WA - 3 children, ages 13, 9 and 7, among 5 killed inside Fall City home, 15 y.o. in custody - 21 October 2024

[Charlot123]

Yep. I posted about that a few times.

First time HERE.

Second time HERE.

This is what i am asking myself. Obviously, the view of the world by the two generations of the family can be opposite.

Would a good counselor have helped? I can see both sides struggling. The parents, trying to raise the kids in accordance with personal conservative values but in a more open state. The kids, likely, wanting exposure to the bigger world.

To add to it the enormous stress of homeschooling kids and you can see why the mother was stressed out. JMO, she was probably too tired.

There exist therapists who are able to be great guides in such situations. The choice might be smaller for this family, but they exist. One wonders: what if the father didn't take it upon himself to severe the son's relationship with the other family but negotiated the situation with the son via a good therapist? So many situations are negotiable and we all trade horses in life.

 

[Kemug]

I wonder if the timing of the family's move to such a fairly isolated and strict life coincided with the parents first realising that there was something really wrong with their eldest child? Just an idea.

 

[sunflowermomma]

Personally, I'll need to hear more in court to buy the victim's isolation story. He's already lied and said his brother committed the murders and the story changed to religious isolation after that didn't pan out for him. JMO.

 

[Sundog]

One more, do you think this kid can be rehabilitated to the degree he could be released one day?

<snipped for focus>

Unfortunately, from my experience as a former licensed and court appointed professional in this field, this kid is not a good candidate for rehabilitation in the juvenile system.

He should be charged as an adult and justice should be served for the murder of his parents and siblings.

 

[Sundog]

This is what i am asking myself. Obviously, the view of the world by the two generations of the family can be opposite.

Would a good counselor have helped? I can see both sides struggling. The parents, trying to raise the kids in accordance with personal conservative values but in a more open state. The kids, likely, wanting exposure to the bigger world.

To add to it the enormous stress of homeschooling kids and you can see why the mother was stressed out. JMO, she was probably too tired.

There exist therapists who are able to be great guides in such situations. The choice might be smaller for this family, but they exist. One wonders: what if the father didn't take it upon himself to severe the son's relationship with the other family but negotiated the situation with the son via a good therapist? So many situations are negotiable and we all trade horses in life.

I think we have to be really careful about imposing our own values onto others. This family had their values and they aren't responsible in any way for the family annihilation at the hands of this son. Homeschooling is quite a normal choice in our society, regardless of where you live; parents make choices about appropriate relationships outside of the home in many families and their children deal with it. Think of Amish children, Amish don't interact on a personal level with the so-called "English" (non-Amish). Etc., etc. And they don't need to get counseling in order to conform to others' lifestyles.

The only thing that I can see that was problematic was that this kid had access to a gun. If anything, the parents' trust in him was misguided.

 

[Megnut]

Personally, I'll need to hear more in court to buy the victim's isolation story. He's already lied and said his brother committed the murders and the story changed to religious isolation after that didn't pan out for him. JMO.

And there's no universe where even extreme isolation explains murdering one's young siblings. He wasn't murdering perceived oppressors to free the children.

He was going to annihilate all of them and IMO for no other reason that he is a disturbed and angry miscreant. Killing children was especially unhinged.

Not a house of horrors. We've seen those. With no beds. Trash. Feces. Neglect.

This was not that.

Family paid the price but they may actually have taken the bullets that would have been the next school shooting.

He just blew up his home school.

JMO

JMO

 

[Knox]

I think we have to be really careful about imposing our own values onto others. This family had their values and they aren't responsible in any way for the family annihilation at the hands of this son. Homeschooling is quite a normal choice in our society, regardless of where you live; parents make choices about appropriate relationships outside of the home in many families and their children deal with it. Think of Amish children, Amish don't interact on a personal level with the so-called "English" (non-Amish). Etc., etc. And they don't need to get counseling in order to conform to others' lifestyles.

The only thing that I can see that was problematic was that this kid had access to a gun. If anything, the parents' trust in him was misguided.

I get the need some OP are expressing to understand the why. But I don’t understand the preventative component being expressed, all the while blaming the parents.

There is nothing definitive which has been released thus far, that can be verified. I agree about the gun. But what parent ever imagines their child could be an annihilator?

 

[Charlot123]

I wonder if the timing of the family's move to such a fairly isolated and strict life coincided with the parents first realising that there was something really wrong with their eldest child? Just an idea.

Such a good question.

Now, the family was quite educated. I wonder if the realization was not of "something is really wrong", otherwise they'd ask for help and not leave him with the access to the gun. What if it was some trivial act? Stealing something, or some computer activity? Or the school raised some concerns? Just a tiny red flag, but nothing big?

