VA - Couple & two teens found murdered, Farmville, 15 Sept 2009 #5

[AndresEscobar]

Also, judicial economy is always a goal in our justice system. Where consolidating a trial wont unduly burden a defendant, consolidation is correct.

The cost of having a first degree murder charge then the capital charges would be enormous. The second trial would essentially be a continuation of the first, as the prosecution has to prove that he premeditated at least two murders in that time span.

Your trial strategy is for the benefit of the prosecution. Therefore, if the prosecution moved to try this separately, and their reason was that it'll be easier for the prosecution, it should not be allowed.

 

[AndresEscobar]

well, that's okay, honey, because we love you

plus, i'd like to point out that "time out" is just what tapu said it was

Let me tell you: it's amazing the quality of discussion we have here. We all seem to be rational, level-headed, and respectful. Most of all, we're more interested in learning facts than taking in pleasure in alleged perps pain and suffering.

 

[AndresEscobar]

ITA!! I don't for the life of me know why some people think "Raz" is interesting/concerned/insightful or in any way deserving of respect. She DOES come across as immature and highly egocentric, which (imo) is putting it mildly. She is insulated- and, apparently, worshipped!! - within this pathetic SKR world and she is used to having her azz kissed because of her association with its "ruler".... uh... what's his name again? (seriously can't remember, sue me)-- imo, she is on a power trip to end all power trips and all of her 'underlings' are too retarded to point out that their "empress" is naked. If she truly had insight, she would be able to recognize that, some time down the road, her reign will end and she will be "persona non grata" within her own little culty circle of no-talent losers. If nothing else, someone may come along who is younger... sexier... and may actually be able to sing!!:twocents:

Sexier than Raz? I assure you, that would be impossible.

 

[tapu]

yeah, i've never had a thread grab me like this one either.

i dread the "fallow" periods of info we may have before the trial....

on the other hand, some of the side stuff that's been brought up could take some turns. the case you got your time out for, for example

 

[AndresEscobar]

yeah, i've never had a thread grab me like this one either.

i dread the "fallow" periods of info we may have before the trial....

on the other hand, some of the side stuff that's been brought up could take some turns. the case you got your time out for, for example

Theres a rumor that AB lied about going to a church function and went to a concert at some point before the murder. Someone in the AB thread hypothesized that it was SFTW, commenting that it would be crazy if both AB and Sam were at the same concert. This of course ignores the fact that the 15 year old AB would probably not be able to travel from MO to eastern MI under the guise of a church function.

 

[dangrsmind]

im hearing that a chick by the name of RAZAKEL? asked this kid SAM to kill these 2 poor girls because they slept with sicktanick after some concert they just had, anyone heard of this? supposedly Razakel is also a rapper that dates sickfaggot and is on SKR...and raps about the same stuff MAYBE worse then her counterpart sicktanick

http://sammccrosky.blogspot.com/2009/09/sam-mccrosky-aka-syko-sam-aka-lil-demon.html

I think this is where that rumor originated. I wonder if it was created by the cops to try to generate some buzz out of SKR. The wording is odd.

That blog was created by a well known Internet loon and troll "Mark Kropidlowski" that has made a number of other sites unrelated to this case, for example attacking Internet griefers "anonymous". Anything written there is highly suspect including everything in the comments section.

Also, a number of people in the scene including PiXy who is here from time to time have said this wasn't SickTanick's style. FWIW.

 

[dangrsmind]

Theres a rumor that AB lied about going to a church function and went to a concert at some point before the murder. Someone in the AB thread hypothesized that it was SFTW, commenting that it would be crazy if both AB and Sam were at the same concert. This of course ignores the fact that the 15 year old AB would probably not be able to travel from MO to eastern MI under the guise of a church function.

Is there any evidence she even had heard of SKR? (i.e. from links on her MySpace etc.)

 

[thesaint]

Sam's attorney has previously avoided pointless trials. Unless there is some evidence we don't know about or some sort of forensic chain of custody screw up, I can't imagine he thinks he can win this.

I know I could hit "teh google" and sort this out but if you or anyone else could provide the info: who is Sam's attorney? And will this person/team be his attorney for trial or is this just someone appointed for the prelim stages? thanks.

I'm heard in some jurisdictions that the defense attorneys in a capital(ol?) case are actually relatively high-dollar, otherwise private defense attorneys who are given considerable leeway in terms of billable hours and budget. I recall this only because there was some controversey over the awarding of the defense of these capital cases to cronies of elected officials.

 

[dangrsmind]

His attorney is Cary Bowen.

 

[AndresEscobar]

I know I could hit "teh google" and sort this out but if you or anyone else could provide the info: who is Sam's attorney? And will this person/team be his attorney for trial or is this just someone appointed for the prelim stages? thanks.

I'm heard in some jurisdictions that the defense attorneys in a capital(ol?) case are actually relatively high-dollar, otherwise private defense attorneys who are given considerable leeway in terms of billable hours and budget. I recall this only because there was some controversey over the awarding of the defense of these capital cases to cronies of elected officials.

He was appointed Cary Bowen and another attorney. This will probably be his for the long haul unless Bowen leaves the case. Keep in mind, this is probono work, so the expense will be coming out of public funds.

 

[AndresEscobar]

Is there any evidence she even had heard of SKR? (i.e. from links on her MySpace etc.)

none. There has been nothing about SKR or any other horror core artist. A lot of evidence hasn't been procured in the 10 threads that have covered the case. There has been some speculation that she liked ICP, but I think a lot of that has to do with a picture of her in clown make up (which was later revealed to be her halloween costume).

 

[thesaint]

Also, judicial economy is always a goal in our justice system. Where consolidating a trial wont unduly burden a defendant, consolidation is correct.

