VA - Virginia Tech Shooting, 32 murdered, 23 injured, 16 April 2007

[angelwngs]

A psychologist on one of the cable news stations made a very valid point, IMO.

When asked, "Why Cho?", he replied, 'There is no way to identify young children who will grow up to do this type of horrific act of violence against humanity. It is when a child evolves. First, there is the earthquake, then the large powerful wave, that grows and grows and grows and turns into a Tsunami.'

IMO, all things align precisely at the right time and in the right way to create total dysfunction, a mistfit in society, feelings of worthlessness, the need to control his enviornment on some level, continued and repetitive, 'self-imposed' rejection of people-(by choice or as a result of agressive actions), with any offers of assistance from others thought to be 'too little too late', to all culminate in a horrific explosion of outwardly experssed anger.

And as badly as we hate to admit it, I think, in my heart of hearts, that the element of 'evil'; the element of 'JUST PLAIN MEAN', must be there from birth, as well.

Genetics + evolution + total dysfunction + repression of anger = nutcase

What actually triggers the 'nutcase' to act in such a horrific crime against humanity is a totally different question?

 

[cheko1]

It seems as soon as we post something, a new development comes up with more information on this guy which does make the scenario worse. If that court ruling in 2005 declared him a "danger to himself and others" then the university definitely should've expelled him ~ but then also why wasn't he kept in the mental facility or at the minimum more closely watched? And again, why was there nothing to prevent him from buying those firearms?

As for McVeigh, even he didn't operate alone and there weren't the 'red flags'.

I SO AGREE with you..........I simply can't comprehend why the university didn't expell him. They had every reason in the world to do it.

I don't understand in the video / or his ramblings he is yelling about the rich people. Yet his sister works for the government & she has to make very good money.

The gun laws definately need reconstructed. No mentally ill person should be allowed to purchase a gun!!!!!! Since he appeared normal nobody questioned it / no US citizen just give him anything he wants.No wonder the terrorists love coming to the US they can all get away with cold blooded murder.

 

[cheko1]

It may be too easy to acquire guns but if he couldn't get one legally, he might have tried to get one illegally. (Given his poor social skills he probably wouldn't have been able to find someone to get him a gun illegally.)

Failing that, he could have gone on the internet and found out how to make bombs or some other horrible way of getting his maniacal message across.

Your so correct Taximom!

 

[cheko1]

I can't help but wonder how in the world could his folks pay for 2 kids to go to college? His sister went to Princeton... I understand there are grants / student loans etc Its apparent Cho "never" worked or as of yet no News media stated he had a job ever. I can't buy the fact owning or having a dry cleaning business they could afford the expense of 2 kids at college or am I missing something here?

I'm sure his family is mortified over these events...but someone from his family should express sympathy to the families of his victims.

 

[angelwngs]

I can't help but wonder how in the world could his folks pay for 2 kids to go to college? His sister went to Princeton... I understand there are grants / student loans etc Its apparent Cho "never" worked or as of yet no News media stated he had a job ever. I can't buy the fact owning or having a dry cleaning business they could afford the expense of 2 kids at college or am I missing something here?

I'm sure his family is mortified over these events...but someone from his family should express sympathy to the families of his victims.

At one point I heard that his father was planning to release a statement...

Did that never happen? Was there no truth to that rumor at all???

This could go in the column of explainations as to why Cho turned out the way he did.

~Lack of communication outside the home.

~Inability to outwardly express emotions.

If this is what he was role modeled, IT AIN'T GOOD!

 

[concernedperson]

I can't help but wonder how in the world could his folks pay for 2 kids to go to college? His sister went to Princeton... I understand there are grants / student loans etc Its apparent Cho "never" worked or as of yet no News media stated he had a job ever. I can't buy the fact owning or having a dry cleaning business they could afford the expense of 2 kids at college or am I missing something here?

I'm sure his family is mortified over these events...but someone from his family should express sympathy to the families of his victims.

I have thought about that too. I don't think Cho could hold down a job if he ever tried to get one. My former MIL had a couple of dry cleaning businesses and she did quite well...mostly cash. But, she was pretty shady so I imagine she delved into other things.

I understand the family is in hiding from the media but I heard a snippet about the grandfather wishing he would have died before this happened. I would imagine they would have to be careful as they do have another child and she certainly didn't help her brother pull the trigger.

 

[cheko1]

At one point I heard that his father was planning to release a statement...

Did that never happen? Was there no truth to that rumor at all???

This could go in the column of explainations as to why Cho turned out the way he did.

~Lack of communication outside the home.

~Inability to outwardly express emotions.

If this is what he was role modeled, IT AIN'T GOOD!

I just heard on Fox that Cho's uncle stated his parents are very well. They also reported his sister does work for the govt. The Uncle said he was called a "PRINCE" by his folks. Did anyone else hear that report?

