GUILTY VA - Noah Thomas, 5, Pulaski County, 22 March 2015 #6

[Schmaley]

I agree. I'm glad you found a good doctor. When my littl one got RSV it came on hard and fast. Asthma also runs in my family and my 2 year old showed some signs of it at a very early age, but he hasn't been diagnosed and has had no issues since. In terms of them not being charged with medical neglect, I'm thinking maybe CPS used the lack of medical care, or whatever the diagnosis was in their affidavits in family court to remove her from the home. We won't have access to that information because it's sealed in family or juvenile court but when I had to write out my affidavits for removing a child from the home we literally had to list all the reasons in all these legal terms, and we listed anything we could think of that would hold water in court, just so it was on the record, and then let the judge decide. So maybe it wasn't something so severe they could actually be charged with medical neglect, but it was prob something CPS could use in their argument for placement of the baby in foster care. I hope that makes some sense

I think that's a very plausible scenario. I feel like the police were at their home while noah was being searched for and if it were very obvious breathing difficulty then the police would have noticed and not waited an entire day but rather insist the baby be treated immediately . So she probably did have respiratory issues but not likely long term lung depression.

 

[2Hope4]

*sigh*

The most troubling part for me is that if Noah was sick, and it esculated, or an accident happened, then why wasn't he taken to a doctor or the hospital? No matter if you felt guilty or whatever, you take action if your child is injuried.

Now to join those 'not perfect parents', I have chronic fatigue syndrome, wasn't diagnosed at the time, but I stayed extremely tired after having my first child. I napped when he napped. When he was 6 weeks old, I was sound asleep, and heard him crying. I went to get out of bed, and almost stepped on him. At some point during the night, he had cried, and my husband had gotten him out of the crib and brought him to me to nurse. I nursed him in my sleep, never realizing he was in the bed with me. I rushed him to the hospital, so scared his little head had hit the floor, because the head is the heaviest, so in my mind, it must have hit the floor! I was a mess, felt guilty as heck, and was crying my heart out. My baby was OK. But NEVER EVER again was he in my bed. I would nurse him in the rocking chair in the nursery.

Same child also developed croup. Sounds terrible when an infant has croup. One night it got worse, and I was heading to the ER with him, but when we got outside, it started clearing up. I debated on what to do. I ended up taking him to his pediatrician the following day. Very common for croup to clear when taken into the cool air at night. I had tried the steam in the bathroom before and it helped some, but wasn't enough. At any rate, I worried constantly about when I should take him in each time he got croup...and yes he did finally outgrow it, when he was a teenager!!!! I don't ever remember the docs giving him any medicine for croup. It was always keep an eye on him, and if breathing is labored, lips pale or bluish, get him into the ER. Times may have changed...I don't know.

Now I worked at the same hospital I was taking my kids. I was a nurse there. Yet even then, I didn't care what anyone thought. I wanted tests to make sure my baby wasn't harmed in anyway! No shaken baby from the fall, no fractures of the skull, or broken bones, etc. Never did it cross my mind NOT to take him into the ER after falling out of the bed!

I pray Noah had a normal childhood, and wasn't abused, or neglected until this time that ended in his death. I pray that he enjoyed life, what little time he had.

 

[ANonyMs]

*sigh*

The most troubling part for me is that if Noah was sick, and it esculated, or an accident happened, then why wasn't he taken to a doctor or the hospital? No matter if you felt guilty or whatever, you take action if your child is injuried.

{snipped by me for brevity}

I pray Noah had a normal childhood, and wasn't abused, or neglected until this time that ended in his death. I pray that he enjoyed life, what little time he had.

I think it didn't cross your mind not to get help because you sound like a reasonable, responsible parent.

While I agree with you - if your child is ill or injured - as a responsible parent, you seek help immediately no matter what the price to yourself - we don't have anything at all that indicates Noah was ill. It has never been mentioned. And the parents were not charged with Medical Neglect for Baby A. They were not charged with failing to seek medical attention for an ill or injured child for either child. (Though, I think that may be a charge that still could be brought later after the final autopsy is complete.)

And, IMO, they have not demonstrated that they are particularly stellar examples of "responsible parents". Even if this all shakes out in the end to be an accident, AW is charged with a level of abuse/neglect that led to Noah's death. I just don't know that any of our comparisons to our own experiences and what we did or would have done will ever really help make sense of any of this.

But it is your last sentence that keeps tugging at me. "I pray that he enjoyed life, what little time he had." I think he did. While I am not sure how often or how deeply the other aspects of his home life affected him, there seem to be lots of pictures of him smiling and laughing, and lots of people have shared sweet stories of him on FB. I think 5 years old are still mostly insulated from understanding how their lives differ from their friends and classmates. I have a 6.5 year old, so it doesn't seem that long ago that she was Noah's age. I think about her perspective on things last year and hope that he had the same sunny perspective and resilience that she had during a stressful time for our family. And I think it may have been that resilience that masked some of the conditions he was enduring from outsiders.

