VA - Amy Bradley - missing from cruise ship, Curacao - 1998 #3

[Quill]

She was 23 not 3. Imo it's strange to automatically assume that something nefarious had happened to their adult daughter just because she wasn't in the cabin.
Jmo

We have traveled a good bit with our adult kids in their late 20's. We all look out for each other in this way. Texting and phones make this all much easier these days as compared to back in the 90's. If my family had awakened and found anyone of us gone when it didn't make sense, whether it be one of the young adults or one of the parents, we would have gone to look for them. The panic wouldn't set in until you can't find them over and over again. It's highly likely (JMO) that her dad didn't jump to anything nefarious until he looked for her where it made sense to find her. When he couldn't locate her, the more he looked the more he became worried. These are basic human reactions. All JMO.

 

[TizerisT]

Right. The thing is, Curaçao is a Western country, a self-governing component country of the Kingdom of the Netherlands. It is a politically stable regional financial and industrial centre with high piving standards for its population, progressing steadily over the generations towards full self-government. It is as Western as Hawaii, or Puerto Rico, or Guadeloupe.

There are some destinations in the Caribbean that might make the abduction scenario more likely. Haiti has been an occasional port of call for some cruise ships in better times—look up Labadee. But Amy was on a cruise ship heading to one of the most stable and secure destinations in the Caribbean, not even having gotten there before her disappearance. Curaçao is just not a dangerous island territory where Westerners have to fear for their lives, and Amy's American citizenship would in itself have protected her from the marginalization that actually sex trafficked women from elsewhere in the Caribbean basin face.

The thing is, in those places the difference to being in a tourist resort or on the main road, to being in a non-touristy neighbourhood two roads away is huge. You have to know where the safe zone is, and that safe zone may not be very big. And it's not as stable and western as you may think. Cops routinely walk around with their hands open for money from local guys, and cops and gangs are intertwined.

 

[RandyMcDonald]

The thing is, in those places the difference to being in a tourist resort or on the main road, to being in a non-touristy neighbourhood two roads away is huge. You have to know where the safe zone is, and that safe zone may not be very big. And it's not as stable and western as you may think. Cops routinely walk around with their hands open for money from local guys, and cops and gangs are intertwined.

That might be meaningful if she had actually gotten to Curaçao, but she did not. The cruise ship was at least an hour from port when she disappeared.

So, we are presuming not only a conspiracy that is at once so powerful as to kidnap a woman surrounded by her family from a cruise ship and so soft-hearted as to let her live for years afterwards in public, but one that is able to actually work at a distance from a politically stable island that has the normal sorts of human trafficking problems that well-off countries have. All of this, for a perfectly normal-looking American woman.

I ask you: How is any of this likely?

 

[TizerisT]

Just to clear up yesterdays uncertainty about who or when regarding this

 

[RandyMcDonald]

View attachment 603056
Just to clear up yesterdays uncertainty about who or when regarding this

So, while they were publicly searching for Amy, someone who had a passing familiarity with them heard about this and responded with polite words.

What is this supposed to demonstrate?

 

[Salah11]

View attachment 603056
Just to clear up yesterdays uncertainty about who or when regarding this

I still think he could have murdered her in his room that AM after sexual advances were rejected.

 

[TizerisT]

The cruise ship was at least an hour from port when she disappeared.

Have you got a source for that? I was trying to find out more specifics about that timeframe

 

[TizerisT]

So, while they were publicly searching for Amy, someone who had a passing familiarity with them heard about this and responded with polite words.

What is this supposed to demonstrate?

Are you just going to skip over the "First thing that morning before any announcements were made" part

 

[Bluebear15]

View attachment 603056
Just to clear up yesterdays uncertainty about who or when regarding this

I'm not sure why that was ever an issue. He was a member of staff and I'm sure things like this (gossip) spread like wildfire among staff. Jmo

 

[RandyMcDonald]

I still think he could have murdered her in his room that AM after sexual advances were rejected.

Something being done to her on the ship is the most likely thing to have happened to Amy after some sort of fall. It does not require a great conspiracy stretching across the Caribbean and decades of time. It just needs one person with evil intent who got lucky.

Note that the parents have not insisted on this. Why? This is not a scenario that is compatible with their daughter still being alive.

 

[RandyMcDonald]

Are you just going to skip over the "First thing that morning before any announcements were made" part

Expecting that people on a ship would not pay attention to something novel, like a search for a missing person, and that this gossip would not be spread, is a bit much.

Are you just going to skip over the "First thing that morning before any announcements were made" part

My bad. There were several hours between the discovery she was missing just after 5 and the end of the disembarkment at 7:50.

How is Curaçao supposed to have an organized crime network so ruthless and capable without anyone knowing about this, or anything like this happening before or after?

 

[Salah11]

Are you just going to skip over the "First thing that morning before any announcements were made" part

Why would he make such a stupid mistake?

 

[TizerisT]

But I'd like to see more about the docking time, if you can link that.

 

[Mica]

Right. The thing is, Curaçao is a Western country, a self-governing component country of the Kingdom of the Netherlands. It is a politically stable regional financial and industrial centre with high living standards for its population, progressing steadily over the generations towards full self-government. It is as Western as Hawaii, or Puerto Rico, or Guadeloupe.