The cost of having a first degree murder charge then the capital charges would be enormous. The second trial would essentially be a continuation of the first, as the prosecution has to prove that he premeditated at least two murders in that time span.

Your trial strategy is for the benefit of the prosecution. Therefore, if the prosecution moved to try this separately, and their reason was that it'll be easier for the prosecution, it should not be allowed.

Simple, clear, direct--you can't be a lawyer!

As someone who appreciates economy in expression (but rarely practices it :waitasec you demonstrated the fail in my pro-separate trials argument in something like two twitters worth of words. :thumb:

Despite what seems like an obvious set of circumstances, the prosecution will have to be on the ball in Sam's trial. Building and supporting a narrative that long, with at least some of the physical evidence having become somewhat stale by the time the crime was discovered, will not be a simple slam-dunk. If the defense can catch the prosecution in even 1 mistake....reasonable doubt creeps in ("if the prosecution is wrong about this, maybe they are wrong about..."). And if as you're suggesting the judges in these cases tilt the table a bit toward the defense when making rulings on motions and letting evidence in...hats off to whomever prosecutes this case. Not an easy job at all.

 

[PAXIMUS]

PAX and I were involved in a meltdown in another thread. I'm not sure exactly why we were put in time out, but the gist is this: in the Alyssa Bustamante thread, one of the posters found a video made by a 16 year old girl on youtube basically asking people to stop attacking AB because she was mentally ill.

One of the posters in this forum basically said that this was a "tribute" video to AB, and encouraged the posters in that thread to flame and report the video. Apparently no one watched the video, because it wasn't a tribute at all.

Pax and I said this sixteen year old girl had every right to post the video and that adults on WS shouldn't be attacking a 16 year old girl via youtube, especially since she seems to have mental problems. There was some discussion about the first amendment and how the constitution should be re-written to make this illegal, lots of yelling, and lots of personal attacks about my career choice to be a defense attorney.

I was in touch with a mod throughout all of this and what I'm guessing happened is because the discussion got a bit out of hand, the mod just put us all on time out. I have not received a reason, though, but what I'm guessing is I'm not supposed to respond to personal attacks and just report it. Which is what I'll do from now on. I obviously respect the mod, as it was a bad situation and she made a good decision to just cut it down, but I missed being able to post here.

ETA: also, my tone is blunt, direct and doesn't translate to the internet well.

Yeap thats what happened but we are back and its over with. Good to be back!

 

[dangrsmind]

none. There has been nothing about SKR or any other horror core artist. A lot of evidence hasn't been procured in the 10 threads that have covered the case. There has been some speculation that she liked ICP, but I think a lot of that has to do with a picture of her in clown make up (which was later revealed to be her halloween costume).

That's what I figured. "Horrorcore Witch Hunt" in effect.

The majority of ICP fans seem to know nothing about SKR/WIR et al. This is still pretty deep underground stuff.

 

[thesaint]

His attorney is Cary Bowen.

This Cary Bowen?

http://www.lawyers.com/Virginia/Richmond/Cary-B-Bowen-1747343-a.html

Sorry, but he sounds like an ambulance chaser/settler/plea-bargainer, not a great trial attorney. Maybe he's better than I'm getting from that brief profile.

 

[dangrsmind]

This Cary Bowen?

http://www.lawyers.com/Virginia/Richmond/Cary-B-Bowen-1747343-a.html

Sorry, but he sounds like an ambulance chaser/settler/plea-bargainer, not a great trial attorney. Maybe he's better than I'm getting from that brief profile.

That's the man.

 

[PAXIMUS]

none. There has been nothing about SKR or any other horror core artist. A lot of evidence hasn't been procured in the 10 threads that have covered the case. There has been some speculation that she liked ICP, but I think a lot of that has to do with a picture of her in clown make up (which was later revealed to be her halloween costume).

AB also had the word "Woot" in her MS name, a term used commonly among ICP fans FWIW.

 

[AndresEscobar]

Simple, clear, direct--you can't be a lawyer!

As someone who appreciates economy in expression (but rarely practices it :waitasec you demonstrated the fail in my pro-separate trials argument in something like two twitters worth of words. :thumb:

Despite what seems like an obvious set of circumstances, the prosecution will have to be on the ball in Sam's trial. Building and supporting a narrative that long, with at least some of the physical evidence having become somewhat stale by the time the crime was discovered, will not be a simple slam-dunk. If the defense can catch the prosecution in even 1 mistake....reasonable doubt creeps in ("if the prosecution is wrong about this, maybe they are wrong about..."). And if as you're suggesting the judges in these cases tilt the table a bit toward the defense when making rulings on motions and letting evidence in...hats off to whomever prosecutes this case. Not an easy job at all.

Hey, I appreciate anyone who understands the legal world.

Your assessment about the defense strategy is correct: they will sit back and poke holes in everything they can (if the case goes to trial).

Its not necessarily that the judges tilt the table, is that you have to view everything under the lens that the defendant is innocent until proven guilty and the burden of proof is beyond a reasonable doubt. Also, since this is a capital case, the margin for error is less. So, more deference will be given to the defense.

 

[PAXIMUS]

This Cary Bowen?

http://www.lawyers.com/Virginia/Richmond/Cary-B-Bowen-1747343-a.html

Sorry, but he sounds like an ambulance chaser/settler/plea-bargainer, not a great trial attorney. Maybe he's better than I'm getting from that brief profile.

Some have said Bowen is one of the best CD lawyers in the state of VA...

 

[dangrsmind]

AB also had the word "Woot" in her MS name, a term used commonly among ICP fans FWIW.

I don't think so.

"Woot" is commonly used term indicating excitement, where as "woop woop" is the call of the Juggalo.

Not the same thing.