Identified! VA - Carroll Co., WhtMale, 4-7, UP99035, Winnie The Pooh Blanket, Sep'22 *Logan Nathaniel Bowman*

  • #21
I'm confused, if they do have DNA which they compared to Dulce, why they don't have any idea of biological sex, yet.

Maybe they did rule out Dulce on something else. Dentals, or a prior break, or something.
It could be that they have a partial DNA profile but not a full karyotype. Or they *do* have a full profile and know that this child was female, but this info hasn't been publicly released yet.

They could have also used dentals or a prior fracture. Dentals for kids this age are notoriously tricky, though.
 
  • #22
It could be that they have a partial DNA profile but not a full karyotype. Or they *do* have a full profile and know that this child was female, but this info hasn't been publicly released yet.

They could have also used dentals or a prior fracture. Dentals for kids this age are notoriously tricky, though.
Tricky, yes, but if, for example, Dulce, who was five when she disappeared, had one adult tooth, or had a filling in a baby tooth, and our little Winnie Doe had a full set of baby teeth, or no fillings/cavities, it would be an easy ruleout.

The other thing she might have had is a unique characteristic, like a tooth missing, or misshaped, or twisted in some way. I know my teeth would give me away in a heartbeat. I had great difficulty with all my first molars. Three of them, they had to be pulled, eventually, because they didn't go on their own. One of them the biting surface is deformed because of this. Another is slightly misaligned because the baby tooth refused to budge, so the adult tooth surfaced on the inside edge of my jaw, pointing toward my tongue, and it took a while to migrate up to close to aligned with the rest once the baby tooth was pulled. The fourth molar is still there. The baby tooth. I'm forty one. The adult tooth never grew beneath it, so I never lost it.
 
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  • #23
You have a good point, and Winnie Doe is a very cute nickname- I think I'll call this little one that too until they can get their name back.
I also had one of my baby teeth (a canine) that never came out on its own. The permanent tooth grew on top of it. I don't know if it would be noticeable now since I had the tooth pulled when I was in high school, right before I got braces.
 
  • #24
You have a good point, and Winnie Doe is a very cute nickname- I think I'll call this little one that too until they can get their name back.
I also had one of my baby teeth (a canine) that never came out on its own. The permanent tooth grew on top of it. I don't know if it would be noticeable now since I had the tooth pulled when I was in high school, right before I got braces.
I'll add that I lost both my front top teeth at the same time around age six, so it's definitely possible for a child to have 'distinctive' teeth.
 
  • #25
You have a good point, and Winnie Doe is a very cute nickname- I think I'll call this little one that too until they can get their name back.
I also had one of my baby teeth (a canine) that never came out on its own. The permanent tooth grew on top of it. I don't know if it would be noticeable now since I had the tooth pulled when I was in high school, right before I got braces.
Yeah, I think it's a good name because it's gender neutral. Winnie the Pooh was male, and Winnie is also short for Winifred, a girl's name. So, it doesn't matter what gender Winnie Doe turns out to be, because the name will still fit.
 
  • #26
It could be that they have a partial DNA profile but not a full karyotype. Or they *do* have a full profile and know that this child was female, but this info hasn't been publicly released yet.

They could have also used dentals or a prior fracture. Dentals for kids this age are notoriously tricky, though.
Karyotype is just an image of chromosomes to rule out things like trisomy/monosomy and obvious structural abnormalities (not trying to be nit-picky just clarifying that karyotype is not what any laboratory uses to compare samples for matches)
 
  • #27
The "circumstances of recovery" section on the UID's NamUS profile consists of solely the following:

"Skeletal remains of a young child were found in a trash can in a wooded area."

What a sad epitaph to such a short (and most likely sorrowful) life.

The circumstances under which this body was located remind me of the Bear Brook murders. I hope for a quick resolution to this case, considering it seems as if this child has been deceased for a very long time already.
 
  • #28
Karyotype is just an image of chromosomes to rule out things like trisomy/monosomy and obvious structural abnormalities (not trying to be nit-picky just clarifying that karyotype is not what any laboratory uses to compare samples for matches)
I work in a cytogenetics lab. We do a lot of chromosomal testing on babies where the sex is unclear using karyotypes to determine if they're XX or XY (or XXY, X0, etc.). It would be done purely for sex determination, not for coparing against another DNA sample. I'm not sure if that's usually how sex determination is done on unidentified remains, though. That's just what I'm used to since that's what's used to determine sex in the field I work in :)
 
  • #29
I work in a cytogenetics lab. We do a lot of chromosomal testing on babies where the sex is unclear using karyotypes to determine if they're XX or XY (or XXY, X0, etc.). It would be done purely for sex determination, not for coparing against another DNA sample. I'm not sure if that's usually how sex determination is done on unidentified remains, though. That's just what I'm used to since that's what's used to determine sex in the field I work in :)
OH, my apologies, I completely misinterpreted your initial comment.
 
  • #30
It's okay! Looking back on it my original comment was worded a little strangely.
 
  • #31
No update on sex, no new exclusions. I really hope this case doesn't go cold. It's been 6 months.
 
  • #32
No update on sex, no new exclusions.
 
  • #33
No update on sex, no new exclusions.
 
  • #34
No update on sex, no new exclusions.
Could be possible they know the sex but are withholding it from the public bc of the sensitivity of the investigation?
 
  • #35
Awww, poor child!
They did not deserve their fate at all. It doesn’t mention any bones being missing. Maybe they can look at the pelvis. That’s a good way to telling the sex. Although I think it would be harder on a prepubescent child like this.

I think this child was a girl. This tends to be the case for babies and young kids. They seem to dress them in masculine or feminine attire depending on the gender.

This child was found with a flowery blanket. Most parents wouldn’t put flowery things with a baby boy. It’s a non-issue but of course it matters to parents.
 
  • #36
Sad. Hoping to get some more info.
 
  • #37
My gut still says this is Logan. The PMI would be off 15 years or so though.

 
  • #38
Could be possible they know the sex but are withholding it from the public bc of the sensitivity of the investigation?
It's possible, I suppose, but I don't know why the gender of a child would be such a crucial piece of information to withhold. I can understand why the cause of death and certain circumstances would be withheld, to screen legitimate tips from time wasters, but gender? It's often one of the only things we know besides a height and age range for a Doe.

MOO
 
  • #39
It's possible, I suppose, but I don't know why the gender of a child would be such a crucial piece of information to withhold. I can understand why the cause of death and certain circumstances would be withheld, to screen legitimate tips from time wasters, but gender? It's often one of the only things we know besides a height and age range for a Doe.

MOO
Yup. What a weird thing to withhold. OMG this child is a boy or a girl?! What sensitive info! Sarcasm obviously. I think they actually don’t know. It’s harder to tell on a prepubescent child.
 
  • #40
It's possible, I suppose, but I don't know why the gender of a child would be such a crucial piece of information to withhold. I can understand why the cause of death and certain circumstances would be withheld, to screen legitimate tips from time wasters, but gender? It's often one of the only things we know besides a height and age range for a Doe.

MOO
Maybe bc they're already circling in on a particular identity and want to avoid speculation/finger-pointing by specifying if its a boy or a girl.
 

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