sexuality. But I’m also not entirely discounting how a trafficker might think and why they might see a rationale for targeting a lesbian

MOO

Actually, short hair came in style around 1992 or 93 after the movies Single White Female and Ghost both had a female lead with short hair.

A lot of us girls still struggling with the permed mess that was late 80's hair, saw this and cut off our own and never looked back. Popular cuts at the time were the Chili Bowl, the Shag, and a stacked bob. None of these were associated with lesbians except maybe for a super short military cut or a spikey hairstyle.

Eventually the most popular short haircut for women evolved into the modern Pixie.

 

[RandyMcDonald]

Well we know AAV were on the prowl in that area and timeframe already, so yes there is.

Some things get you a +1 in trafficking. And a caucasian female in her early 20's would have been quite a catch.

AAV?

Why do you assume that there are not white people already in the Caribbean? There are plenty of them: Wikipedia's article on the subject points to any number of groups from across the islands.

White Caribbean people - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And that is without turning to nearby countries like Colombia and Venezuela, which were settled by Spanish migrants from Europe starting in the 16th century and have continued to receive large flows of migrants from Europe well into the 20th century.

If someone was looking for a white person who might be prostituted, they just would not have to turn to abducting random American tourists. There are millions of white people already in the Caribbean, most of them much more vulnerable than an American would be and carrying fewer risks, even if the sex traffickers wanted to directly abduct people which they rarely do.

 

[RandyMcDonald]

Human, sex, child trafficking is obviously a money motivated ‘scheme’, and is attractive to those who have less money, in poorer countries , or for those who are unhinged and sociopathic.
In addition, it could be a money earner for who are at risk of harm for whatever reason.

You can’t put a price on a person, but people are sold, and often sold to wealthy people or PIMPs.
Those who initially groom and smuggle are at the bottom of the food chain. They’re providing the ‘goods’ for a small amount while the person is pimped out, they often are told that they have to pay for the food they’re given, and the mattress / floor they sleep on… so they’re forever in debt with said person.

The reason for Yellow possibly committing a kidnap for sex purposes, Could be :
money motivated,
He is in debt,
There is a risk to his or families life,
or, it’s simply an easy money maker.

If you cannot put a price on a person, why abduct them?

Targeting Amy, who seems to have been a normal enough American, makes no sense, especially when the Caribbean basin is home to very large numbers of white women, many of whom being much more vulnerable to getting caught up in human trafficking than an American citizen.

Sex trafficking relies on a prior relationship. What often happens is that someone looking for a job is brought in contact with someone who promises them a good job in a new country, only to arrive there to find that they are actually being prostituted and that if they think of returning they or their family will suffer. Another common route is for a vulnerable young woman to be brought in contact with someone they think is their boyfriend, only to end up isolated and finding out that they have to help their boyfriend out by being prostituted.

These conditions do not apply to Amy. She already had a good job and plans for her return, and was not in debt. As someone who was lesbian, meanwhile, the odds that she would be receptive to a relationship with Yellow are pretty low.

You have only gotten abductions into sex trafficking networks in conditions of societal breakdown, for instance in the former Yugoslavia in the worst period of civil war, or in the Middle East with ISIS. It goes without saying that Curaçao in the late 1990s was not like any of these places. A woman like Amy, traveling with her family on a cruise ship destined to a perfectly stable place, is really low on the list of women who might be caught up in sex trafficking on Curaçao.

 

[RandyMcDonald]

One more thing I will say is that the parents' insistence that their daughter was uniquely attractive, so attractive that random men on the ship were approaching her or even so attractive that she was a prime target to be abducted into sex slavery, now reads very differently with the news of Amy's sexual orientation.

Lots of parents find it very hard to accept that their children are not straight, even when they are told this directly by them, even when they see the evidence (meeting girlfriends, for instance). A too-frequent reaction is to insist that of course they cannot be straight, just look at them, they are obviously attractive to the opposite sex, or at least they would be if they stopped presenting themselves that way. Don't wear those comfortable jogging pants and put on a nice dress, say. What the child thinks and has been telling them is not relevant; they know better.

Amy's parents never got past that stage. They never had a chance to: If Amy had been a bit luckier, she would have returned with them to the United States, gone off to her new home and new job, and started building a new adult life separate from them. They still seem weirdly, terribly, fixated on the idea that she was straight, at least straight enough to pass.

 

[TizerisT]

AAV?

Why do you assume that there are not white people already in the Caribbean?

