VA - Freshman daughter, mom 'good time drop off' outrages VA university

[katydid23]

Well that is not something that I have ever said. As far as I'm concerned both sexes can be guilty of sexual assault or rape. It's not possible to state categorically that the male is always at fault and the female isn't. It always depends on the facts of the case.


JMO if a man sexually assaults a drunk woman, the man is at fault even if the woman was responsible for her own intoxication. If a woman sexually assaults a drunk man, the woman is at fault even if the man was responsible for his own intoxication.

I think it's quite horrid for that quoted man to say that it's unjust that intoxicated rape victims are not held responsible for their assault.


It is a given that you will get drunk if you consume a lot of alcohol so getting drunk is your choice and you're responsible for that. Getting sexually assaulted is not an inevitable consequence of getting drunk. It's not your choice and you're not to blame for being a victim of assault. MOO.


That said, if both were equally drunk, incapable of genuine consent and unable to remember what happened but happened to have sex anyway, then it might end up being pointless for them to sue each other as nothing could be proven anyway. Sometimes it might sometimes be better just to assume it was more or less consensual and chalk it up as a learning experience not to get so drunk next time. Children are unable to consent to sex legally, but in many countries there's an age gap rule and if two children have sex, (being nearly the same age and neither has the power advantage over the other) it's not usually a crime. If two equally incapacitated adults have sex while neither has the edge over the other, maybe it could be thought as similar? Doesn't have to be a man and a woman, it could be two men, or two women, or more than two people.

I guess it depends on what the sexual act consisted of too. Is it two stupidly drunk people doing things mutually to each other or one person doing things to another who might have been unconscious and did not participate much or at all? Was one person more functional than another? Who penetrated whom? It's probably easier for a conscious man to have vaginal intercourse with an unconscious woman than the other way around so that could be partly why you get more of those allegations. Did anyone get hurt, forced or restrained? Was anyone manipulated into getting a more intoxicated state so that they could be more easily taken sexual advantage of?

JMO

"JMO if a man sexually assaults a drunk woman, the man is at fault even if the woman was responsible for her own intoxication. If a woman sexually assaults a drunk man, the woman is at fault even if the man was responsible for his own intoxication. "

I totally agree with the above statements. But what I have a problem with is the following:

A drunk couple has CONSENSUAL sex, and the males is accused of rape because a drunk female cannot consent. BUT WHY ISN'T THE FEMALE CHARGED SINCE THE MALE WAS DRUNK TOO? That is really biased and unfair, imo. Girls are not held responsible for their 'drunken decisions' but males are.



"I think it's quite horrid for that quoted man to say that it's unjust that intoxicated rape victims are not held responsible for their assault. "

I think he was trying to shock people to make a point. And I think it is a valid point. We do not hold drunk females responsible for their decisions to consent to sex because we say they were impaired. But we do hold drunk males responsible for their decisions to have consensual sex when they are drunk. WHY? Tell me why that is equitable?

And I am not talking about a drunk male actually forcing a female or tricking her. Just two drunk people AGREEING to have sex. That makes the male a rapist and the female a victim, even though both gave consent and both were drunk. PLease tell me how that is fair.

 

[katydid23]

Men have the anatomical "bias" in that they can force, using an erogenous body part, vaginal, oral, and anal sex on an unwilling woman. It's stupid to act as though that's not true in order to be "fair."

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So what! Are you saying that females cannot sexually assault someone!!!!!

 

[katydid23]

If the guy is unconscious, that's pretty much the end of the story. There isn't going to be any action. If the girl passes out, the guy can still do the deed. That's the difference.

And honestly, if the guy wants to do the deed with a girl that is passed out cold, that's a problem. He's a problem. That's Bill Cosby kind of $**t.

But how is that fair? If the guy is passed out drunk and a female gives him oral sex, which has happened before, why isnt that RAPE? There can be action, even in a 'sleeping' male. Have you ever seen morning wood?

 

[katydid23]

Seems we're getting waaaaaay away from the topic of this thread. Which was a bunch of frat boys, at a frat house off campus putting up banners inviting parents to drop off their female freshman students there (and their moms, too!).

IMO, the implication is pretty clear. To others, not so much. I should hope that by the time our boys and girls go off to college, we have taught them ALL how to behave responsibly. Of course, we know that's not always going to stick, but NO ONE should become a victim of rape or false accusations due to a lapse in judgement.

The reason we are down this road is because people said that banner is indicative of our 'rape culture' and it meant the frat boys were threatening to rape the unsuspecting girls.

And I am pushing back on that a bit because I think that rape culture bit is being hyped and exaggerated and there is a bias against our male students. It is a very unpopular stance here but I stand by it.

 

[DexterMorgan]

What difference does it make? Having sex with an unconscious woman is what? Satisfying? Memorable? Hot?

Nope. Just gross and creepy.

