GUILTY VA - Noah Thomas, 5, Pulaski County, 22 March 2015 #5

[EllieBee]

I understand my friends, I really do. My Dad passed away when I was 10 - it was on my birthday. At that time the wake was 3 days all day and then the funeral. The suppers each night, the crowds in the house and then the huge gathering after the burial far into the night. It was a nightmare. I had been to my grandmother's wakes before that @ age 7 and 9 but only that short intro and brief discussions of relating life ending and beginning in relation to my younger siblings being born. Those went well. I felt a loss and we moved on. I never felt overwhelmed or misunderstood.

My Dad, however was different. In 1965, families were considered complete with a stay-at-home Mom and a working dad. Anything else was a 'broken" home. Without a Dad it was a tragedy. We were now the men, my older brothers and me.

"Stay strong" they told me. "stand up straight and be strong and make Dad proud." Us little men did the best we could. And we did. Children need responsibility and a sense of being needed. Unfortunately grieving, with regard to children was sorely lacking. "It's up to you guys, be good". Well sometime in my thirties I got some help with that. I finally was able to feel the loss, the confusion, the anger, the denial and finally the acceptance - all the stages of grief that every person needs to experience.

This, though, also feels wrong. Over the top - selfish and uninformed like the past only different. This total immersion makes me uncomfortable.

:cow:

{{{hugs}}}

This is getting to be quite a hug-fest, but so be it.

Loss and healing are a huge part of life and if we are to follow these cases while living through our own loss, then we need hugs, and lots of them.

 

[EllieBee]

So sorry for your loss. My own father died in an automobile accident when I was two and sister was 5 yrs. I have not a single memory of him. I think my sister was taken to visitation but not funeral. Hardest thing for me growing up without my father was things like being in Sunday school and teacher asking about my father. My mom taught me to say "my father is deceased". I was too young to understand but I was so extremely uncomfortable by the shock that would be expressed by teachers.

{{{hugs}}} to you, as well.

Bless your tiny, two-year-old heart.

 

[Mollyandme]

Do you guys think if this goes to trial and the parents don't plea or aren't offered a plea deal, tabatha could be subpoenaed by the defense to testify to the stuff she wrote on facebook if they thought it was favorable to the defense?

 

[iamnotagolem]

Thank you for saying this. All of it. I looked at the FB page and was shocked at what I saw. And read. If some of those people who claim to be as close to Noah as they were, and turned a blind eye to his home situation, posting now about how much they care and miss him just raises an eyebrow for me. Many of those FB posts and pics look/read like attention seeking behavior. Where were they when he was alive?

BBM, This is what pains me so much. I think that about the toys and stuff they are leaving on the grave, did they ever give him anything when he was alive?

I don't mind kids at funerals, mine have both been to a few funerals. My grandparents & great grandparents always enjoyed having kiddos at funerals just for the joy they bring.

One thing that has always bothered me about funerals is how everyone tells all these wonderful things about the person. I remember one funeral I attended I thought the speaker was making a joke when he talked about "how she was the most wonderful cook" b/c she was a horrible cook, she never made an edible dish that I'd ever tried. I laughed. At the funeral. My dad died young, he arranged his own funeral beforehand so the speaker (sorry don't know his title) made a few jokes and spoke honestly about my dad.

 

[kshultz06082]

We may also need to start a group for those of us who walk around cemeteries reading headstones in a non-creepy, non-goth, just purely for the interest and the communion with history way. My mom and I do this when we explore old cities. We are fascinated by names, piecing together family histories, looking for how the patterns fit in to the history of the area. Let's make that a separate group from the Weirdo Table.

But then I have to sit at 2 tables!
I too started young with true crime. Both my parents read true crime books so no matter whose house i was at, I could get my fill.
And I think cemeteries are beautiful and interesting, so I do visit them when i have time.

 

[Tallula.Belle]

When my husband passed away in a trucking accident my children were very young. My son was 4 and my daughter just 3 weeks old. At first I was reluctant to take my son to the funeral home, thinking he would just be confused. I was glad that I did though, that after several days of not seeing his father, my son said, "Oh there's my daddy." Like he was so relieved just to know where he was.

