VA - Amy Bradley - missing from cruise ship, Curacao - 1998 #3

[Quill]

They did not raise her sexual orientation, at all, because doing so would have detracted from their representation of Amy as a perfect daughter with no problems.

Finding out that Amy actually had significant problems with her parents over her sexual orientation, perhaps resulting in a pattern of problem drinking that was noted by her peers at college, adds a lot of context. Things were not OK with Amy.

I do feel sorry for Amy's family. Had she been luckier, they would have been able to evolve over time, hopefully coming to accept their daughter for who she was. Their reaction to her coming out was harmful, but not as bad as it could have been. I could see change coming.

Amy's disappearance stopped that process. They remain trapped in that moment, her brother remaining single and childless, her parents polishing up her Mazda Miata, everyone insisting the most unlikely of conspiracies simultaneously vast and short-sighted has been keeping Amy alive just beyond reach.

You are stating many ideas as fact, such as Amy's parent's actions and state of mind. Are these things you know because you know these people or are these notions Just Your Own Opinion? JMO

 

[MesquiteO21]

Sex trafficking - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Sex Trafficking - Canada.ca

Sex trafficking exploits vulnerable people into performing sexual acts for the profit of others. Learn how to recognize and safely report signs of suspicious activity.

www.canada.ca

Think. Why would it make sense for sex traffickers to go after someone they saw had strong social connections with their family? Even if they wanted for some unaccountable reason to carry out an abduction from a cruise ship, why would they not at least have the sense to target a solo traveller?


That is not an answer. How would Amy, who is an abductee, be smuggled from one country's jurisdiction into another? And why would they ever let her outside?


And that means nothing. There are plenty of white people in the Caribbean basin, lots on the islands and more in the mainland, in much worse positions than an American tourist traveling with her family. There is just no shortage of whites, and no reason to think Amy was so obviously desirable that someone would think it a great idea to kidnap her.


The quality of evidence being provided could be used to prove that I have a twin who was separated from me at birth and raised in Brazil. I actually have a high-quality digital photograph, even: The case is stronger.

That is not an answer. How would Amy, who is an abductee, be smuggled from one country's jurisdiction into another?

yes, it is. Human smuggling exists and criminals have absolutely smuggled captives across and within countries by various methods -- cars, boats, etc.

as far the whole victim profile thing, yes for sure there is an obvious disparity in the profile of the women who are most likely to be targeted. Indigenous and Black women who have or currently are experiencing abuse, addiction, homelessness, poverty make up the great majority of victims. However, the statistics are still not at 100% and we would be remiss to think that a woman not falling into those categories is completely safe from it.

From the Homeland Security website on At Risk populations:
There is no single profile of a human trafficking victim because traffickers are willing to exploit anyone who can earn them a profit regardless of age, sex, socioeconomic background, nationality, or immigration status.

Human Trafficking Quick Facts | Homeland Security

Quick facts about human trafficking which is the crime of compelling a person to provide labor or services, or to engage in commercial sex acts.

www.dhs.gov

hey maybe you do have a long lost twin, that would certainly make your life interesting i'd imagine

MOO

 

[RandyMcDonald]

i get that. i'm just wondering if any neighboring cabins heard a scream or something? i would think she would scream if falling. or anything like that which maybe would lean that way

Her father did hear something that made him immediately fear for Amy's safety and start a search. He may not have processed it, but it did trigger him.

 

[RandyMcDonald]

You are stating many ideas as fact, such as Amy's parent's actions and state of mind. Are these things you know because you know these people or are these notions Just Your Own Opinion? JMO

We know their actions: They were very clear in only raising any statements about Amy's sexual orientation when they had to for the documentary, we know from her girlfriends that they were unhappy, and we know from her brother that they are still trying to downplay it.

We also know that they should be regarded with more than the usual suspicion. They were, I remind you, found guilty of lying in a court of law.

 

[RandyMcDonald]

That is not an answer. How would Amy, who is an abductee, be smuggled from one country's jurisdiction into another?

yes, it is. Human smuggling exists and criminals have absolutely smuggled captives across and within countries by various methods -- cars, boats, etc.

as far the whole victim profile thing, yes for sure there is an obvious disparity in the profile of the women who are most likely to be targeted. Indigenous and Black women who have or currently are experiencing abuse, addiction, homelessness, poverty make up the great majority of victims. However, the statistics are still not at 100% and we would be remiss to think that a woman not falling into those categories is completely safe from it.