 

[TieDyeJedi]

I think for a lot of parents participating on this thread, it gives a big dose of but there for the grace of God go I. It makes people defensive. Lots of parents have dozed off on the couch while their kids were watching TV, or had a heart attack moment where the kid snuck out the front door while you were going to the bathroom really quick. These are things that can happen to any parent. The thing we all need to keep in mind is that the major distinguishing factor between us and this case is that any of us would render immediate medical help or assistance from law enforcement if our child were very ill or missing.

Trust me, I felt that way reading this thread a lot because I have certainly dozed off sitting up on the couch or at the table while my kids were watching TV. But certainly not for 3 hours. And my first response to a sick, injured, or missing child would not be to try to cover up anything to protect myself. I assume I speak for any parent participating on this thread when I say any of us would be like that. We wouldn't be trying to protect ourselves, only help the child.

 

[Queen Bee]

http://www.wdbj7.com/news/local/mother-of-noah-thomas-to-appeal-bond-denial/32426680

Ashley White has a hearing Monday morning in Circuit Court. Earlier this week, the father of Noah, Paul Thomas, and White were both denied bond.

(this has video of ashley arriving to court)

 

[Dogface]

I think for a lot of parents participating on this thread, it gives a big dose of but there for the grace of God go I. It makes people defensive. Lots of parents have dozed off on the couch while their kids were watching TV, or had a heart attack moment where the kid snuck out the front door while you were going to the bathroom really quick. These are things that can happen to any parent. The thing we all need to keep in mind is that the major distinguishing factor between us and this case is that any of us would render immediate medical help or assistance from law enforcement if our child were very ill or missing.

Trust me, I felt that way reading this thread a lot because I have certainly dozed off sitting up on the couch or at the table while my kids were watching TV. But certainly not for 3 hours. And my first response to a sick, injured, or missing child would not be to try to cover up anything to protect myself. I assume I speak for any parent participating on this thread when I say any of us would be like that. We wouldn't be trying to protect ourselves, only help the child.

Great post! Very true!

 

[MyBelle]

I think that's a very plausible scenario. I feel like the police were at their home while noah was being searched for and if it were very obvious breathing difficulty then the police would have noticed and not waited an entire day but rather insist the baby be treated immediately . So she probably did have respiratory issues but not likely long term lung depression.

She could have had obvious congestion and the environment she was in could have been making it worse. We do not know the condition of the home or whether it was sanitary. There may have been horrible smells affecting the air quality. We just don't know at this point.

JMO

 

[Queen Bee]

http://www.wdbj7.com/news/local/mother-of-noah-thomas-to-appeal-bond-denial/32426680

Ashley White had a hearing scheduled for Monday morning in Circuit Court, but it has been continued to Tuesday. A defense witness did not appear.

 

[JeannaT]

Reading the comments below that article, it seems to me that after the hearing, it would be wise to have LE release information about the septic tank lid. If it is impossible that a child fell in there, say it. If it's very possible, say it. The rage among people who have concluded that he was placed in there has reached a dangerous level, and it would be easy enough for LE to release a statement by the initial responders as to the condition/placement of the sewer lid they lifted while they were waiting for further instruction. Clearly, it was not bolted down.

 

[ANonyMs]

http://www.wdbj7.com/news/local/mother-of-noah-thomas-to-appeal-bond-denial/32426680

Ashley White had a hearing scheduled for Monday morning in Circuit Court, but it has been continued to Tuesday. A defense witness did not appear.

For some reason, I thought the hearing for the appeal was Wed not today. Thanks for posting this!

And continued b/c a defense witness failed to show. I know witnesses failing to show is not unusual but I wonder if it was someone who was unavailable and had to reschedule or flat out *failed* to appear.

 

[gena]

Cant stop thinking of this little boy....:-(

 

[LadyMaryB]

Schmaley- I completely understand your situation, as I have worked in the med field 20 years. Two of those years were in the nursery. What angers me about this specific case is the obvious neglect both Noah and the baby suffered. I'm a parent and in 8 weeks, will be a grandparent; sicknesses and things happen and always will. There's too much negative, ugliness and trash, imo, surrounding AW and PT, and in turn, their kids were subjected to it and had no choice. Parents like these usually don't make it a priority to get their kids to the doctor when sick. I'm sorry if you took offense to my post, as I certainly didn't intend to, and I also apologize it took me a few days to reply.