I felt he was too young and antsy to sit through the entire funeral service the next day so he stayed home with relatives. I was glad that I decided to take him to the calling hours to be able to see his daddy one last time.

I am so sorry for your loss. My dad died when I was a year old. I was there at the funeral, though obviously I don't remember. I don't know if it is a regional thing but here in the south, kids are always at funerals and I think it is a good thing. I was never sheltered from it, and always knew it was just a part of life, so I never feared it.

I had a co-worker once that had never been and was freaked out by the thought.

 

[hockeymom4]

I have attended way too many funerals for children and I pray that I never go to one more. I copulent handle one, let alone the rest. Of each of the ones closest to me they all grieve and handle their deaths and birthdays, etc differently. I judge none of them. I think they are amazing mom and dads for getting up everyday and embracing the world with a smile.

My friend was pregnant with twins when she went into early labor and had two beautiful boys. Sadly, one of them live three precious months after passing away. Every year on his birthday, yes they celebrate and count them, she and her husband and his twin go and visit him. They bring him a balloon and flowers and yes, she takes pictures. Her surviving son has severe disabilities and this mama is one amazing and hard working lady and is always smiling. So, if this is what she needs to do every year AND post it on FB, then go Mama. When she does, the love and support from family and friends is incredible.

The other two children who died were family members and under five. Their parents go to the cemetery on the birthdays and bring balloons and flowers. They don't post things on FB though when they visit.

Now, I do know of this mom from my neighborhood who was pregnant with her second when her husband died of cancer. They go visit him on his birthday and bring balloons and take pictures. And post on facebook.

I pass no judgement on any of these people for any of their choices. I think it is beautiful. Even after someone dies, it is perfectly acceptable to celebrate their birthday. It is whatever you want to do and what makes you happy and able to grieve the loss of your loved one. Everyone grieves and gets through things differently and for that I will never pass judgement.

***my only exception is when they have something to do with the death of the person or neglect or could have prevented it, etc.

 

[cvillemegan]

I was out of town and mostly off WS for three days over Easter and have finally gotten caught up here. Has anyone else noticed AW deleted everything off her Facebook page? I imagine she realizes people have been looking at it and speculating; probably she has gotten some nasty messages too.

I was talking about this case last night with a defense lawyer who often serves as a guardian ad litem and occasionally takes child abuse cases. He said it is quite common for LE to sweet talk the parents (or any POI) before charging them to get them to talk without a lawyer present. He also speculated that in a high profile case like this, defense attorneys would be offering to represent Paul and Ashley pro bono for the publicity.

 

[KristiA]

Here goes my first post after two weeks of stalking this forum. I enjoy watching these threads unfold and value everyone's opinions, incite, etc. Courtneyb and vasportsmom, I look forward to your posts because you say exactly what I am thinking, in the way I say it in my mind.

I am thankful for this forum, where we can really examine a case like this and everyone seems to contribute logical input. Admittedly, I do follow those FB pages for Noah. It's like a train wreck that I can't bring myself to look away from! If you can get past the horrible grammar and punctuation (or lack of), most posts are just rumors and a whole lot of bickering.

I too, love all things true crime. The tv stays on the ID channel while the kids are in school. My dad was a police officer, taught police science and later became a private investigator. Sleuthing is in my blood. My dear husband just calls me nosey.

With all that said, my opinion on Noah is this: sometime on Saturday night, that child died as a result of negligence at the hands of his parents. (I am willing to bet that it was drug related, but the toxicology results will rule that in or out soon). I think the parents panicked and had the horrible idea to place him in the septic tank, deceased. My mind won't allow me to imagine them placing a live child in that cesspool. I believe they dressed him in his coat and rain boots to help perpetuate the lie that he went outside while AW napped.

By the end of Day 2 of the search when neither parents had made a public plea, I knew they were responsible for some type of wrong doing. Like others have said, I would have demanded to take a polygraph and then called the media myself to get my voice heard! I find it odd, when parents won't be the voice for their child in disappearance cases.