We know that Amy is almost the exact opposite of the preferred victims. She did not belong to a group at elevated risk, for instance. Whatever problems she has with her family, she was visibly not disconnected from them, even on the cruise. The idea that she might have been interested in Yellow now looks really unlikely since her Amy's sexual orientation is clear. She was not poor, with a home and a career lined up, so a sojourn on Curaçao makes no sense. Most obviously, she was neither inside a conflict zone nor was she a refuge fleeing conflict.

The only thing that would have made Amy less likely to be a victim would have been being at home.

From the Homeland Security website on At Risk populations:
There is no single profile of a human trafficking victim because traffickers are willing to exploit anyone who can earn them a profit regardless of age, sex, socioeconomic background, nationality, or immigration status.

Right. There is just no reason to think that Amy would turn a profit, that the costs involved with abducting a random American tourist, instead of waiting for some poor local to come by, would be worth the effort and the attention.

hey maybe you do have a long lost twin, that would certainly make your life interesting i'd imagine

MOO

Yeah, for that to happen then quite a few things about my life, including my birth certificate, would need to be fabricated. It makes much more sense to assume that I have a look-alike on another continent.

As they say, when you hear hooves, count on horses not zebras

 

[TizerisT]

Her father did hear something that made him immediately fear for Amy's safety and start a search. He may not have processed it, but it did trigger him.

Thats not true either - something woke him up, sure, but thats not a cause for concern on its own, these large ships have all manner of potential sources of disturbance, it was Amy no longer being there that made him worry. <modsnip: Discuss the post, not the poster>

 

[RandyMcDonald]

Thats not true either - something woke him up, sure, but thats not a cause for concern on its own, these large ships have all manner of potential sources of disturbance, it was Amy no longer being there that made him worry. <modsnip: Discuss the post, not the poster>

<modsnip: Quoted post was modsnipped> ... He woke up, by his own account, and instead of assuming that social butterfly Amy was just somewhere else in the cruise ship, immediately began to look fearing the worst.

Why did he assume that? What did he hear? Alternatively or perhaps additionally, did he know something that made him fear for Amy?

 

[Quill]

For thirty years?

Things would be different if they were provably OK with Amy being lesbian, but the evidence were have suggests that they were not. We have the nasty letter her father sent to her girlfriend, and we have her brother's belated attempts to portray her as straight enough at least to have a boyfriend.

They have been covering things up because it was inconvenient for their story. I would note, again, that this is something that they have been found guilty of doing in court.

BBM
Do we have a "nasty" letter as evidence? That implies you know the specific contents first hand. I haven't read that letter, have you? Stating that it's a "nasty" letter as fact when you haven't read it is interesting and loose with facts. They didn't hide anything. It was there all along.

As far court, they went up against a major corporation that had endless backing and that situation is way more complicated and distorted than you make it seem. Wording matters here. They were not found guilty of anything in court. They filed lawsuits against a company and their claims were not upheld in court. Since you are asserting the family was found "guilty" of lying in court, can you tell us what exactly they lied about? What were their penalties?

 

[RandyMcDonald]

Do we have a "nasty" letter as evidence? That implies you know the specific contents first hand. I haven't read that letter, have you? Stating that it's a "nasty" letter as fact when you haven't read it is interesting and loose with facts. They didn't hide anything. It was there all along.

As far court, they went up against a major corporation that had endless backing and that situation is way more complicated and distorted than you make it seem.

Her girlfriend had tears in her eyes when talking about it. I think we are entitled to believe that this was not a kind letter welcoming her to the family. Her college friends who noted that her family's reaction to her coming out hurt Amy can also be noted.

Meanwhile, choosing to lie under oath is court is a transparently bad idea, especially if you are fighting a hard fight. Why do that? One reason might be that you are so committed to a particular story that you are willing to do and say whatever it takes to back it up.