Snipped by me. This is a sore subject for me. Reading statements like yours about the respiratory issues feels like someone is pushing on a bruise. My son was born at home with the help of two midwives and a doula who did his well checks and newborn care until 4 weeks. He had his first cold at 4 days old. My midwives checked him once a week and re assured me it was a cold. It would come and go. When he was 6 weeks old, he seemed to be getting worse. I took him to urgent care and he had a 104 fever (it happened to be my first day back at work and he felt warm but not terrible) so I was shocked. The pedi checked him and said it was an ear infection and it was a relief because he didn't need the tests he would have had if they hadn't found the problem right away. Took him home and gave him meds. He wasn't nursing, very lethargic. I called that night and the nurse acted like I was over reacting and said to let the antibiotics work. The next day I stayed home and he was getting worse. No wet diapers. Day three I had to go back to work. It was a matter of paying my mortgage so I had to leave him with my mother in law. She called me that morning and said he needed to go to the ER. I brought him in and he had very serious pneumonia. It was awful and came on very quickly. I still feel the pain of him being in the hospital for 9 days. It was tremendously horrible. But I really feel like respiratory stuff is hard for parents. Colds can evolve in the matter of two days. I have seen it.

Anyways, I know your post was written with good intentions but I hope you are able to entertain the possibility that respiratory issues is a vague term and they can come on quickly. That's all.

 

[LadyMaryB]

I never said, nor was it implied in my comment that Noah's parents were operating a meth lab. It was a small joke about anyone running a meth lab, anywhere. <modsnip>

Are you referring to the Noah's parents operating a meth lab? TIA

 

[courtneyb]

Marking my spot.. Hi All!

 

[LadyMaryB]

The 6 month old was removed from the home the day after Noah was reported missing after police called in DSS medical personal who evaluated the baby. It 2 as the Commonwealth’s Attorney who said in court she was removed for (I remember the CA exact quote) "fairly serious respiratory problems." I'm sorry I don't currently have time to search either WDBJ.com or Roanoke Times (at roanoke.com) right now, although that quote can be found at at least one of those sources, as they're the only two I generally read, unless it's a link posted here. Please feel free to search them however, had the parents taken the baby to get medical attention, she wouldn't have been removed from their care.

BBM

Do you have a link the baby wasn't taken to the Dr? TIA

 

[courtneyb]

For some reason, I thought the hearing for the appeal was Wed not today. Thanks for posting this!

And continued b/c a defense witness failed to show. I know witnesses failing to show is not unusual but I wonder if it was someone who was unavailable and had to reschedule or flat out *failed* to appear.

I wonder what grounds she is appealing on. <snipped by me while trying to find link again> I will find the link when I get the kids settled.

Possibly she is talking? Unless I missed it, Paul isn't appealing his bond, and she has the more serious charges.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[iamnotagolem]

The 6 month old was removed from the home the day after Noah was reported missing after police called in DSS medical personal who evaluated the baby. It 2 as the Commonwealth&#8217;s Attorney who said in court she was removed for (I remember the CA exact quote) "fairly serious respiratory problems." I'm sorry I don't currently have time to search either WDBJ.com or Roanoke Times (at roanoke.com) right now, although that quote can be found at at least one of those sources, as they're the only two I generally read, unless it's a link posted here. Please feel free to search them however, had the parents taken the baby to get medical attention, she wouldn't have been removed from their care.

Just dropping in the link

she was found to have bad respiratory problems and was treated by doctors
http://wric.com/2015/04/15/parents-charged-in-death-of-noah-thomas-denied-bond/

The Commonwealth said the couple's baby had significant respiratory problems when she was taken under the care of Social Services.
http://www.wset.com/story/28809827/update-noah-thomas-case-both-parents-bond-hearings-today

 

[iamnotagolem]

Marking my spot.. Hi All!

Oh happy day
:loveyou:

 

[courtneyb]

Just dropping in the link

she was found to have bad respiratory problems and was treated by doctors
http://wric.com/2015/04/15/parents-charged-in-death-of-noah-thomas-denied-bond/

The Commonwealth said the couple's baby had significant respiratory problems when she was taken under the care of Social Services.
http://www.wset.com/story/28809827/update-noah-thomas-case-both-parents-bond-hearings-today

I would think and hope that they had more to go on than the baby had a cold as a reason to remove her from the home.

I can't see them removing her if she had asthma or bronchitis, etc. and had been receiving medical treatment.

I think the respiratory issues were not the main reason she was removed. Surely there were other, more obvious signs of neglect. You don't remove a child from the home that has a medical condition they are being treated for, with that being the sole or even main reason.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MzOpinion8d]

Reading the comments below that article, it seems to me that after the hearing, it would be wise to have LE release information about the septic tank lid. If it is impossible that a child fell in there, say it. If it's very possible, say it. The rage among people who have concluded that he was placed in there has reached a dangerous level, and it would be easy enough for LE to release a statement by the initial responders as to the condition/placement of the sewer lid they lifted while they were waiting for further instruction. Clearly, it was not bolted down.

LE has to walk a fine, fine line here, because if (when) it is finally revealed that the lid was not covered with sod nor bolted down, they have to explain why the tank wasn't drained immediately to rule out the possibility that he had fallen in.

I think if the lid had been bolted on and covered with sod, they would have said so by now so people would know why the septic tank wasn't an immediate priority.