Verdict Watch

[Zamboni]

jury wants to see a bunch of photos again. Probably wants side by side of shirts (not asked for side by side, but consecutively on list.)

 

[happy2binNC]

Jury requests:

still-frame photo or frozen video of JLY at Cracker Barrel as he leaves counter, clearly showing shoes.

still-frame photo of JLY in HI

photo of clothes defendant was wearing during CY 3rd birthday party

crime scene photos of CY bathroom

photos of Hampton Inn emergency exit from a distance

911 transcript

LabCorp reports

Ebay and MapQuest documents

Email to GC

 

[Zamboni]

Nine requests to review evidence.

JS going to allow them to see as much as they want to see.

 

[gracielee]

Questions:

would like to see still frame photo of the cracker barrel clearly showing his shoes

still frame photo of defendent walking in hallway of HI at midnight

see photo of clothes def. wearing during Cass birthday party

crime scene photos of cass bathroom

photos of HI emergency exit, view from right of exit

want to review and discuss 911 transcript written only

states exhibit 75, lab corp

would like ebay and map quest docs.

email to genevivve cargol ( sp? )

Judges discretion is to allow the jurors to see all this evidence

 

[Zamboni]

Defense wants Crackle Barrel video stopped by a "neutral party" for viewing.

JS says it should be stopped where the jury wants it to be stopped.

 

[ncsu95]

Yup, the third guy, Rudy?? was a known burglar, fled the country the very next day after the murder. Amanda Knox and her bf fell under suspicion because of their somewhat odd behaviors afterwards. I mean, who does cart=wheels in the police station. :banghead:

The prosecutors in Amandas trial did some unbelievably shady crap too. They told her she had acquired HIV and needed a list of all the people she had slept with to let them know. They then released that to the news. That got the Italian people completely against her because she looked like a tramp. She did not and does not have HIV.

But Rudy G's DNA was all over that room but hers was not. You can't selectively clean up DNA. Her boyfriends wasn't either. She is absolutely innocent. I'm more certain of her innocence than JLYs guilt.

 

[Luna24]

Jury requests:

still-frame photo or frozen video of JLY at Cracker Barrel as he leaves counter, clearly showing shoes.

still-frame photo of JLY in HI

photo of clothes defendant was wearing during C's 3rd birthday party

crime scene photos of C's bathroom

photos of Hampton Inn emergency exit from a distance

911 transcript

LabCorp reports

Ebay and MapQuest documents

Email to GC

thanks for the info.

question - did either prosecutor address in their CS that the shirts were different from the birthday party to the hotel video. I think it was pretty clear they have a different collar?

 

[Skittles]

1. Still frame photo or video from cracker barrel showing shoes. Judge wants to show them the video.
2. Still frame of JLY walking in Hampton Inn hallway at midnight
3. Photos of JLY clothes from C's 3rd birthday # 103 and 104
4. C's bathroom photos
5. Photo of Hampton Inn emergency exit from distance, particularly to the right of the exit.
6. 911 transcript
7. State exhib 75 - lab report
8. eBay and mapquest printouts
9. GC email.

 

[Zamboni]

I am stunned that the jury can't have any evidence (not even photocopies of emails) in the jury room. Strange law to me; it was different in the state where I served. We had all the evidence with us in the jury room except the cocaine.

 

[happy2binNC]

I am stunned that the jury can't have any evidence (not even photocopies of emails) in the jury room. Strange law to me; it was different in the state where I served. We had all the evidence with us in the jury room except the cocaine.

I agree. They can't discuss anything in the courtroom. It would be much easier for deliberations to be able to point to something specific (perhaps the different shirt JLY was wearing??) and say "See? That is a different shirt! Look at the collar!"

 

[Boodles]

I am stunned that the jury can't have any evidence (not even photocopies of emails) in the jury room. Strange law to me; it was different in the state where I served. We had all the evidence with us in the jury room except the cocaine.

I know, it's crazy.

 

[Zamboni]

JS seems calmer, says it's the first time he's ever had a list of requests that begin each item with:
"If possible . . . "
He thought that is nice to see.

 

[fran]

Judge: He will allow them to see as much as he can

1. Still frame photo of cracker barrell..........showing his shoes! Judge doesn't know if photo shows shoes. Him paying and walking away, ................giving them video, obj? to that point and stopped.............?.......they'll play it and foreperson tell them when they want it stopped. Best they can do. no objedction.........we don't know exactly what they're interested in and they can tell us when they want it stopped.

2. Still frame, photo video of him walking in HI at midnite. Can we stop it that way? they're still photos, can you stop those? OK

3. Photo of clothes def was wearing during C's third bday party? objections? ok.

4. crime scene photo's of C's bathroom and all photos etc of ............ok

5. photos of HI emergency exit, exterior. that are in evidence. they'll have to pick out which one they want to see. ok

6. review and discuss the 911 transcript.......ok...........can review them in courtroom but can't discuss.

