VA - Virginia Tech Shooting, 32 murdered, 23 injured, 16 April 2007

[Texana]

University of Houston has text messaging for student information/emergencies.

 

[czechmate7]

It takes time to "lock down" a campus, or a small town. It is unrealistic to imagine the VT admin calling for a lockdown and having the campus "immediately being locked down"....and "safe."

But what if they were to put a system around campus similiar to the ones used to alert a town about tornados? Isn't there some kind of alarm that can be set off and sounded over speakers?

 

[Texana]

But what if they were to put a system around campus similiar to the ones used to alert a town about tornados? Isn't there some kind of alarm that can be set off and sounded over speakers?

Exactly!

The nothing's perfect line means we accept the status quo of nothing working at all.

And if there's some chaos that makes it harder for police, it will also be harder for the shooter. People trying to escape or running for cover are a lot harder to shoot than unsuspecting people sitting in a classroom.

 

[Taximom]

But what if they were to put a system around campus similiar to the ones used to alert a town about tornados? Isn't there some kind of alarm that can be set off and sounded over speakers?

I remember Geraldo talking about this w/Mark Fuhrmann(sp) the other night. He brought up the fact that if they had these types of alarms in place that just this week alone they would have gone off 3 times for the bomb scares. At some point, he argued, the students would just start ignoring them.

I don't know what to think, but practically every student has some type of communication device on them in this day and age. I would think cell phones/blackberry's are owned by over 90% of the students on VTech's campus. (IMO)

 

[Reannan]

I work in a very large hospital where we have various "codes" for various situations, i.e. fire, bomb threats, etc. My favorite code is "Code Pink". This announces that a child has been abudcted or a teenager has run away. The entire hospital goes into lock-down in a matter of seconds. Staff members leave their stations and as a description of the missing/abducted person is broadcast over the intercome, we begin to look suspiciously at everyone! (You gotta know, I LOVE that aspect of it!). We practice the various "codes" so we are prepared in case of a real situation. Why can't large campus environments produce a "code" for various situations and practice also? The same hospital I work in, had a prisoner escape a year or so ago, and he wounded a few staff as he was making his get-away. He was ultimately shot and killed by LE as he left the building. I said then, and still do....that we need a system for "Code Smith and Wesson", or something to that effect. It essentially would mean, there is a shooter on the grounds - stay locked in your current position until LE can clear the area.

 

[Taximom]

(Not that Geraldo knows everything-just reporting what he said!)

 

[BeeBee]

You know, I was thinking, (and I really shouldn't do that) why would he scrape off the serial numbers to the guns if he intended to kill himself? That wouldn't make sense. Why would he care then? I thought maybe he started out intending to kill all he could, then run. The filing off of those numbers bother me.

 

[Reannan]

I also heard someone say today that the use of cell phones under a situation like this is very bad....because the cell phone signal itself could possibly initiate a bomb exploding. Anyone with ballistics experience care to counter this idea?

 

[Taximom]

You know, I was thinking, (and I really shouldn't do that) why would he scrape off the serial numbers to the guns if he intended to kill himself? That wouldn't make sense. Why would he care then? I thought maybe he started out intending to kill all he could, then run. The filing off of those numbers bother me.

I shouldn't think either (not that you shouldn't) but that also bothered me. I would think filing those off is a lot of work. :waitasec: He truly was a "question mark".

Weird.

 

[i.b.nora]

They identified him pretty quickly, seems to me. They found the gunshop receipt or business card in his backpack and were at that place yesterday afternoon or early evening.

Someone here last night posted a link to some "gun" type forum, where the guy was saying that the ATF had visited his store. He also mentioned the name "Mr Cho". So, the posting guy was legit, seems to me.

 

[czechmate7]

I remember Geraldo talking about this w/Mark Fuhrmann(sp) the other night. He brought up the fact that if they had these types of alarms in place that just this week alone they would have gone off 3 times for the bomb scares. At some point, he argued, the students would just start ignoring them.

I don't know what to think, but practically every student has some type of communication device on them in this day and age. I would think cell phones/blackberry's are owned by over 90% of the students on VTech's campus. (IMO)

When I was in the Navy we would have bomb threats (seems on a monthly basis) and we would have a routine to follow. Why not have colleges create a system and teach it at orientation to the incoming freshman??
Reannan brought up an excellent idea. I work in a hospital as well and we have a code for everything (Reannan, we used to use "Code Love" if we had an infant/child abduction..I think they are all universal now!!).
Install an intercom system in all the buildings and post the "codes" in all classrooms....

 

[txsvicki]

Cho was a horribly disturbed person and it is very evident by his writings and even the look on his face and his eyes. He was obviously obsessed with killing and getting even with others especially rich kids and older men. The chair of the English department is very admirable because of being so observant, sensible, and her attempts at helping Cho and in trying to get him help. If only something could have been done by the school or his family. Being such a loner, his behavior, and the writings were big red signs and definitely not normal for a young person in his age group.

 

[cheko1]

I was captivated by the interview of Cho's former roomies tonight on CNN. They did everything in their power to first befriend the guy and then report him to others "up the line" when he just got too weird. This guy was a loudly ticking timebomb, and everyone that came in contact with him seemed to notice AND tried to do something about it eventually.

Did anyone see this interview tonight? I can't believe he fell through so many cracks.

They also said he had an imaginary girlfriend named "jelly" (and just who did I think of here at WS?!) or "jilly". I couldn't hear it that well, but it was something like that. The roomies do not think the girl killed in the dorm really knew Cho.

I hope there's a transcript of that interview. It was very interesting, and sad.