I know Sheriff Davis and LE stressed that the parents were cooperative. My dad frequently used the term "keeping it close to the vest" when talking about LE tactics. LE speculated early on that AW & PT were responsible and were trying to earn their trust, etc. While we sleuthers at home thought LE incompetent at times, they were "keeping it close to the vest" and doing their job. While we made a lot out of AW's timeline discrepancies, LE wasn't that concerned because I believe they knew it was a lie to begin with.

My boys 15 & 12, have been to numerous funerals and have a healthy understanding of death. I am of the belief that it's a fact of life, and as a parent my job is to prepare them as best I can. Like many on this thread, I do not decorate graves with trinkets, toys, stuffed animals, etc. However, I do wear a small cross necklace with a little bit of my dad's ashes in it. Some people think that's weird. So perhaps, I need someone to save me a seat at the weird table also...

So in a nutshell, that is my introduction to y'all. I am appreciative and thankful for this WS community.

 

[hockeymom4]

I was out of town and mostly off WS for three days over Easter and have finally gotten caught up here. Has anyone else noticed AW deleted everything off her Facebook page? I imagine she realizes people have been looking at it and speculating; probably she has gotten some nasty messages too.

I was talking about this case last night with a defense lawyer who often serves as a guardian ad litem and occasionally takes child abuse cases. He said it is quite common for LE to sweet talk the parents (or any POI) before charging them to get them to talk without a lawyer present. He also speculated that in a high profile case like this, defense attorneys would be offering to represent Paul and Ashley pro bono for the publicity.

She's in jail, right? So someone else would have to do it, if it's gone. I have not gone back and looked.

 

[hockeymom4]

Here goes my first post after two weeks of stalking this forum. I enjoy watching these threads unfold and value everyone's opinions, incite, etc. Courtneyb and vasportsmom, I look forward to your posts because you say exactly what I am thinking, in the way I say it in my mind.

I am thankful for this forum, where we can really examine a case like this and everyone seems to contribute logical input. Admittedly, I do follow those FB pages for Noah. It's like a train wreck that I can't bring myself to look away from! If you can get past the horrible grammar and punctuation (or lack of), most posts are just rumors and a whole lot of bickering.

I too, love all things true crime. The tv stays on the ID channel while the kids are in school. My dad was a police officer, taught police science and later became a private investigator. Sleuthing is in my blood. My dear husband just calls me nosey.

With all that said, my opinion on Noah is this: sometime on Saturday night, that child died as a result of negligence at the hands of his parents. (I am willing to bet that it was drug related, but the toxicology results will rule that in or out soon). I think the parents panicked and had the horrible idea to place him in the septic tank, deceased. My mind won't allow me to imagine them placing a live child in that cesspool. I believe they dressed him in his coat and rain boots to help perpetuate the lie that he went outside while AW napped.

By the end of Day 2 of the search when neither parents had made a public plea, I knew they were responsible for some type of wrong doing. Like others have said, I would have demanded to take a polygraph and then called the media myself to get my voice heard! I find it odd, when parents don't be the voice for their child in disappearance cases.

I know Sheriff Davis and LE stressed that the parents were cooperative. My dad frequently used the term "keeping it close to the vest" when talking about LE tactics. LE speculated early on that AW & PT were responsible and were trying to earn their trust, etc. While we sleuthers at home thought LE incompetent at times, they were "keeping it close to the vest" and doing their job. While we made a lot out of AW's timeline discrepancies, LE wasn't that concerned because I believe they knew it was a lie to begin with.

My boys 15 & 12, have been to numerous funerals and have a healthy understanding of death. I am of the belief that it's a fact of life, and as a parent my job is to prepare them as best I can. Like many on this thread, I do not decorate graves with trinkets, toys, stuffed animals, etc. However, I do wear a small cross necklace with a little bit of my dad's ashes in it. Some people think that's weird. So perhaps, I need someone to save me a seat at the weird table also...

So in a nutshell, that is my introduction to y'all. I am appreciative and thankful for this WS community.

Great first post! So glad you decided to post and join us here. You are all set up at the table with us! We are all SO happy and lucky to have you! Great "weird" minds all think alike.