But as of yet no remorse from the family??? They know our culture well enough to live in our country & be able to go to our Universities. They could very well put a end to much of the speculation. I feel the families of the murdered victims definately would feel "some" better if they got a apology from his family.

I was so mad that his family called him a PRINCE to the media, I was shaking! Once again I might be wrong but in my eyes the little puke should of been made to work like the victims he murdered. Instead he was handed the world on a silver platter. Yes I understand he had a mental illness & never thought like normal people. But on the other hand he wasn't ill enough to plan the worlds worst massacre at a school. Ok I'm done ranting!!!! :slap:

Ignoring what the

 

[cheko1]

I have thought about that too. I don't think Cho could hold down a job if he ever tried to get one. My former MIL had a couple of dry cleaning businesses and she did quite well...mostly cash. But, she was pretty shady so I imagine she delved into other things.

I understand the family is in hiding from the media but I heard a snippet about the grandfather wishing he would have died before this happened. I would imagine they would have to be careful as they do have another child and she certainly didn't help her brother pull the trigger.

Its reported his sister works for the US govt & in a very good position. I understand they need to be careful for her & themselves. I heard the sister was going to go to Harvard but it was to expensive. Maybe the sister helped pay Cho's way to college. It just baffles me.

I agree Cho probably couldn't ever hold down a job. But he had to much time on his hands to feed his sickness also. Then again maybe I don't understand mental illness very well.

 

[fundiva]

I can't help but wonder how in the world could his folks pay for 2 kids to go to college? His sister went to Princeton... I understand there are grants / student loans etc Its apparent Cho "never" worked or as of yet no News media stated he had a job ever. I can't buy the fact owning or having a dry cleaning business they could afford the expense of 2 kids at college or am I missing something here?

I'm sure his family is mortified over these events...but someone from his family should express sympathy to the families of his victims.

I thought it was interesting as well that both he and his sister went to such good schools on their parent's income. I also wondered why Cho lived at the school all four years at the school, when his parents lived a short distance away. It seems like the majority of the students drove to school from surrounding communities. It makes me wonder why the parents would back the additional expense when he could have commuted. One of his roommates also said that he had made the comment he should kill himself just before a school break; they decided to tell police because they knew he never went home on breaks, but instead stayed at school by himself. That was interesting to me that he would not travel a short distance to spend time at home during a break. Makes me wonder how often, if at all, that he did see his parents. My guess is they didn't have the understanding he was mental and just he was a little weird and didn't want him around much either. My FIL was diagnosed as paranoid schizophrenic a couple of years ago after his wife died. Or at least that's when his kids found out. Evidently he had been diagnosed years before, but had not told the kids or anybody else. The kids just knew he had "anger episodes" and tried to avoid the situation.

 

[SewingDeb]

Several videos here:

http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/popup/?rn=49750&cl=2432995&ch=68276&src=news

There is one article (will try to find it) where the family members in Korea are very upset that he could do this and very remorseful. Services are being held there for the victims.

 

[SewingDeb]

Here it is:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/virginia_tech_skorea;_ylt=AuJAse9IFbBM5Va6bnBeCBhH2ocA



Relatives said they had minimal contact with the family after they left South Korea.

"How could he have done such a thing if he had any sympathy for his parents, who went all the way to another country because they couldn't make ends meet and endured hardships," Cho's maternal grandfather, identified only by his last name Kim, was quoted as saying.

The 81-year-old Kim said Cho "troubled his parents a lot when he was young because he couldn't speak well, but was well-behaved," the report said.

Kim said he had little communication with Cho's family after they left for the U.S.

Cho's uncle — his mother's younger brother — also told the newspaper that he was unaware of how Cho's family was doing.

"I don't even know my sister's phone number," the uncle said, adding he last talked to Cho's mother in October, the report said.

"Before she emigrated in 1992, she told me she was leaving for her childrens' education. Since she emigrated, I haven't seen her for nearly 15 years," the uncle — also identified by just his last name Kim — was quoted as saying.

 

[Lesleegp]

I also wondered why Cho lived at the school all four years at the school, when his parents lived a short distance away. It seems like the majority of the students drove to school from surrounding communities. It makes me wonder why the parents would back the additional expense when he could have commuted.

Centreville, VA is a four hour drive from Blacksburg, VA.

