VA - Freshman daughter, mom 'good time drop off' outrages VA university

[Fairy1]

RIGHT. But how is it fair for a student to wait two years, until a male students senior year, and then go to the office and say she revoked her consent. This is not like a rapist that jumped out of the stairwell and grabbed her. This is a male she consented to have sex with. And then two years later she goes to the office and said, YES, I did consent, but then I revoked consent and he did not stop.

SERIOUSLY? We have to automatically believe that story she is now telling? And he is expelled, 4 years of study and tuition, down the drain. Because 2 yrs later she comes forth and says he ignored her when she revoked consent?

I have a real problem with that.

I have a problem with that as well. Two years later? No rape kit? No witnesses? I really have to wonder how it went so far. How did that happen? How did that happen? Please tell me there is more to this story.

 

[Donjeta]

Rachel B. Hitch, a Raleigh attorney, asked Dean Wasiolek of Duke University what would happen if two students got drunk to the point of incapacity, and then had sex.

“They have raped each other and are subject to expulsion?” Hitch asked.

“Assuming it is a male and female, it is the responsibility in the case of the male to gain consent before proceeding with sex,” said Wasiolek.

=========================================================================

HOW IS THAT FAIR?

Why is that so horrible though?
Why should he have the right to have sex without gaining consent?

It's the minimal requirement I think... gaining consent.

For all the parties. So he's not doing anything that is an intolerable burden IMO.

 

[jjenny]

I have a problem with that as well. Two years later? No rape kit? No witnesses? I really have to wonder how it went so far. How did that happen? How did that happen? Please tell me there is more to this story.

How did it happen? The male was boyfriend of the female's roommate. Female seemed to be very concerned her roommate was going to find out she performed oral sex on the male. That same night she invited another student over and had sex with him. Meanwhile University was in trouble for not protecting female students enough. So when they get this case, they expelled the male student.

"The lawsuit is also likely to further fuel an ongoing debate about the tough new standards on sexual assault adopted by colleges and universities under federal government pressure, standards that many legal scholars believe violate the rights of those accused of sexual misconduct."

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/05/29/amherst/4t6JtKmaz7vlYSrQk5NDyJ/story.html

 

[jjenny]

Why is that so horrible though?
Why should he have the right to have sex without gaining consent?

It's the minimal requirement I think... gaining consent.

For all the parties. So he's not doing anything that is an intolerable burden IMO.

Why is the male supposed to get the consent but not the female?

 

[Donjeta]

Why is the male supposed to get the consent but not the female?

Well, apparently it's his whole future at stake because devious females are going to be determined to ruin him years later.

If there was an epidemic of male students accusing female students of sexual assault while drunk I'm sure there would be more emphasis on the female too.

 

[jjenny]

Well, apparently it's his whole future at stake because devious females are going to be determined to ruin him years later.

If there was an epidemic of male students accusing female students of sexual assault while drunk I'm sure there would be more emphasis on the female too.

In some of the cases the males do lose their future because females accused them of assaults years later. But I guess it's funny to some people.

 

[katydid23]

Why is that so horrible though?
Why should he have the right to have sex without gaining consent?

It's the minimal requirement I think... gaining consent.

For all the parties. So he's not doing anything that is an intolerable burden IMO.

He gained consent just as much as she did. If they are BOTH drunk and they BOTH CONSENT, then why is he the one who is charged with a crime?

 

[Fairy1]

How did it happen? The male was boyfriend of the female's roommate. Female seemed to be very concerned her roommate was going to find out she performed oral sex on the male. That same night she invited another student over and had sex with him. Meanwhile University was in trouble for not protecting female students enough. So when they get this case, they expelled the male student.

"The lawsuit is also likely to further fuel an ongoing debate about the tough new standards on sexual assault adopted by colleges and universities under federal government pressure, standards that many legal scholars believe violate the rights of those accused of sexual misconduct."

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/05/29/amherst/4t6JtKmaz7vlYSrQk5NDyJ/story.html

Does this have anything to do with katydid's case?

 

[Fairy1]

In some of the cases the males do lose their future because females accused them of assaults years later. But I guess it's funny to some people.

Yeah - rape is hilarious. Jeez.

 

[jjenny]

Does this have anything to do with katydid's case?

This is the case she was talking about.

 

[jjenny]

Yeah - rape is hilarious. Jeez.

False accusations are even funnier.

 

[Fairy1]

False accusations are even funnier.

Yes - and happens all the time.

 

[katydid23]

Well, apparently it's his whole future at stake because devious females are going to be determined to ruin him years later.

If there was an epidemic of male students accusing female students of sexual assault while drunk I'm sure there would be more emphasis on the female too.

so because males do not typically accuse females of sexual assault, then it is fair to charge males but NOT FEMALES, when both are drunk. No wonder all of these 'mens empowerment' groups are springing up on campuses.

And amazingly enough ---males and females are sexually assaulted at close to the same rates. statistically:


http://www.slate.com/articles/double...assaulted.html

"This definition includes victims who were forced to penetrate someone else with their own body parts, either by physical force or coercion, or when the victim was drunk or high or otherwise unable to consent. When those cases were taken into account, the rates of nonconsensual sexual contact basically equalized, with 1.270 million women and 1.267 million men claiming to be victims of sexual violence.

