WA - Cascade Mall, 5 fatalities, Burlington, 23 Sept 2016 *Arrest*

[cujenn81]

Marysville was almost exactly two years ago.

That was so so so sad!


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[CARIIS]

It really amazes me that on amy and every story that the media gets into every single persons place of birth etc. The entire country immiagrated from somewehere.

Its almost as if the media has amnesia regarding the term mass shooter. I think my family way way back came from Russia - relevancy ?

 

[CARIIS]

He immigrated as a child.

Mental illiness is an illiness - like diabetes it does not care what country one comes from !


Basically a disgnosis is two tiered. First the medical piece and if there was a lot of "stuff" that shaped how a personality disorder (basically madladaptive ways of dealing with wounding in earlier years) is s seperaerate entity (anticsoical, narcisstic passive agressive etc etc)

a deeply ingrained and maladaptive pattern of behavior of a specified kind, typically manifest by the time one reaches adolescence and causing long-term difficulties in personal relationships or in functioning in society.

google

 

[K_Z]

On social media, a person claimed she knew him in fourth grade. Which would mean that at 9-10 years he was already in US.
http://www.aol.com/article/2016/09/...assmates-claim-he-sexually-harassed/21478855/

Again, that may indeed be true. But the path of him still being on a green card is confusing, then, and troubling. Something very serious got in the way of his naturalization, and I think it's fair to speculate on that. If he has been here since 4th grade, he SHOULD be a naturalized citizen by now. And he isn't, at age 20.

So that's a interesting, and IMO, very relevant, part of the whole history of his life, and how he walked a path to become a rampage murderer at the age of 20.

And so, we don't know YET what part his birth culture may, or may not have contributed to what he became. We know he had some kind of Abu Bakr Al Bagdadi "stuff" on his social media, as well as some other islamic comments, and comments on Ayatollah Kohmeni. It may all be nothing more than irrelevant ramblings of a disturbed young man, or it may be significant as to his mindset. I'm glad the FBI is still looking into this.

The Facebook page of the alleged gunman, identified as his by the Times and many other media outlets, contains numerous references by friends to his purported fascination with guns and Russia.

On the Tumblr page, a post contains a reference to Allah and a person who responds uses the word Jannah, which is the term for the Muslim paradise.

The above photo is of the leader of ISIS, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi. The comment under it says, “My main dude, Abu bakr al big daddy. #al qaeda.”

More at the link.

http://heavy.com/news/2016/09/arcan...all-shooter-gunman-shooting-twitter-facebook/

 

[CARIIS]

http://www.13newsnow.com/news/crime/cascade-mall-shooting-suspect-says-he-did-it-say-court-records/326258388
rbbm

Autism helps a lot with blunted flat presence he displays. It also gives meaning to the inapproriate social interactions with others - that is the hal mark of the illiness. Elliot Rogers had a milder version.

Notice the female angle. People respond to the individual suffering with it it very negative ways - resulting in profound feelings of rejection. Explains a lot.

I am aware that many feel mental illiness is an excuse - obviosly that is not my world view.

It is very very difficult (especially in youth) to differntiate between the combo ADHS/Dpression and emerging bipolar. I had a very hard time in the beginning .

If you think about makes sense. The symptoms of manicky behaviror are very similar to ADHD.

In addition there is (was?) a quiet hestiancy to label a child as biploar - its a signifgant illiness.

The sad part tho is a lot of the medications for unipolar depression (major depression) excaberate bipolar. So in this instance if a wrong diagnosis is given and anti dpepressants precribed....

In addition, it would be important to know how long one therapist worked with him. In that type of instnace (court involved) treatment is often too hasty.

The symptoms of autistic spectrum ( I think he may have been Ausergers- much milder version just from his two words in court beleive it or not). His responses were quick articlulate and congruent.

Think of the North Miami sitution with the child - that is full on autism. Ausbergers is Elliot rogers. Off unique, strange but higher functioning.

BOth have "muted affect", which if you think about it , in a quick therepetic encounter, mirrors depression.

I also ponder if cultural differences might have impacted perceptions as well.

There is a very high correlation between drinking and bipolar - an effort to quiet the mind, as oppossed to the cliche people drink to bury thier feelings.