7. labcorps report..............on medicine? ok

8. ebay and mapquest documents...............published? please make sure whatever doc in evidence from either side for these, they have chance to see. they'll pass copies and pass the original during process so they can see it when it was processed. wants them to see the originals...ok

9. Ms cargill email..............ok

judge, we can comply and they need to know they will tell us if there's others or these are the right ones. still photos etc.....as they see it when to stop and move it, etc.

alright..........see if lunch and get back and see how many of these requests we can comply immediately. the rest will be delayed. any other idea

first time judge has had a jury make a request 'if possible.' the idea we wouldn't be able to do this is nice to contimplate. recess until 2:45 (lunch)

 

[RaleighNative]

There's been a nagging thought in the back of my head that he had help. If he went there to strangle her, he wasn't expecting a bloody mess. How then could he have anticipated needing another pair of shoes?

I think I have an explanation after thinking on this for several days. I believe he turned on the hose when he entered the house to make mud (just a trickle from the hose is all that he needed) , planning to make some muddy size 10 footprints for the police to discover. When things went awry and he ended up with a bloody crime scene, it worked out even better for him to make prints with the size 10s.

Just my:twocents:.

Is the pros theory that he simply went into strangle her, or that he planned to knock her out and THEN strangle her? They did put a lot of emphasis on the "anatomy of a knockout" Yahoo! search.

Either way, I think he entered the house with the murder weapon (since it's never been found and nothing was obviously missing). I wouldn't be surprised if he did expect blood.

However, I don't think he had any idea it would take 30+ blows and failed strangulation to complete the deed. The thought of her suffering through that murder...which must have been prolonged...makes me shudder.

 

[gracielee]

It's a similar case of circumstantial evidence and a jury verdict of guilt. If jury verdicts are to be considered unreliable, then are those that disagree with the verdict - as in the Cooper case and possibly in this case - wearing tinfoil hats, or are they viewing the evidence differently ... such that circumstantial evidence should be overlooked and juries get it all wrong?

The difference is, in the amanda knox case there is no long history between victim and she and/or her bf. There was absolutely no motive for them to have been involved. I see the amanda knox case more like the orig. Natalee Holloway arrests of the two black security guards, who were eventually released. There was no lengthy list of circumstantial evidence tied to either Knox or her bf. Other than a couple, literally *couple* of tainted pieces of evidence, IIRC, the supposed knife, and the bra hook was it, the cops had nothing.

 

[borndem]

jury wants to see a bunch of photos again. Probably wants side by side of shirts (not asked for side by side, but consecutively on list.)

Somebody contact JTF -- they need him NOW!! What a guy, he read the juror's minds before they knew they were gonna ask for it!

We are indeed in the presence of greatness -- The Great Carnack
Re-incarnackated.

:woohoo:

:goldcrown:
:bowdown::bowdown:



JMO, of course...

 

[otto]

BBM
otto-The Cooper's weren't married because of pregnancy. They married quickly because Brad had gotten the job in NC and they had to be married if Nancy was going to be able to come with him on his work visa.

Right ... thanks! ... quickyl married because Brad was moving to NC for work.

 

[otto]

I'm interested too... even tho OT for Madeleine's :twocents: .

I think it helps to put some of the generalizations in context. If people that doubt a jury verdict are tinfoil hatters when it comes to the murders of Nancy Cooper and possibly Michelle Young, but completely rational when it comes to the murder of Mereideth Kercher, I, for one, am very curious about where the lines are drawn. If circumstantial evidence, absent direct evidence between the accused and the crime scene, are good enough for spousal homicides, then why not for roommate homicides. Again, I am curious about where the lines are drawn.

 

[Zamboni]

However, I don't think he had any idea it would take 30+ blows and failed strangulation to complete the deed. The thought of her suffering through that murder...which must have been prolonged...makes me shudder.

It makes me shudder, too, RaleighNative. My friend who works in Emergency Rooms (in big cities) says that Hollywood often gives people a false impression of how much effort it will take to kill someone.

In the movies, strangulation death takes 20-30 seconds, max, and a single knife wound or small caliber gunshot wound sends the victim "plum to their knees" and then they crumple to their death in moments. In the real world, it takes several minutes to strangle someone to death, and they will struggle mightily the entire time. When someone is stabbed with a knife, the first blow is almost never lethal, and even if it is, the death isn't instantaneous and the victim really puts up a fight. So someone who might have been planning to stab someone only once ends up stabbing dozens of times. I still don't think it took him very long to deliver those blows once he got going. So many of them being to the back of her head means that she might have been asleep on her stomach for the first blow and then must have been unconscious or trying to crawl away for most of the rest of them. Poor lady.

 

[happy2binNC]

Speculation as to why they want the things they want:

Cracker Barrel video: they specifically said they want to see his shoes. I see this as + for prosecution.

Video of JLY at Hampton Inn: Looking at shoes again, or to compare shirt with birthday party photo. If they look closely, + for prosecution. Shirts are NOT identical.

Photo of HI exterior: Taking a closer look at whether he could reach a bush without letting the door close?? They wanted to see to the right side of that door, perhaps they want to know if there's a tree or bush off to that side? If there is no photo that shows that side of the door, this is neutral. If a photo exists that shows no foliage within arms length (except for Mr. Fantastic!), + for prosecution

Photos of C's bathroom and 911 transcript: wanting to review C's condition and cleanliness during 911 call vs. condition of bathroom? This was a big point made by the defense in closing but I see it as a + for prosecution. What murderer other than JLY himself would have cleaned the child?

I don't have an opinion on who the LabCorp report helps, or the Ebay/Mapquest stuff.

MOO