A recent analysis of BJS data, for example, turned up that 46 percent of male victims reported a female perpetrator

 

[katydid23]

Why is that so horrible though?
Why should he have the right to have sex without gaining consent?

It's the minimal requirement I think... gaining consent.

For all the parties. So he's not doing anything that is an intolerable burden IMO.

The question was, IF BOTH people were drunk, would they BOTH be accused of rape by non-consent?

Why does the male get charged with rape because the female is too drunk to consent, but the female does not get charged, for doing the exact same thing. The male is too drunk to consent. And that does not matter? Males cannot be sexually assaulted?

ETA: sorry, I double replied. I am drinking wine. :cheers:

 

[Donjeta]

He gained consent just as much as she did. If they are BOTH drunk and they BOTH CONSENT, then why is he the one who is charged with a crime?

Well but didn't we just agree that in these cases there frequently aren't any criminal charges?

 

[katydid23]

Well but didn't we just agree that in these cases there frequently aren't any criminal charges?

Not charged by police, but possibly by the University. But I can't find any numbers of how many rapes are actually reported on the campuses.

 

[Donjeta]

Not charged by police, but possibly by the University. But I can't find any numbers of how many rapes are actually reported on the campuses.

JMO if the drunk male didn't file a report and didn't complain to anybody that the drunk female sexually assaulted him, it is probably quite hard for anyone to do anything about the crime the drunk female allegedly committed.

 

[Donjeta]

so because males do not typically accuse females of sexual assault, then it is fair to charge males but NOT FEMALES, when both are drunk. No wonder all of these 'mens empowerment' groups are springing up on campuses.

And amazingly enough ---males and females are sexually assaulted at close to the same rates. statistically:


http://www.slate.com/articles/double...assaulted.html

"This definition includes victims who were forced to penetrate someone else with their own body parts, either by physical force or coercion, or when the victim was drunk or high or otherwise unable to consent. When those cases were taken into account, the rates of nonconsensual sexual contact basically equalized, with 1.270 million women and 1.267 million men claiming to be victims of sexual violence.

A recent analysis of BJS data, for example, turned up that 46 percent of male victims reported a female perpetrator

If that is true it is necessary that the assaulted males steel themselves and file more reports.

Nothing is going to happen to the millions of female rapists unless the male victim complains and makes a criminal report.

Sad and unfair perhaps, but it is what it is.

I would like to know more about these figures and how exactly they got them. You could get lots of different results depending on what exactly the responders were asked.

Probably lots of males report having had sex while very drunk or high and if you count all that as a sexual crime you get sky high numbers. But neither women nor men define all drunk sex they've ever experienced as rape, and a lot of times when it's mutual drunken fumbling it might be quite a stretch to say that the female "forced" them to penetrate.

JMO but if men are distressed because females so frequently force them to perform unwelcome sexual acts they need to empower themselves and start filing more police reports so LE can sort it out.

 

[BritsKate]

What do you think about this man's argument, that the intoxication laws are biased in favor of women?

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2014/02/11/3275721/taranto-college-rape/


In a Wall Street Journal column published on Monday, conservative commentator James Taranto argued that a “balanced” approach to the college sexual assault crisis involves placing equal blame , if both of them were drinking alcohol. The fact that intoxicated rape victims aren’t held responsible for their assault is “self-evidently unjust,” according to Taranto.


“If two drunk drivers are in a collision, one doesn’t determine fault on the basis of demographic details such as each driver’s sex. But when two drunken college students ‘collide,’ the male one is almost always presumed to be at fault,” Taranto writes. He goes on to conclude that efforts to address sexual violence on college campuses are creating a culture in which “women, but not men, are absolved of responsibility by virtue of having consumed alcohol.

Rape is about power and control. Rapists often deliberately target someone who is vulnerable, sometimes even aiding in producing such a vulnerability. They are predators, pure and simple. They come in all shapes, sizes, and genders.

Drunk consensual sex is not the same thing as rape. Drunk consensual sex later regretted by one of the participants is not the same thing as rape. A rape victim and a rapist should not be held to the same standard as one another because only one chose to victimize another. Being drunk should never mean that rape is an inevitable consequence no more than wearing mini skirts or walking home alone at night. Being drunk should never mean that anyone is obligated to have sex because they were drunk or made other mistakes, like asking their perpetrator to buy condoms or sending naked pictures of oneself. Being drunk is not an invitation to be victimized. Being sexually aggressive is not an invitation to be victimized either. And being drunk or wearing something provocative should never automatically discount sexual assault because the victim doesn't meet our ideal of what a victim should be or how he/she should have conducted themselves.

 

[BritsKate]

Fuchs took issue with Hynde’s statements. Interviewed by Yahoo Music, she said she was bothered that Hynde had not spoken to other rape victims about their experience. “If you had seen the messages that people sent me, so many of them were about ‘I’ve always thought it was my fault’ … So this is just telling people who’ve recently gone through this experience of being raped or abused, ‘Yeah, you’re right, it is your fault.’ But there’s no such thing as asking for it. And poor judgment is not an invitation to rape, nor an excuse for it.”

Chrissie Hynde Sent A Dangerous Message on Rape