That too is a myth think about it - a drunk person has a heap of acess to thier feelings !! a drunk mans words are a sober mans thoughts! or lady!



The out causually strolling the streets hours after murdering 5 people fits in the autistic spectrum stuff - they just dont grasp social norms becasue they cant.


It also helps with the entry exit entry exit, gently setting the gun down on the counter, prior to departure, it can help with the inability to distinguish one Macys from another.

It fits with anger temper tantrums they suffer being percieved as a domestic assulat on step dad - they can go completly out.of.control.

Quite freightening , and if there is not a grasp of mental illiness - and Autistic spectrum issues - it could certainly be percieved as an attack - casue it is. Some need to be physically restrained when a tantrum starts or they will hurt themselves or others .

I am not saying mentally ill people are violent, nor a beleif that those that lost loved ones are helped by this revelation - but it is huge in fascilating understanding of the behaviors , actions, and possible thought processes he exhibted all along, apparently .

It is really really tough stuff for the caretakers, really tough. It will be intersting to see if we find about trouble in school ................... I wonder if he stalked the gfirned as well

moo

Autism spectrum disorder (ASD) and autism are both general terms for a group of complex disordersof brain development. These disorders are characterized, in varying degrees, by difficulties in social interaction, verbal and nonverbal communication and repetitive behaviors.

https://www.google.com/webhp?source...&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=autistic spectrum disorder

 

[K_Z]

Mental illiness is an illiness - like diabetes it does not care what country one comes from !


Basically a disgnosis is two tiered. First the medical piece and if there was a lot of "stuff" that shaped how a personality disorder (basically madladaptive ways of dealing with wounding in earlier years) is s seperaerate entity (anticsoical, narcisstic passive agressive etc etc)

a deeply ingrained and maladaptive pattern of behavior of a specified kind, typically manifest by the time one reaches adolescence and causing long-term difficulties in personal relationships or in functioning in society.

google

The fact remains that personality disorders (Axis II) which you're describing, do not render one "not responsible" legally for their actions. I've seen no evidence yet that he had Axis I disorder/s to the extent that he could be considered "not responsible" for his actions. I'm sure his attorneys will try to get him declared mentally ill "enough" so that he does not stand trial, or receive sentencing, but is sent to a mental institution instead-- but I don't think he will meet any of the requirements on those tests. I think his own actions showed he knew what he did was wrong, and that he planned it in advance. He may not have had enough "hugs" as a child, or has some adaptive issues, but that's a far cry from being mentally ill to the extent that he isn't responsible for his actions. Most of what I see in his past are behavioral problems, not Axis I issues, IMO.

Almost every one could "fit" the diagnostic criteria at some point in time for a personality disorder. Every single person in jail and prison has evidence of a personality disorder, or they wouldn't be there in the first place. Personality disorders are not legally mental illness. They are a foundation that produces a behavior problem. And personality disorders are widely agreed to be non-curable with any known medication or therapies. At best, we can train people with serious personality disorders how to behave so they get along in society better.

 

[CARIIS]

Completly off topic

but kinda cool imo

[video=youtube;K27-a-ZJ7uE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K27-a-ZJ7uE[/video]

 

[CARIIS]

The fact remains that personality disorders (Axis II) which you're describing, do not render one "not responsible" legally for their actions. I've seen no evidence yet that he had Axis I disorder/s to the extent that he could be considered "not responsible" for his actions. I'm sure his attorneys will try to get him declared mentally ill "enough" so that he does not stand trial, or receive sentencing, but is sent to a mental institution instead-- but I don't think he will meet any of the requirements on those tests. I think his own actions showed he knew what he did was wrong, and that he planned it in advance. He may not have had enough "hugs" as a child, or has some adaptive issues, but that's a far cry from being mentally ill to the extent that he isn't responsible for his actions. Most of what I see in his past are behavioral problems, not Axis I issues, IMO.

Almost every one could "fit" the diagnostic criteria at some point in time for a personality disorder. Every single person in jail and prison has evidence of a personality disorder, or they wouldn't be there in the first place. Personality disorders are not legally mental illness. They are a foundation that produces a behavior problem. And personality disorders are widely agreed to be non-curable with any known medication or therapies. At best, we can train people with serious personality disorders how to behave so they get along in society better.