 

[TizerisT]

Yes and I would assume [and hope] that most parents would get worried that their child was suddenly gone at 6am too. I know my mother would have. Even if they thought maybe she grabbed a coffee or whatever, you don't leave it to chance - you start searching immediately

 

[RandyMcDonald]

Yes and I would assume [and hope] that most parents would get worried that their child was suddenly gone at 6am too. I know my mother would have. Even if they thought maybe she grabbed a coffee or whatever, you don't leave it to chance - you start searching immediately

This is one thing that I see too often on the true crime community, the assumption that there is only one way to react to something and that any other way is pathological or even a sign of guilt.

Why didn't he assume that she was elsewhere on the ship, perhaps trying to walk things off? What made him assume the worst as soon as he opened his eyes?

One possibility is that he was awoken by something disturbing.

Another possibility is that he knew that Amy was unhappy and was trying to keep watch.

There are others, of course, including wholly innocent ones.

 

[TizerisT]

Why didn't he assume that she was elsewhere on the ship, perhaps trying to walk things off? What made him assume the worst as soon as he opened his eyes?

Quite likely he did think 'she's probably just gone to do X, or popped off to get Y' but that is far from having peace of mind about it. Especially being so far from home and last seen on the balcony, all manner of questions would race through your head.

 

[EspressoBean]

I'm not sure what disclosing Amy's sexual orientation would mean to this case as many are talking about parents "hiding" this. DId they hide it or they just didn't share it. I have never heard other cases that someone openly identifies their family member as being straight. Her being gay isn't a disorder that I think needed to be disclosed. She had come out. It had caused tension in her family and it was also reported that she was very close to her family. Her sexual orientation was hers to disclose to those that she wanted to know.
There is not evidence that she jumped or was pushed. Falling overboard isn't easily done, particularly for someone that had some anxiety about the ocean. The evidence definitely counters the idea of someone connected with her family that she would do this intentionally on their family vacation on a ship let alone with no note or goodbye.
Sex traficking is very real. It doesn't just happen to those hard on their luck. Coercion and control are things that many don't understand. There is a lot of evidence here that supports that in this case.
IMHO, of course.

 

[Bluebear15]

Yes and I would assume [and hope] that most parents would get worried that their child was suddenly gone at 6am too. I know my mother would have. Even if they thought maybe she grabbed a coffee or whatever, you don't leave it to chance - you start searching immediately

She was 23 not 3. Imo it's strange to automatically assume that something nefarious had happened to their adult daughter just because she wasn't in the cabin.
Jmo

 

[RandyMcDonald]

Quite likely he did think 'she's probably just gone to do X, or popped off to get Y' but that is far from having peace of mind about it. Especially so far from home.

Perhaps.

One thing we now know—one thing that the family did not tell us, perhaps because they were embarrassed, perhaps because they did not want it to be important—is that Amy was actually unhappy, largely because of her family. Even if the father disagreed with Amy's reasons—why couldn't she just be straight—he would surely be aware of that. He was already primed to fear

 

[bestill]

Okay, I wasnt aware of the Netflix series about Amy. Watched it, and noticed that the Scientology wasnt mentioned unless I missed it. Interesting.

First time I heard about the IP addresses. That's interesting... But!

Re: IP addresses info during significant dates: Not believing that Amy is sending signals to her family - possibly hoax (recalling the WD who sent the hoax message in the Brian S case).

Sightings of Amy: Not credible- recall the WD who claimed to have seen Jennifer K in the jewelry store.

Not putting much creditability into witness sightings.

People are cruel and like to associate themselves into a high-profile case.

The small timeline of 5:40 am to 6:00 am speaks volumes and most likely she fell overboard.

I am so sorry for Amy’s family and all her loved ones. I cant imagine their pain. I support them in their quest to find Amy, to get answers.

All of this is an opinion and of course subject to change depending on new information.

BBM - good point, additionally if her dad were awake around 5:30-5:40am wouldn't he have heard her come into the room from the balcony and leave their room between that time and 6:00? JMO

 

[TizerisT]

One thing we now know is that Amy was actually unhappy

I don't think we do know that at all. She had just got a new job, new apartment, new dog, had love interests and was on a wonderful cruise dancing the night away.
She had a lot to be happy about. I'm not saying she was problem-free (who is?) but I don't subscribe to this idea that her family had been so bad to her that she was depressed. In fact I see quite the opposite.