There are some destinations in the Caribbean that might make the abduction scenario more likely. Haiti has been an occasional port of call for some cruise ships in better times—look up Labadee. But Amy was on a cruise ship heading to one of the most stable and secure destinations in the Caribbean, not even having gotten there before her disappearance. Curaçao is just not a dangerous island territory where Westerners have to fear for their lives, and Amy's American citizenship would in itself have protected her from the marginalization that actually sex trafficked women from elsewhere in the Caribbean basin face.

Perhaps Amy’s abduction had to do with the movement of drugs. Curaçao is not exempt from that trade.

Five Narcotics Traffickers Extradited From Curaçao to Face International Cocaine Distribution and Importation Charges​

“The defendants operated an international drug trafficking enterprise that for years funneled over one hundred kilograms of cocaine into the United States onboard cruise ships and commercial airliners, using an extensive network of corrupt airport employees,” stated United States Attorney Peace.

Five Narcotics Traffickers Extradited From Curaçao to Face International Cocaine Distribution and Importation Charges

“The defendants operated an international drug trafficking enterprise that for years funneled over one hundred kilograms of cocaine into the United States onboard cruise ships and commercial airliners, using an extensive network of corrupt airport employees,” stated United States Attorney Peace...

www.justice.gov

Italian Mafia Expanding Influence in Curaçao Through Local Crime Networks​

Italian Mafia Expanding Influence in Curaçao Through Local Crime Networks

Italian Mafia in Curacao

www.curacaochronicle.com

No Limit Soldiers​

No Limit Soldiers

The No Limit Soldiers (NLS) is a crime group that began as a small gang in Curaçao and became a player in the cocaine pipeline to Europe.

insightcrime.org

 

[RandyMcDonald]

The idea that something may have happened to Amy is still viable. Quite possibly there may be a predator then on the cruise ship who got away with murder.

We all need to be very cautious about great overarching conspiracies, ones which exist without any evidence or much obvious reason and which are at once super-competent and yet prone to flaws. This is especially the case if the conspiracy is being called into existence to justify the idea that the missing person is alive.

I have been raising the analogy of the Sodder children, similarly believed by their parents to be alive but hidden. The thing is, there actually are plausible scenarios where the children might have not bothered to contact their parents, most notably if they had been rescued from hypothetical abuse. This does not exist for Amy: Even if her relationship with her family was approaching a crisis point, she was literally on the edge of being fully independent and able to live her life in her own terms.

 

[RandyMcDonald]

Perhaps Amy’s abduction had to do with the movement of drugs. Curaçao is not exempt from that trade.

Five Narcotics Traffickers Extradited From Curaçao to Face International Cocaine Distribution and Importation Charges​

“The defendants operated an international drug trafficking enterprise that for years funneled over one hundred kilograms of cocaine into the United States onboard cruise ships and commercial airliners, using an extensive network of corrupt airport employees,” stated United States Attorney Peace.

Five Narcotics Traffickers Extradited From Curaçao to Face International Cocaine Distribution and Importation Charges

“The defendants operated an international drug trafficking enterprise that for years funneled over one hundred kilograms of cocaine into the United States onboard cruise ships and commercial airliners, using an extensive network of corrupt airport employees,” stated United States Attorney Peace...

www.justice.gov

Italian Mafia Expanding Influence in Curaçao Through Local Crime Networks​

Italian Mafia Expanding Influence in Curaçao Through Local Crime Networks

Italian Mafia in Curacao

www.curacaochronicle.com

No Limit Soldiers​

No Limit Soldiers

The No Limit Soldiers (NLS) is a crime group that began as a small gang in Curaçao and became a player in the cocaine pipeline to Europe.

insightcrime.org

Right. How exactly does this relate to Amy?

 

[Salah11]

Brad sat with her that morning and she wasn’t sick or acting out of character as he left willingly to go to bed. So zero Red Flags in other words.

So I just find it mind boggling people think he left her alone and she then decided to end her life.

 

[RandyMcDonald]

Brad sat with her that morning and she wasn’t sick or acting out of character as he left willingly to go to bed. So zero Red Flags in other words.

So I just find it mind boggling people think he left her alone and she then decided to end her life.

I do not think most people have been assuming suicide as the most likely option. An accident is more likely.

Also, what were they talking about? Do we have any idea? And, given the family's past history of misrepresentation, should we necessarily take anything not witnessed by another person as truth? I am skeptical that Amy's brother would admit that, for instance, they had a heart-wrenching talk about how hurt Amy was by her parents' rejection if he sexual orientation.

 

[K9Enzo]

I remember this being in the news when it first happened. I recently watched the Netflix series. Based on the verified timeline, I believe Amy never left the cabin after returning in the early morning hours. The most likely explanation is that she either fell accidentally or jumped from the balcony. There is no credible evidence supporting abduction or trafficking. To understand Amy’s true state of mind, you have to look beyond the parents and likely her brother as well. This is true in many missing persons cases. I also found the interview with FBI Special Agent Erin Sheridan disappointing. She offered little insight and seemed more focused on being careful with her words than providing clarity. It doesn't track for me that all options are on the table in this case. I did not find any witness statement to be credible. We also know that families of missing loved ones are often targeted by scams, and sometimes well-intentioned people create a memory based on news coverage or public attention. In my view, the family’s ongoing theories are speculation fueled by grief and desperation. It's sad and heartbreaking for them. IMO

 

[TizerisT]

Also, what were they talking about?

Apparently this was just a 5 minute conversation so probably normal smalltalk about the night.
In my notes I have 'staying on the balcony to get some fresh air' and 'possibly disembarking at Curacao to purchase cigarettes'