VA - Virginia Tech Shooting, 32 murdered, 23 injured, 16 April 2007

  • #581
Cho chained them, he brought chain with him, sections of the same chain were found on his corpse. I don't know about the padlocks, they weren't specifically mentioned.

Thanks, KatK. That is amazing and shows that he had planned in advance. It must have just been one set of doors that he chained -- the main doors on that one wing of the building. Did he have a car? He probably drove from the dorms to a lot near Norris Hall. I can't imagine that he would have walked a half mile carrying the chain, two guns and all of that ammunition without being very visible.
 
  • #582
<snip>

According to search warrants and statements from the police, campus investigators had been busy pursuing what appears to have been a fruitless lead in the first of two shooting episodes Monday.
After two people, Emily Jane Hilscher, a freshman, and Ryan Clark, the resident adviser whose room was nearby in the dormitory, were shot dead, the campus police began searching for Karl D. Thornhill, who was described in Internet memorials as Hilscher’s boyfriend.
According to a search warrant filed by the police, Hilscher’s roommate had told the police that Thornhill, a student at nearby Radford University, had guns at his town house. The roommate told the police that she had recently been at a shooting range with Thornhill, the affidavit said, leading the police to believe he may have been the gunman.
But as they were questioning Thornhill, reports of widespread shooting at Norris Hall came in, making it clear that they had not contained the threat on campus. Thornhill was not arrested, although he continues to be an important witness in the case, the police said.

more at the link http://www.roanoke.com/news/nrv/breaking/wb/113294
 
  • #583
BeeBee,
There has been mention by both teachers and students that Cho seemed to have a problem with "identity", instead of signing his name on a sign in sheet, he put a "?". I think that in his sick way of thinking, removing the serial numbers was an issue with identity.

Now that makes sense. The only reason I could think of was that Cho filed off the serial numbers after he bought the guns and planned to commit murder, but before he planned on committing mass murder and suicide. I sure do like your theory.

Lion
 
  • #584
What you are failing to grasp, is that Cho tested the security measures with bomb threats. Don't you think he'd have known exactly what would happen in a "lockdown" and been able to spot any flaws or holes? I don't think a campus full of paniced fleeing students would be conducive to a search for an unknown suspect, armed and dangerous. That would be perfect camoflauge. You are right in that there does need to be some kind of procedure in place, but wrong in thinking that it would be much of a help against a determined person bent on havoc. It would more be a "security blanket" than anything, there to make us feel safer, not so much to make it so. They'd have to institute a method much more like a fire drill, where sections in a certain order calmly file out, and each section in turn moves in the que. That still would be like lining up ducks for someone focused on killing.

Also, the 1st two killings across campus, acted as a deterrent, for the mass killings which happened 2 hours later.

It seemed similar in nature to the way a group of bank robbers plan a criminal distraction involving law enforcement across town, so that they can hit the 'mother load bank' thrity minutes later on the other side of town.

Whether or not he planned it as such, he had 99% of Law Enforcement preoccupied on the other side of the campus, leaving Norris Hall available to him 'free for the pickings'.
 
  • #585
Has anybody read or heard anything about Seung-hui's family or people who knew him growing up? The descriptions of his withdrawn behavior and the violent plays he wrote suggest that his family life was far from ideal. I am curious if anybody knew him to be abused or, at the least, emotional neglected by his parents. The one play has a boy, mother and stepfather, with implications of sexual and physical abuse. Was Seung-hui relating his own experiences? I haven't heard anything on the media that addresses his family life.
 
  • #586
Currently taking place. Some sort of suspicious event occuring inside.
 
  • #587
A bomb thread was called into VT this morning. They evacuated the students.
 
  • #588
Cho had a backpack with the chains inside, so he wouldn't have been suspicous at all. *goes to search for news on the bomb threats* Anyone got a good link on this development?

ETA: This is all I could find, from CNN. It makes no mention specifically of a bomb threat, but does say paraphrased: The President's (College) office needed to be secured.

ETA 2: Here is a link with video describing Cho's "crazy" behavior though.
 
  • #589
Poor kids.
 
  • #590
They are saying the incident is over. Poor kids.
 
  • #591
I am going to take a flying guess here. From all accounts thus far, Cho's parents were upstanding people. We can never know for sure what the family dynamics truly were. They may have not done anything, "wrong" in the way they raised him. He may have been molested as a boy, at a critical time in development, and kept it secret so his parents never knew. Who knows? He was one twisted dude.

In any case, he seemed to have a serious identity problem like shadow205 mentioned, and he seemed to almost lack a personality--except what shown through in his bizarre and violent writings.

I do believe; however, that what ever went wrong within his mind began many years ago in childhood, even if most, including his parents could not tell or refused to see it. It is just my opinion, but I'm stickin' to it.

Lion
 
  • #592
This is not going to be a popular opinion...
I kind of think part of his issue was a cultural thing.
I do not mean that in any kind of racist way but I think that the pressure was added because of his race (in his own mind) and it was Virginia not Cali or another state where Korean's are more populous.
 
  • #593
This is part of an email I received today from a friend who lives up there and where I grew up.

"I just wanted to tell you about my day yesterday. We got a call asking for volunteers to go to Tech to help relieve people who were signing up students for counseling. When we got there, our duties had changed dramatically. The families were told that only the medical examiner could officially identify their children. The parents were told to come to us to provide identifying information about their children. It was horrible. My table only had one set of parents. We had the official medical examiner’s forms. I really think it was fair to say that the parents were numb with grief. They were very calm and only wanted to leave with their children’s bodies. The parents are getting angry because the VT President had not spoken with them directly. They are angry with the medical examiner. It is just a horrible thing. I hope that we do not have to go back today!"
 