 

[Quill]

Her girlfriend had tears in her eyes when talking about it. I think we are entitled to believe that this was not a kind letter welcoming her to the family. Her college friends who noted that her family's reaction to her coming out hurt Amy can also be noted.

Meanwhile, choosing to lie under oath is court is a transparently bad idea, especially if you are fighting a hard fight. Why do that? One reason might be that you are so committed to a particular story that you are willing to do and say whatever it takes to back it up.

You can believe anything you like but it still is not a fact unless you have read that letter. You can't cherry pick who you believe and who you don't. You choose not believe witnesses thatI am entitled to believe. Her college friends stay in touch with the family, also noted by some in the doc.

Read up on the court case. Lying under oath wasn't the issue. The details of that admonishment from the court wasn't over lying. It was more complicated than that.

 

[RandyMcDonald]

I'm not sure what disclosing Amy's sexual orientation would mean to this case as many are talking about parents "hiding" this. DId they hide it or they just didn't share it. I have never heard other cases that someone openly identifies their family member as being straight. Her being gay isn't a disorder that I think needed to be disclosed. She had come out. It had caused tension in her family and it was also reported that she was very close to her family. Her sexual orientation was hers to disclose to those that she wanted to know.

Her parents hiding this, simply because they wanted to present and preserve their image of their perfect child, is indeed a red flag that things were not all right.

Learning that Amy, far from being perfectly happy, was actually deeply unhappy with her family over her coming out makes sense. It explains a pattern of problem drinking at college that her parents may have missed or else ignored, and that may plausibly have contributed to Amy's fate. Choosing not to talk about that might have saved them embarrassment but did not help them find Amy.

There is not evidence that she jumped or was pushed. Falling overboard isn't easily done, particularly for someone that had some anxiety about the ocean. The evidence definitely counters the idea of someone connected with her family that she would do this intentionally on their family vacation on a ship let alone with no note or goodbye.

Amy may have been anxious be she was still on that cruise.

I think an accident much more likely than a suicide, FWIW. I suppose it might be possible that she was so angry with her family she wanted them to suffer as she did, but we do not need to believe this for the fall scenario. Drunk people can have accidents. Maybe she was trying to vomit over the side?

Sex traficking is very real. It doesn't just happen to those hard on their luck. Coercion and control are things that many don't understand. There is a lot of evidence here that supports that in this case.
IMHO, of course.

Amy was demonstrably among the least likely candidates for grooming. She was not from a poor community, she had her family around her, she would not have been responsive to grooming, etc.

Beyond that, assuming that she was taken by a conspiracy that was both capable enough to make an unprecedented abduction and careless enough to let her go out for outings in public and yet sympathetic enough to let her live even though her very existence was a mortal threat is, all said, pretty transparently a contrivance to create a scenario where Amy is still alive. The only other option allowing that wuld be the idea that she just decided to get off at Curaçao and live a new life as an illegal immigrant away from her family, and her parents and brother seem never to have voiced this because this scenario would burst their image of Amy being happy.

 

[annemc2]

I'm not sure what disclosing Amy's sexual orientation would mean to this case as many are talking about parents "hiding" this. DId they hide it or they just didn't share it. I have never heard other cases that someone openly identifies their family member as being straight. Her being gay isn't a disorder that I think needed to be disclosed. She had come out. It had caused tension in her family and it was also reported that she was very close to her family. Her sexual orientation was hers to disclose to those that she wanted to know.
There is not evidence that she jumped or was pushed. Falling overboard isn't easily done, particularly for someone that had some anxiety about the ocean. The evidence definitely counters the idea of someone connected with her family that she would do this intentionally on their family vacation on a ship let alone with no note or goodbye.
Sex traficking is very real. It doesn't just happen to those hard on their luck. Coercion and control are things that many don't understand. There is a lot of evidence here that supports that in this case.
IMHO, of course.

Just sort of adding to your post, EB - Human trafficking, as shown in definitions in previous posts, does not necessarily include sexual exploitation. Member FindAmy, who was a VI on this site, strongly intimated that Amy was "recruited" for some other purpose. Something more out of the box. So removing discussions her of sexuality, an intentional or accidental fall off of the ship, or forced prostitution what would something...else look like? Some sort of role in this whole operation that doesn't include Amy being used as your run of the mill sex worker? (that last bit felt so awful to type but ykwim)