I dont think of shooting people as a "behaviral" entity!

Of course is does not take away responsility - it helps understand the events . Personality disorders are profound mental disorders, half of our bible is dedicated to them! There is no cure for them , but being aware of how one interacts to the world based on past wounding can be helpful and insighful.

I did not say I thought he was personality disordered - I dont think he was! Axis two came up in the context that mental illiness is a disease , no referance to him !

IMO the ancient notion , legally, of mental illiness is a farce. It is from decades and decades ago, when understanding the complexities of mental illiness were in their infancy.

In those days unless one was talking to the clouds noone was ill. We created asylums to lock the loonies up and chain them to the wall.

IMO mental illiness should totally be including as a mitagating factor. If it was we might possibly have much more interest, as a society, in providing mental health intervention.

IMO as a society we will continue to suffer the consequences of viewing mental illiness as an "excuse" - our choice apparently.

It is getting worse - casue now we can call everyone a terroist and move on. Giving no reflection to the reality that mental illiness and guns dont mix.

Its ironic to me . Many look at mental illiness as an excuse , while at the same time society says if your diagnosed with a mental illiness you cant have acess to a gun -- what kind of sense does that even make? Hey it is relevant or it is not - The way we have it now its saying two opposite things.

we have all made errors fully aware of knowing right from wrong. Everyone of us has. What does that have to do with anything in terms of legal angle?

It explains the inabilty to refrain from doing correct or incorrect things to other people. We have more tolerance for mental retardation as causation - that is a mental illiness - why is that?

OUr society cant distinguish between psycosis and the host of other mental illiness' that profoundly impact millions. If one had a notion about how many people they are "hanging out" with who suffer from bipolar they would drop dead!!!!!!!!!! Thats funny!

You know about the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fifth Edition

It is our bible! The old erronous notion that personality disorders are not mental disorders eavaporated decades ago!

The most broadly recognized mental disorder associated with serial killing is Antisocial Personality Disorder (APD). This is a cluster B personality in the DSM IV and is intimately related with psychopathy.

Borderline Personality and Criminality

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2790397/

There are enormous connections between the personality disordered and murder

IMO the notion that becasue our legal system (a wreck IMO) does not recognize most of the field "legally" means nothing!

As a society, we are hiding our heads in the sand ,while getting them blown off, with numbing frequency..............................

Until that changes headlines shall continue

moo

moo

Table of contents:

Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders:

Personality DisordersGeneral Personality DisorderCluster A Personality DisordersParanoid Personality DisorderSchizoid Personality DisorderSchizotypal Personality DisorderCluster B Personality DisordersAntisocial Personality DisorderBorderline Personality DisorderHistrionic Personality DisorderNarcissistic Personality DisorderCluster C Personality DisordersAvoidant Personality DisorderDependent Personality DisorderObsessive-Compulsive Personality Disorder8 • DSM-5 Table of ContentsOther Personality DisordersPersonality Change Due to Another Medical ConditionOther Specified Personality DisorderUnspecified Personality Disorder

 

[CARIIS]

Hi Dotr!


Man it is really sad.

This is the second time this has happened. I got lost as to which killing was which thread , where it happened, which killer was where and the backstory. Same thing happened when there was a spurt of terror attacks a couple of months ago -----so many malls in the last couple of weeks. pathetic!!

I think media looks at all the immigration and visas and green cards (the whole schmeal) backwards. We have to IMO remember, that the world is a different place TODAY. They always get into this how did X get in the country bla bla.

Things to "screen " for were different 5 years ago..

Things to "screen " for were very different 10 years ago

Things to "screen " for were very very different 15 years ago

Things to "screen " for were verv very very differtnet 20 years ago

Things to "screen " for were very very very very different 25 years ago !!

IMO how he got here, when he got here, why he is here , what category he was/is placed in makes no difference to the families of the 5 victims.

Again , we have a mentally ill individual killing other people.............

Again, as a society its our choice..................................

 

[human]

Hi Dotr!


Man it is really sad.

This is the second time this has happened. I got lost as to which killing was which thread , where it happened, which killer was where and the backstory. Same thing happened when there was a spurt of terror attacks a couple of months ago -----so many malls in the last couple of weeks. pathetic!!