 

[SewingDeb]

Professor had expelled gunman from class

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/virginia_tech_poet_professor;_ylt=AhOe87Png216snL4zTnwr7L9xg8F

 

[Shadow205]

1. <LI id=mqresult-1>Centreville, VA, US Fairfax County
   <LI id=mqresult-2>Centerville, VA, US Goochland County
   <LI id=mqresult-3>Centreville, VA, US Louisa County
   <LI id=mqresult-4>Centerville, VA, US Accomack County
   <LI id=mqresult-5>Centerville, VA, US Augusta County
   <LI id=mqresult-6>Centerville, VA, US Bedford County
   <LI id=mqresult-7>Centerville, VA, US Halifax County
   <LI id=mqresult-8>Centerville, VA, US James City County
   <LI id=mqresult-9>Centerville, VA, US Montgomery County
2. Contreville, VA, US Louisa County
   • I see now why there has been some confusion about how far his family lived from VA Tech. Like Lesleegp said the Centreville where Cho lived was about 4 hours from Blacksburg, just outside of Washington,DC.

 

[cheko1]

I thought it was interesting as well that both he and his sister went to such good schools on their parent's income. I also wondered why Cho lived at the school all four years at the school, when his parents lived a short distance away. It seems like the majority of the students drove to school from surrounding communities. It makes me wonder why the parents would back the additional expense when he could have commuted. One of his roommates also said that he had made the comment he should kill himself just before a school break; they decided to tell police because they knew he never went home on breaks, but instead stayed at school by himself. That was interesting to me that he would not travel a short distance to spend time at home during a break. Makes me wonder how often, if at all, that he did see his parents. My guess is they didn't have the understanding he was mental and just he was a little weird and didn't want him around much either. My FIL was diagnosed as paranoid schizophrenic a couple of years ago after his wife died. Or at least that's when his kids found out. Evidently he had been diagnosed years before, but had not told the kids or anybody else. The kids just knew he had "anger episodes" and tried to avoid the situation.

I'm glad someone else sees what I do..... I also find it very interesting if he was the PRINCE why his folks never called him or went to see him? At least according to his roomies at school. Even his sister she never wanted to see her brother? They must not of wanted to deal with him so sent him off to school & let others deal with his sickness. A total cop out to me.

I'm very sorry to hear about youir FIL / I do understand it's hard to live with these things.

 

[Taximom]

I thought perhaps the parents of Cho were too "shy" (culturally) to suddenly be in the media. I think Korean culture has a lot to do with why we haven't seen or heard from them yet. A message might be considerate, but I bet they are in as much shock as most of us. How long did it take for the parents of Klebold and Harris to get their message out? I know they weren't seen publically for quite a while.

I found this interesting after hearing that he avoided eye contact, even with peers:
http://www.ediplomat.com/np/cultural_etiquette/ce_kr.htm

Direct eye contact between junior and senior businesspeople should be avoided. This is seen as impolite or even as a challenge. (more interesting things at the site)

Granted, Cho was brought up in the States for many years, but that doesn't mean his parents didn't expect him to be "Korean" at home.

Of course, avoiding eye contact could have just been part of his mental problem, along with his obvious lack of social skills.

 

[cheko1]

Here it is:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/virginia_tech_skorea;_ylt=AuJAse9IFbBM5Va6bnBeCBhH2ocA



Relatives said they had minimal contact with the family after they left South Korea.

"How could he have done such a thing if he had any sympathy for his parents, who went all the way to another country because they couldn't make ends meet and endured hardships," Cho's maternal grandfather, identified only by his last name Kim, was quoted as saying.

The 81-year-old Kim said Cho "troubled his parents a lot when he was young because he couldn't speak well, but was well-behaved," the report said.

Kim said he had little communication with Cho's family after they left for the U.S.

Cho's uncle — his mother's younger brother — also told the newspaper that he was unaware of how Cho's family was doing.

"I don't even know my sister's phone number," the uncle said, adding he last talked to Cho's mother in October, the report said.

"Before she emigrated in 1992, she told me she was leaving for her childrens' education. Since she emigrated, I haven't seen her for nearly 15 years," the uncle — also identified by just his last name Kim — was quoted as saying.

It sounds like the family in Korea feels worse then the family living in the US. At least they have made statements. I understand that sympathy will not bring the deceased back nor do much for the families now. But in due time it might be a comfort.

 

[Taximom]

It sounds like the family in Korea feels worse then the family living in the US. At least they have made statements. I understand that sympathy will not bring the deceased back nor do much for the families now. But in due time it might be a comfort.

I think the lack of communication (15 yrs?!) between the two families says A LOT about their family dynamics. And it's not a good thing.

 

[angelmom]

I totally agree with this concept. That's what got me last night when hearing the professor say "there's nothing I could do". Why not? Why was he still at the university if there had been previous problems? I'm tired of this "too little, too late" attitude. Do something before 32 innocent people lose their lives!

I think the professor went to authorities - even police. It was THEY who said they couldn't do anything.

I should think any professor should be able to kick out a student (of class). Instead this professor tried to help; went to authorities, and I guess left it there. She knew he was very disturbed.

She and other professors could have flunked him, at least he would have had to leave.

Yes, I stand corrected on that part ~ it was LE who couldn't do anything since he hadn't yet committed a crime. However I do think the university could've done more.