It could have also been an attempt to shield the kids from the environment. Sex Ed starts in 5th-6th grade, but in some schools, in 4th-5th grades. Some familirs think it is too early and can sign their kids out, but friends discuss it. I wonder if we as parents are trying to protect the kids, some from "the usual" others have an additional layer of concerns.

So where they used to live was a much larger area with the schools turning for the better from the previous level. That, too. So maybe they just wanted it all, a beautiful house on the lake, a very small protected area, mom not working, and the decision to not expose their kids to realities (that are discussed in many households) ended up in homeschooling.

I am just wondering if it all started with Sarah stretching herself too thin. She is more or less isolated at home with five kids. She has to check different level school programs. After all, she bore and raised five kids that is never easy on a person, physically or mentally. I think it could have started with plain exhaustion.

Since the situation does not develop in a day, no one notices the changes.

 

[Charlot123]

I get the need some OP are expressing to understand the why. But I don’t understand the preventative component being expressed, all the while blaming the parents.

There is nothing definitive which has been released thus far, that can be verified. I agree about the gun. But what parent ever imagines their child could be an annihilator?

No parent thinks of this, and the risk of teenage suicide is much higher than homicide. But if even for this reason...

 

[Charlot123]

I get the need some OP are expressing to understand the why. But I don’t understand the preventative component being expressed, all the while blaming the parents.

There is nothing definitive which has been released thus far, that can be verified. I agree about the gun. But what parent ever imagines their child could be an annihilator?

Who in this thread blames the parents? I think we are dealing with sketchy and random information about the family, that's all.

Some things, such as suicide, are hard to prevent. But the statistics in certain homicidal groups decreases dramatically with age. So we really need to learn a lot to understand...but do we?

We usually can trace the history of the crimes forward, from the moment the crime was committed. Accounts of lives before the events are patchy and sketchy. No one speaks before court, and the court is about punishment, and we end up no wiser than before. Occasionally someone monetizes the case but it is all. I am always thankful to the insiders who attempt..to share the honest stories, no matter how hard it must be for them to write about it.

 

[Knox]

Who in this thread blames the parents? I think we are dealing with sketchy and random information about the family, that's all.

Some things, such as suicide, are hard to prevent. But the statistics in certain homicidal groups decreases dramatically with age. So we really need to learn a lot to understand...but do we?

We usually can trace the history of the crimes forward, from the moment the crime was committed. Accounts of lives before the events are patchy and sketchy. No one speaks before court, and the court is about punishment, and we end up no wiser than before. Occasionally someone monetizes the case but it is all. I am always thankful to the insiders who attempt..to share the honest stories, no matter how hard it must be for them to write about it.

It seems to me there is a lot of blame being placed on the parents.

In your post above this one, you talk about Sarah stretching herself thin, saying she was isolated at home with five kids. That’s your personal opinion of how Sarah felt, you have no idea if that’s true.

The honest story may end up being that this teen is simply a bad kid, who resented his parents control and thought annihilating his entire family, was the pathway to freedom.

I greatly respect you and enjoy posting beside you, but in this particular case. I don’t agree with your views at all. So I’ll quit responding

 

[girlhasnoname]

I wonder if the timing of the family's move to such a fairly isolated and strict life coincided with the parents first realising that there was something really wrong with their eldest child? Just an idea.

I've asked that question myself. Very well could be IMO, maybe he began having behavioral or mental health issues. That age (15) is a slippery slope of testosterone and emotions for a boy/young man.

We don't know the family dynamics, nor do the neighbors, or the rumor mills. How do we know the mother was "so stressed" over home schooling? I don't think we do, perhaps she enjoyed it? Still so many unknowns that I seldom post, unless or until we learn factual information.

What we do know for a fact is that a young 15 year old murdered his entire family and had the mental faculties to try and frame his younger brother. Of course that wasn't going to fly once the real criminal investigation began and the surviving sister, who was smart enough to play dead and then run to safety, spoke with LE.

There would have been signs IMO. Dad sleeping downstairs on the couch says something to me. Like he might have been trying to keep an eye on the situation since the Master BR was upstairs away from where the children slept.

Regardless, it's an unthinkable tragedy for all involved.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

I get the need some OP are expressing to understand the why. But I don’t understand the preventative component being expressed, all the while blaming the parents.

There is nothing definitive which has been released thus far, that can be verified. I agree about the gun. But what parent ever imagines their child could be an annihilator?

I agree @Knox. The picture being painted is that this is somehow related to something the parents did wrong. They are victims at the very hands of their own son, what a shocking and more cruel way could there be?

It is their right as parents to choose where to live, how to, or not to, exercise their religious freedoms, approve or disapprove of their children's friend groups. Setting boundaries and limitations is an obligation every parent has if they want to see their children grow up to become successful, productive members of society.

Reasoning and discussing the issues in a respectful way is fine, but ultimately it's still the parent's choice. They were both highly functioning and successful in their own lives and careers by all accounts.