I was just saying that their (Vanderbilt and Cosby) acts were intentional and premeditated and unconsenting and was not approved by the person before or during the consumption of the alcohol.

 

[flourish]

What difference does it make? Having sex with an unconscious woman is what? Satisfying? Memorable? Hot?

Nope. Just gross and creepy.

I thought Dex was making the distinction between willing and unwilling consumption of drugs and alcohol.

Idk if the implication was that women who were raped after willingly consuming drugs or alcohol are less raped than women who were raped after unwillingly consuming drugs or alcohol or not?

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[katydid23]

Men have the anatomical "bias" in that they can force, using an erogenous body part, vaginal, oral, and anal sex on an unwilling woman. It's stupid to act as though that's not true in order to be "fair."

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As a survivor of childhood abuse and incest I went to many years of 'group therapy' with other survivors. If you said that in front of the male sexual abuse survivors they would be very upset with you. I don't think you know some of the things that women can do to males to arouse them, against their will even. Men can be rape victims too.

 

[flourish]

So what! Are you saying that females cannot sexually assault someone!!!!!

Re-read please. I was very incredibly clear about what exactly I was saying. Please don't twist what I said.

Can women force, using an erogenous body part, vaginal, oral, and anal sex on a man? Because that's specifically what I was referring to and specifically said as much.

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[katydid23]

What I don't understand is that if these young men are so vulnerable to false accusations by drunk, enticing young women, then why are they hanging banners encouraging these women to party and get drunk? Shouldn't they instead be hanging banners warning these women against drinking as a means of protecting these young men's safety? It would seem like these young men are just setting themselves up for a dangerous situation. MOO

wow. Painting a broad brush, aren't we? ' These young men?' How do we know that the idiots who hung that sign have anything to do with males who have been falsely accused?

What if I talked about a small subset of college girls and then said "these young women ' to include ALL young college girls. That seems really unfair.

I have to say that I sense a whole lot of negative biases towards young males. I think we have a major stereotype going on in this thread in which they are seen as sexual predators. And that is very sad.

 

[Fairy1]

But how is that fair? If the guy is passed out drunk and a female gives him oral sex, which has happened before, why isnt that RAPE? There can be action, even in a 'sleeping' male. Have you ever seen morning wood?

We're not talking about morning wood. We're talking about the sexual assault of someone who is out cold. There's a difference. And let me ask you, if, by some chance a man could become aroused while out cold, how would he know he had been sexually assaulted via oral sex the next morning??? Is he bruised? Sore?

 

[flourish]

Men have the anatomical "bias" in that they can force, using an erogenous body part, vaginal, oral, and anal sex on an unwilling woman. It's stupid to act as though that's not true in order to be "fair."

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That's what I wrote.

So what! Are you saying that females cannot sexually assault someone!!!!!

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[Fairy1]

So what! Are you saying that females cannot sexually assault someone!!!!!

Where are the stats on this?

 

[katydid23]

Re-read please. I was very incredibly clear about what exactly I was saying. Please don't twist what I said.

Can women force, using an erogenous body part, vaginal, oral, and anal sex on a man? Because that's specifically what I was referring to and specifically said as much.

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you do understand that a man can 'rape ' a woman without using his sexual organs, correct? Because woman can do the same thing. Women can be very creative.

 

[flourish]

But how is that fair? If the guy is passed out drunk and a female gives him oral sex, which has happened before, why isnt that RAPE? There can be action, even in a 'sleeping' male. Have you ever seen morning wood?

Morning wood frequently occurs in the morning, not when pissed drunk.

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[katydid23]

you do understand that a man can 'rape ' a woman without using his sexual organs, correct? Because woman can do the same thing. Women can be very creative. And they can arouse a man against his will and have sex with him. And penetrate him anally with objects.

 

[katydid23]

Morning wood frequently occurs in the morning, not when pissed drunk.

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exactly. But even when a teen is drunk he can become easily aroused. It just amazes me that people want to deny that males can be sexually assaulted.

 

[DexterMorgan]

Signs like that should immediately tell the females that they do not want to party in that dorm ever. Lol

Atleast the smart ones will know that the guys there are a bunch of pervs. Lol. Jmo.

 

[flourish]

As a survivor of childhood abuse and incest I went to many years of 'group therapy' with other survivors. If you said that in front of the male sexual abuse survivors they would be very upset with you. I don't think you know some of the things that women can do to males to arouse them, against their will even. Men can be rape victims too.

Twice on this thread alone I've discussed close male family members who were sexually abused. Ffs.

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[flourish]

you do understand that a man can 'rape ' a woman without using his sexual organs, correct? Because woman can do the same thing. Women can be very creative.

You understand I deliberately worded my post to clearly distinguish exactly that, no???

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[Fairy1]

you do understand that a man can 'rape ' a woman without using his sexual organs, correct? Because woman can do the same thing. Women can be very creative. And they can arouse a man against his will and have sex with him. And penetrate him anally with objects.

Yes - this happens all. the. time.