 

[Bravo]

:welcome: KristiA
Great 1st post

 

[KristiA]

Great first post! So glad you decided to post and join us here. You are all set up at the table with us! We are all SO happy and lucky to have you! Great "weird" minds all think alike.

Thanks! I am happy to be here!

 

[LayzeeDayzee]

I personally don't believe the Pokemon cards ever existed. I believe the so-called Mom simply made this up (the existence of them). I also wonder if he really even had a pair of Spiderman boots. My gut says she was just trying to make him appear to be a well-loved (by her/his parents) little boy who was loved so much that he had favorite things that meant a lot to him. Did anyone ever see him with this Pokemon tin? Or him wearing Spiderman boots? IMO, this poor little boy likely had very few toys, perhaps partly due to financial reasons but mostly due to parents not making this little boy much of a priority.

Also, if the cards/tin never really existed, even if he was found (which he was), there would still be the outstanding issue of "where" did the cards/tin go.....who took them? who took them from him?.......was it some evil abductor or child molester? -- I'm thinking that was what the Mom/parents were thinking. My guess is that they planned the details in advance, discussed them together, agreed on what mom would tell LE when she reported him missing. Rehearsed.

One question - was the septic tank lid buried underground and/or bolted to the pipe?

As for the Pokemon cards, I want to know if they really existed!

Maybe I'm just suspicious, but from what I've read about Noah's home life (parents leaving him unattended in the garden for hours, neighbours feeding him, Noah staying out with neighbours till 10pm etc), I wonder if the cards were made up to make the parents look nice. To give the impression Noah was treated to special things or to make it look like the parents actually knew what his favourite thing was and made sure he had things he wanted. It puts them in a better light (especially when people are saying that they never saw the parents with him outside, and parents just text for people to send him home, rather than showing any interest).

Also, if you plant an item as missing, and nobody can find it (as it doesn't exist), it adds weight to the disappearance story. The cards are definitely not in the house or garden, therefore neither is Noah as he definitely had them when he was last seen.

But I am the most cynical person in the world!

Other questions I would love to have answered - what made them take the baby away so quickly? Did Dad really go to work that day?

 

[KristiA]

:welcome: KristiA
Great 1st post

Thanks!

 

[Tallula.Belle]

She's in jail, right? So someone else would have to do it, if it's gone. I have not gone back and looked.

When Noah first went missing PT's sister said they had never really used FB much. So I don't think there was anything to delete.

 

[courtneyb]

When Noah first went missing PT's sister said they had never really used FB much. So I don't think there was anything to delete.

I may not have looked early enough, but I never saw much there either.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[hockeymom4]

I was out of town and mostly off WS for three days over Easter and have finally gotten caught up here. Has anyone else noticed AW deleted everything off her Facebook page? I imagine she realizes people have been looking at it and speculating; probably she has gotten some nasty messages too.

I was talking about this case last night with a defense lawyer who often serves as a guardian ad litem and occasionally takes child abuse cases. He said it is quite common for LE to sweet talk the parents (or any POI) before charging them to get them to talk without a lawyer present. He also speculated that in a high profile case like this, defense attorneys would be offering to represent Paul and Ashley pro bono for the publicity.

When Noah first went missing PT's sister said they had never really used FB much. So I don't think there was anything to delete.

This was the post I replied to. The poster said AW deleted stuff off her FB. My point is that she in jail. So, if stuff is gone, someone else had to delete it.

Are you saying nothing has been deleted? She is saying it has? I am lost.

 

[Tallula.Belle]

This was the post I replied to. The poster said AW deleted stuff off her FB. My point is that she in jail. So, if stuff is gone, someone else had to delete it.

Are you saying nothing has been deleted? She is saying it has? I am lost.

I saw her FB before she was arrested and it didn't look like it had been used in years. PT didn't use his either, so I don't think there was anything to erase.

 

[Steleheart]

I saw her FB before she was arrested and it didn't look like it had been used in years. PT didn't use his either, so I don't think there was anything to erase.

Both of them seemed to me that their FB had been set to "friends" some time ago. but there was nothing new posted publicly in some time.