JMO

 

[Lusitana]

I have a really hard time believing that this kid just decided to murder his entire family without any previous signs of being somewhat disturbed.

 

[Megnut]

I have a really hard time believing that this kid just decided to murder his entire family without any previous signs of being somewhat disturbed.

Perhaps that explains the family's lifestyle, circling the wagon. Never imagining he was a risk to them, but drawing down on outside influences and guarding against him acting out against classmates, neighborhood children, etc.

We often ask, when there are school shootings, why didn't parents notice something and do something? Maybe they did and thought their choices achieved that.

If he had actual grievances against his parents, what possible grievance did he have against his siblings? He strikes me as busy an angry young man. A school shooter who blew up his home school. For all the same reasons the others one do it.

All JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

I have a really hard time believing that this kid just decided to murder his entire family without any previous signs of being somewhat disturbed.

We don't know if he was showing any signs of behavioral or mental health disturbances officially yet, but I agree something was up. I mentioned early on that perhaps it was the reason the family moved to begin with.

No parent is going to assume their own child would be capable of murdering the entire family. The Dad was sleeping on the couch downstairs near the children's rooms, maybe to keep an eye on a situation.

jmo

 

[OneLove]

>>snipped<<
No parent is going to assume their own child would be capable of murdering the entire family. The Dad was sleeping on the couch downstairs near the children's rooms, maybe to keep an eye on a situation.

jmo

Since "no parent is going to assume their child would be capable of murdering the entire family" I'm going with the likelihood he was sleeping down stairs on a sofa due to issues between he and his spouse. ~~Maybe they had a difference of opinion on the (isolated and restricted) son's viewing of online? It seems most kids will find that stuff if their access is left wide open with no filters, especially if they are left in (or restricted to) their rooms for long periods of time.

And NO, this thought is NOT blaming either parent for the son's murderous action.

 

[Sundog]

Since "no parent is going to assume their child would be capable of murdering the entire family" I'm going with the likelihood he was sleeping down stairs on a sofa due to issues between he and his spouse. ~~Maybe they had a difference of opinion on the (isolated and restricted) son's viewing of online? It seems most kids will find that stuff if their access is left wide open with no filters, especially if they are left in (or restricted to) their rooms for long periods of time.

And NO, this thought is NOT blaming either parent for the son's murderous action.

We can speculate ad nauseum about why the father was sleeping downstairs, but it is all purely speculation. Maybe he always slept there, or fell asleep that night watching a movie with the younger kids.

There could be many reasons, and I don't think that any of them really matter in the bigger scheme of things. Mark and Sarah and three of their younger children were murdered by their oldest son who premeditated a crime that included staging of the crime scene and cunning to put the blame on his 13 year old brother who he had killed. Thank goodness the 11 year old sister escaped her murderous brother to live and tell the truth about what happened that night.

**Justice for Mark and Sarah
and their 13 year old, 11 year old,
9 year old and 7 year old**​

 

[girlhasnoname]

Since "no parent is going to assume their child would be capable of murdering the entire family" I'm going with the likelihood he was sleeping down stairs on a sofa due to issues between he and his spouse. ~~Maybe they had a difference of opinion on the (isolated and restricted) son's viewing of online? It seems most kids will find that stuff if their access is left wide open with no filters, especially if they are left in (or restricted to) their rooms for long periods of time.

And NO, this thought is NOT blaming either parent for the son's murderous action.

Were the children restricted to their rooms for extended periods of time? IDK? Your opinion on the sleeping arrangements could be just as likely as mine (I did say maybe). We simply don't know all of the facts yet by LE, other than he's charged with the murders of his entire family (except the sister who got away).

It's a horrible situation and there are many unknowns which will probably come to light, especially if he is tried as an adult. I don't take SM and neighborhood rumors as fact yet.

This entire family lost here IMO and it's unbelievably sad to me.

 

[OneLove]

There was an earlier WS posted link to an msm article that reported the son spent a lot of time in his room 'doing school' on his computer. I'd guess that to mean it was his "homeschooling" or a significant part of it. It was also referenced that he wasnt doing well with his school work. Maybe he was in trouble for watching _orn on his computer *while* he was expected to be using it for his schooling?

I wonder, if so, how long he managed to get away with that before it was discovered? Could he actually have developed an out of control addiction? Adolescent boys just developing their sexual & erotic 'imprints' are particularly influenced by __orn and addictions have both behavioral and chemical components.

Please do not take these wonderings as some kind of "so that makes this heinous family annihilation okay". Its not personal, really. It may not be of significance at trial as to this kid's guilt and accountability but it IS of cultural, sociological, and particularly of "early warning" prevention significance. May we never see another one of these ever again on the face of the earth! Ugh.