I think if he had been flunked he would have returned just the same.

But it does just baffle and frustrate that "nothing" could be done.

I guess since there is no longer involuntary commitment to mental institutions now--unless you have done something criminal you can be released on your own recognizance--we cannot just lock up people who threaten to kill other people.

Until they do kill other people.

That does seem just, well, wrong, obviously.

One of his prof's, Niki Giovanni, said she told her higher up's that she refused to let him stay in her class and that he had to go or she would. So, I assume by this he was kicked out of her class.

It's like being stuck between the rock and hard place. You're right, if the university had expelled him he'd probably come back and blown up the place. And in fairness to others who wouldn't have gone out and killed people as he did, it's good that people can't be locked up in mental hospitals without cause. However I do think that threatening to kill others shouldn't be ignored either. I don't know what the right answer is, but in hindsight I think a lot of people are going to be searching for it.

I'm hearing tonight on MSNBC, that the Court in 2005 declared him incompetent and a "danger to himself and others".

If that's true, then there's no excuse for letting him back in that school. Dr. Susan Lipkins, a pschologist specializing in school violence referred to him as probably "schizophrenic", or "paranoid schizophrenic". There are so many numerous complaints against him, this is just looking worse and worse.
...

Lipkins said there should definitely be a school system in place for preventing such an act from a deranged student.

It looks to me like they had an administration that did not take the professors seriously enough.

Some admins are sympathetic and respect their professors, others do not - but prefer the politicians and parents who feed their coffers. They live in one world, the professors live in their classroom world.

It seems as soon as we post something, a new development comes up with more information on this guy which does make the scenario worse. If that court ruling in 2005 declared him a "danger to himself and others" then the university definitely should've expelled him ~ but then also why wasn't he kept in the mental facility or at the minimum more closely watched? And again, why was there nothing to prevent him from buying those firearms?

As for McVeigh, even he didn't operate alone and there weren't the 'red flags'.

He was taking pictures of the girls legs with his cellphone??? They refused to come to class??? And yet HE was allowed to stay, and even the professors were afraid of him?

What about all the other teachers that had him? Did they just put up with him and pass him on? This makes my blood boil.

I SO AGREE with you..........I simply can't comprehend why the university didn't expell him. They had every reason in the world to do it.

Heard the answer to all of these posts...the university's hands were tied thanks to the VA legislature and a student who sued.

Apparently it is illegal to suspend or expel a student who is mentally unstable, has expressed suicidal thoughts or attempts suicide. This law was passed unanimously after a student expressed a desire to commit suicide was sent home, and sued the school.

http://media.www.gwhatchet.com/medi...cide.Law.Lobbyist.Cites.Nott.Gw-2786619.shtml

 

[angelwngs]

I'm glad someone else sees what I do..... I also find it very interesting if he was the PRINCE why his folks never called him or went to see him? At least according to his roomies at school. Even his sister she never wanted to see her brother? They must not of wanted to deal with him so sent him off to school & let others deal with his sickness. A total cop out to me.

I'm very sorry to hear about youir FIL / I do understand it's hard to live with these things.

Have we evolved into a society of apathetic,
non-responsive, non-responsible humans, going back and forth to work everyday, just to try to make enough money to pay the bills with a portion of our society totally giving up and not working at all, allowing the government to pay their up keep???

What are we doing to our children?

Do parents no longer take the time to involve themselves in the lives of their own children? Has socially interacting on a regular basis between Extended Family members, and close (neighborhood friends), become virtually a thing of the past? Does The Norman Rockwell Painting of the American Family, (actually of our World), no longer exist?

Have we, as a society, successfully destroyed it and in its place have we created.......self-serving, dysfunctional children who grow up to punish society for 'its failings' with the carnage we witnessed this week?

Do we daily suck up to our own 'addictions' (TV, Internet, Drugs, Alcohol, Prescription Meds, Sex, Shopping, Gambling, Food, Sports, etc) as if we are holding on to our own 'old worn and tattered security blanket from childhood' in the hopes that it will make everything all better, at least, until morning...when we once again have to awaken to do the same thing over again.........

If we repeat this scenerio through enough generations, leaving the children to comfort and nurture themselves, to develop their own moral code and ethics and to discipline themselves,.....what will be the result?

Will it be... 32 X's 32 X's 32 DEAD on the campus of another yet 'Virginia Tech'...

Has our society has become far too 'silently complacent' and far too 'politically correct'?

In my opinion:

'Complacent Silence' = Ignoring Reality


'Politically Correctness' = 'Semantically Lying'

Maybe it was genetics plus enviornment which created 'Cho'.

We may never know, but when are we as a society going to WAKE UP and ACT to help the 'Cho's of this World' get the help that they desperately need?

When are we going to ACT to help KEEP other humans SAFE from these INSANE outward acts of rage upon society???