I'm not assuming anything of the sort. i've spent quite a bit of time in the Caribean and I have known and met caucasians who's descendants settled there. But they are the minority in probably all of those islands.
But nevertheless, what I said is true. Which all is dependant on mens personal tastes.

And your question about why not a local white woman? They would be much harder to trick, having been born there and have local brothers, uncles, than a tourist from the US 'letting her hair down' and blowing caution to the wind.

 

[RandyMcDonald]

I'm not assuming anything of the sort. i've spent quite a bit of time in the Caribean and I have known and met caucasians who's descendants settled there. But they are the minority in probably all of those islands.
But nevertheless, what I said is true. Which all is dependant on mens personal tastes.

It is just not true that there are not plenty of white women in the Caribbean basin, including many in much more vulnerable positions than Amy. She hardly represented a commodity so scarce that she had to be kidnapped.

Can you point to any cases of this happening anywhere in the Caribbean but especially in the ABC islands, of white tourists being abducted into the slave trade?

 

[crussell821]

Yes, there are many a case of kidnapping victims that are found alive and with children resulting from previous rapes (Room, the book and movie, were inspired by Elisabeth Fritzl's horrible ordeal).

This was never about what it would be a happy ending for the victim. They would always have to live with some unimaginable trauma. This was about the possibilities entertained by the family. You might not be hoping for the grandchildren you never had if you're picturing these grandchildren being produces of the hypothetical violence your daughter is being subjected to. But people react differently to cope.

The family is stuck in time. They preserve Amy's car believing she'll be eager to drive it when she comes back home. I feel for them. They're not considering that if Amy ever comes home, she won't be the same person they knew 27 years ago. Her priority would hardly be driving that same car again.

The grandchildren thing really bothered me. Her mother smiling at the thought of her lesbian daughter creating children through rape was…odd. MOO

 

[TizerisT]

There has been numerous cases of tourists going missing in similar circumstances. How can I tell how many of them were trafficked? You can't. It's a shady, out of view business by it's nature, not helped by cops on kick-backs, a 'snitches get stitches' culture and water everywhere.
As I already mentioned, I presume you've seen the AAV website and seen the looks on the girls faces on those, which tells us a hell of a lot regarding that whole operation.

 

[RandyMcDonald]

There has been numerous cases of tourists going missing in similar circumstances.

Name some.

How can I tell how many of them were trafficked? You can't. It's a shady, out of view business by it's nature, not helped by cops on kick-backs and a 'snitches get stitches' culture.

If you have no idea how you can actually prove this, does it make any more sense than me talking about invisible pink elephants in my room?

As I already mentioned, I presume you've seen the AAV website and seen the looks on the girls faces on those, which tells us a hell of a lot regarding that whole operation.

What does that mean? That is the awkwardness of adult actors; James Renner has already IDed one.

 

[Sweetluv]

The grandchildren thing really bothered me. Her mother smiling at the thought of her lesbian daughter creating children through rape was…odd. MOO

My take on that was..IF Amy is still alive and has children from force, the mother is speaking to Amy, saying dont feel ashamed and think you can't contact us in fear we will reject your children. We will be accepting of our grandchildren. I believe she fears Amy would be afraid to reach out knowing how the children were conceived and the mom is reassuring her its ok.

 

[MesquiteO21]

Lots of women had short hair like this in the 90s. However it was more of a mom-cut and a little more unusual on a 23 year old. But it wasn’t an automatic “lesbian” haircut… I’d say it’s more so thought of as that *today* if anything

huh, i guess we have different experiences and viewpoints. from my experience it definitely was a "lesbian" haircut back then, and i find that nowadays especially with Gen Z there's no stereotypical "gay look" for either men or women.

MOO

 

[Radial Loop]

I am not saying "sex trafficking" does not exist. But I don't understand how any rational person can look at the totality of the evidence/circumstances/ and cast of characters involved with this disappearance and arrive at the conclusion this individual was abducted.

 

[avob00]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1947069484012871840

I’m struggling to follow the timeline.

Amy was dating Tom and had plans to see David Letterman in NY when she returned home. He was in love with her but she supposedly didn’t feel the same intensity.

But Amy had met Molly at her apartment and had plans to meet and reconcile when she returned from the cruise. Amy had sent her a postcard and this is proven from the documentary that they were in contact at the time of the cruise.

So Amy was seeing and romantically involved with both Tom and Molly?

I also hate the use of the word “alternating preferences” in his earlier post. The word is sexual orientation!! This is such a common misconception - that a woman will be left for a man by a bisexual. There are many bisexuals who lean more towards women than men for various reasons and vice versa.