I seen it Taximom! It was very interesting.........Cho was also the first person they thought of when they heard it was a Asian shooter. I'm certain they said his imaginary girlfriend was named Jelly. ( I remembered the name because of WS too)

After hearing what the roomies had to say....it makes you wonder how Cho was able to go to school for 4 yrs? He was clearly insane.

 

[Spazkat9696]

i know a lot of people have been asking why they didn't lock down the campus after the first shooting -- its probably more complicated than it seems. i'm a senior at a university, and just thinking about what would happen logistically if they locked down campus at 8am... heres my thought

there are 26,000 students, and im sure only a fraction live on campus. most will commute. classes generally start around 8 or 9, so you figure people leave sometime before that. there's a shooting at 7:30, and the gunman is possibly on the loose. if all the buildings are locked down (ie. no one entering or leaving), what do you do about the probably over 5,000 people arriving on campus with nowhere to go? they'll congregate somewhere, and if there really is a gunman on the loose -- imagine shooting into that.

or, say the administration says "emergency, buildings locked, go home" -- chaos. what would people think? bomb, etc. especially after the bomb threats. or, if they say, here's a safe place, everyone arriving go to this building or this field - if they still don't know the gunman's identity he could easily go into whatever building or lecture hall undetected.

the administration probably thought they were making the best decision by not locking down the campus early, so they did not cause panic and could lower the probability of anyone else being hurt. if students are going about as if it was a normal day, and one person is acting erratically (considering he just murdered 2 people), that's a tip-off for police. also, students were not confined or gathered in particular areas, so just numerically there would be less of a chance for mass casualties.

sadly, this massacre still happened. and it is terrible, and i grieve for the innocent loss of life, and it really makes me question my safety here at a big, trusting school. but i am not sure that a lockdown would have changed anything in this situation - and in fact i imagine it could have made it worse.

I agree the lock down would have caused more issuse than most think. However, most tech students live on campus, I go to a school in Va where most commute because my school is in a urban area, tech is pretty much most of the city. Also the police thought they had the shooter for the first 2 pulled over on the interstate when the 2ed shooting started.

 

[KatK]

What you are failing to grasp, is that Cho tested the security measures with bomb threats. Don't you think he'd have known exactly what would happen in a "lockdown" and been able to spot any flaws or holes? I don't think a campus full of paniced fleeing students would be conducive to a search for an unknown suspect, armed and dangerous. That would be perfect camoflauge. You are right in that there does need to be some kind of procedure in place, but wrong in thinking that it would be much of a help against a determined person bent on havoc. It would more be a "security blanket" than anything, there to make us feel safer, not so much to make it so. They'd have to institute a method much more like a fire drill, where sections in a certain order calmly file out, and each section in turn moves in the que. That still would be like lining up ducks for someone focused on killing.

 

[KatK]

Coming back to say, the death toll could be reduced if the "fire drill" like procedures were implemented though. Have each faculty member have some kind of walkie talkie device (cell phone things maybe?) and teach the students to scatter if shots ring out. That would make it harder, and the faculty could summon help. That might help tip the scales, *IF* people stayed calm and didn't panic. But, there could also be a stampeding crowd of panicing students trampling each other and getting picked off.

I don't want to imagine what kind of "realistic" practice drills it might take to ensure everyone stays level headed though. I mean, having the students not know if it's real or not, and have a trained person with blanks firing rounds, to evaluate how they perform under the stresses, then have the students take inventory and work out what they can each to better. It's a sad, sad day when such things begin to seem like they may be needful.

 

[Shadow205]

You know, I was thinking, (and I really shouldn't do that) why would he scrape off the serial numbers to the guns if he intended to kill himself? That wouldn't make sense. Why would he care then? I thought maybe he started out intending to kill all he could, then run. The filing off of those numbers bother me.

BeeBee,
There has been mention by both teachers and students that Cho seemed to have a problem with "identity", instead of signing his name on a sign in sheet, he put a "?". I think that in his sick way of thinking, removing the serial numbers was an issue with identity.

 

[Cypros]

Coming back to say, the death toll could be reduced if the "fire drill" like procedures were implemented though. Have each faculty member have some kind of walkie talkie device (cell phone things maybe?) and teach the students to scatter if shots ring out. That would make it harder, and the faculty could summon help. That might help tip the scales, *IF* people stayed calm and didn't panic. But, there could also be a stampeding crowd of panicing students trampling each other and getting picked off.

I have enough books and papers and visual aids to lug across campus to classes every day to then also have to carry an extra walkie talkie device (which I would have to keep charged, I assume) with me in the remote chance that someone on campus may go postal. It is also unrealistic to expect colleges to have code drills and to have students learn the code system at orientation. They are taxed enough to grasp the basics of campus life -- location of classes, rules of conduct, student ID, getting to know new dorm mates, new teachers, newfound freedom -- I doubt that a complex code system would make much of an impression.

While I do think that attention must be given to security issues and that there ARE things that can be done to more effectively respond to such situations, there is also a limit. If we are going to live in a free society then we have to accept that sometimes terrible things happen. There is no way to prevent the occasional travesty without becoming a militarized police state -- and I have no desire to be a part of such a state. Those who do might consider moving to Israel where every entrance to every public building has a bomb check, the universities are manned like fortresses, soldiers with uzzis patrol every public square and street, and every gradeschooler is trained to notice and report suspicious objects and people -- and yet still suicide bombers manage to make their way into public spaces to kill innocent victims.

 

[Cypros]

Has anybody heard an explanation for the chained doors at Norris Hall? To me, that is the most incomprehensible aspect of the attack. How many of the doors of that building were chained? Were the chains already in place on the doors? Did Cho have his own padlocks for the chains? I am very curious to learn more about this.

 

[KatK]

Cho chained them, he brought chain with him, sections of the same chain were found on his corpse. I don't know about the padlocks, they weren't specifically mentioned.