  • #594
Has anybody read or heard anything about Seung-hui's family or people who knew him growing up? The descriptions of his withdrawn behavior and the violent plays he wrote suggest that his family life was far from ideal. I am curious if anybody knew him to be abused or, at the least, emotional neglected by his parents. The one play has a boy, mother and stepfather, with implications of sexual and physical abuse. Was Seung-hui relating his own experiences? I haven't heard anything on the media that addresses his family life.

From my personal experience with people who have moved to the US from a foreign country, who speak a different 'primary language' other than English, whose culture varies greatly from that of natural born Americans, and most especially those of Asian decent, to generalize, these people OFTEN seem to choose to, or felt forced to 'isolate' themselves from 'mainstream' Americans.

Many of the young Asian children in the public elementary school system when I taught, (1978-1994 and for a short time in 2004), were very shy and socially withdrawn. Even those little children who were born in the US, but were being raised in a home in the US by parents and other relatives who still chose to use their native tongue as their primary language within the home, and who chose to highly honor customs and cultures of their ancestors native land, appeared to create the image of 'isolating' these children socially from the mainstream American. I think it is probably very difficult for most Asian children to feel 'accepted' and not as if they are a 'misfit'in mainstream America. Even children who were adopted by American born families, most often, showed major signs of insecurities and feelings of 'not fitting in', witnessed from my own personal experience.

I remember my father telling me stories of his service overseas, and in my eagerness to understand and learn about other cultures, I asked why many of the photographs of the beautiful faces he showed me of people of Asian decent, often lowered their eyes, covered their faces, or completely turned away from the camera all together. All were obviously shying away from the camera and obviously did not want to have their picture taken. Dad explained that in their culture having their picture taken 'captured their soul' and was considered wrong. Yet, my own father, many years ago, continued to try to encourage these beautiful people to alter their 'culture' for the sake of images on paper to bring home and show his own people. Even as a child it made my heart hurt for them.
 
  • #595
While I do think that attention must be given to security issues and that there ARE things that can be done to more effectively respond to such situations, there is also a limit. If we are going to live in a free society then we have to accept that sometimes terrible things happen. There is no way to prevent the occasional travesty without becoming a militarized police state -- and I have no desire to be a part of such a state. Those who do might consider moving to Israel where every entrance to every public building has a bomb check, the universities are manned like fortresses, soldiers with uzzis patrol every public square and street, and every gradeschooler is trained to notice and report suspicious objects and people -- and yet still suicide bombers manage to make their way into public spaces to kill innocent victims.

I totally agree. Some people can be helped, some situations can be avoided, but Cho was not one of those. He was going to eventually explode, somewhere, someplace, sometime. There are many Cho's in the world and we never know what tomorrow might bring.
I feel deeply for all those affected by this tragedy, but tragedies are going to happen.
 
  • #596
Here is a link to a YouTube video that has the song his room-mates called "Shine Down". Since they said Collective Soul though, the song would be Shine. Good song, I find it odd that he'd like such an introspective song. Maybe he only heard the guitars though?
 
  • #597
This is part of an email I received today from a friend who lives up there and where I grew up.

"I just wanted to tell you about my day yesterday. We got a call asking for volunteers to go to Tech to help relieve people who were signing up students for counseling. When we got there, our duties had changed dramatically. The families were told that only the medical examiner could officially identify their children. The parents were told to come to us to provide identifying information about their children. It was horrible. My table only had one set of parents. We had the official medical examiner’s forms. I really think it was fair to say that the parents were numb with grief. They were very calm and only wanted to leave with their children’s bodies. The parents are getting angry because the VT President had not spoken with them directly. They are angry with the medical examiner. It is just a horrible thing. I hope that we do not have to go back today!"

Oh Lord in Heaven, wrap Your arms around these parents and these willing volunteers and fill them with some sense of comfort and peace in the understanding that You will heal this pain which our incredibally idiotic 'system' is forcing them to function under in this tragic and grief filled time in their lives. Lord, please be with them......
 
  • #598
I suppose I would be one of those professors that would disagree with you.

How about lecturing students to think out of the box,and teaching them "Yep,you're not in high school anymore,there are ways to express your thoughts,without resorting to the F word.If it must be used,it should be rarely." I think that would help students to think more creatively.

I don't see "thinking out of the box" and not using certain words as compatible. Isn't that putting them into a box?

The F word has it's many uses, depending on the story. If I were teaching students to write, I wouldn't want them to be afraid of any word.
 
  • #599
I don't know what kind of illness Cho was suffering from, but illnesses with a psychotic component (eg schizophrenia) often produce marked cognitive decline. I'm surprised that he was functioning as well as he was. Like that he was showing up for class on time, paying attention to personal hygiene, eating, etc.

Schizophrenia might often be that way, but not always. I'm not a Doctor, but I did have a very dear friend that was diagnosed with schizophrenia. He maintained himself, and most people just meeting him wouldn't know- they would just think he was quiet. (But then, they wouldn't be getting the weird phone calls blaming them for some strange stuff.)
 
  • #600
I am going to take a flying guess here. From all accounts thus far, Cho's parents were upstanding people. We can never know for sure what the family dynamics truly were. They may have not done anything, "wrong" in the way they raised him. He may have been molested as a boy, at a critical time in development, and kept it secret so his parents never knew. Who knows? He was one twisted dude.

Where have you seen information about his parents? I have been watching and reading the news for two days and have found no mention of his family. The only thing about his life before VT that I have learned was that he went to the same high school as two of his victims. This was in another Virginia town (can't remember the name) that has a relatively high number of Asians.
 

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