I think media looks at all the immigration and visas and green cards (the whole schmeal) backwards. We have to IMO remember, that the world is a different place TODAY. They always get into this how did X get in the country bla bla.

Things to "screen " for were different 5 years ago..

Things to "screen " for were very different 10 years ago

Things to "screen " for were very very different 15 years ago

Things to "screen " for were verv very very differtnet 20 years ago

Things to "screen " for were very very very very different 25 years ago !!

IMO how he got here, when he got here, why he is here , what category he was/is placed in makes no difference to the families of the 5 victims.

Again , we have a mentally ill individual killing other people.............

Again, as a society its our choice..................................

How do you screen a child? His stepfather is a United States veteran.

 

[human]

How do we start screening for a Lanza, McVeigh, Elliot, Ed Gein, Ted Bundy ad naseum?

 

[CARIIS]

How do we start screening for a Lanza, McVeigh, Elliot, Ed Gein, Ted Bundy ad naseum?

Hi Human

I really think society wise our only real option is educating the folks that are not ill, about what ill looks like. Remeber those PSA's on on drunk driving, smoking etc . There is somewhat a cluster of similrites.

FB TWITTER could really help.Imagine, if they could rig it to where anytime anyone login to one of them 10 second thing comes on about one sign of the probelm

Add in a compnent like the see something say something deal about letting a teacher or your friends parent know your concenred abot Bill lately.

Its awesome that Zuckenberg donates some money - some of the online giants need to help undo some of the damage they have done

I dont know imagine a sentence on everu Google search under the google thing. They did it for the tsumani (scared the hell out of me) anyone remember that?

after everyone of these we hear from parents, teachers , peers that it was only when they looked back they did notice some changes.

We gotta make the looking back real time so at least there might be an opportuniy to intevene with some IDK

Amyone got zuckerbergs email!!

 

[CARIIS]

How do you screen a child? His stepfather is a United States veteran.

That is basically what I was trying to say. It all was different at the time - so why everytime there is one of these mass shootings media spends all this time on this irrelevant notion of who get here , how and,when.

In most instances IMO, a lot of "these terrorists" are mass murders not these big ole bad terrorists, so it becomes even more irrelvant. Omar turning into a terrorist blew my mind.

A person who knew him better than anyone, his first wife, clearly stated he was mentally very disturbed - media just skipped over that and turned him into a terrorist. But not really, he is in every mass shooter list on the planet!

Omar IMo was a mas shotter that was mentally ill- the whole focus of the story was wrong. Had the worlds attn - a bunch of education opportunity was lost casue terror gets better ratings.

Think of all the stuff that could have been in the articles - his mood swings, his impulsivity, his explosive nature, its ok to be gay could have thrown in etc etc

mEDIA JUST turns everything into terrorism, which makes it powerlessness, and people go back to taking selfies

If the car wont start - its the generator- but the mechanic is focusing on the alternator the car aint gonna start!!

 

[human]

CARIIS I so agree. I am sick of this labelling them as terrorists. What a bunch of bs. Sure will give more money to anti terrorism stuff but zero for things that can address all of this rage by young men, Keep the pot boiling!

I really believe treating kids differently in schools can make a huge difference. Positive interventions. Therapy right on campus. Teaching appropriate ways to deal with anger.

Divorce seems to be a very common theme in these rampage killings. Skills with dealing with the effects of divorce in kids What to domwith the hurt, anxiety, whatever it is.

 

[0101ABA]

Records obtained by the KING 5 Investigators showed a Kirkland mental health facility tried to involuntarily commit the suspected Cascade Mall shooter last year.

Records show the doctors at Fairfax Hospital told a King County judge they were gravely concerned about Arcan Cetin. In documents filed with Island County District probation officers, a doctor checked a box indicating he was worried Cetin would harm himself.

A separate box indicating Cetin might harm others was not checked. It is unclear from these records whether or not Cetin was involuntarily admitted to the hospital.

(...)

The KING 5 Investigators are reviewing hundreds of pages of documents and will report more as it becomes available.

http://www.kvue.com/news/crime/casc...ct-says-he-did-it-say-court-records/326344266

 

[dotr]

Cetin was arrested on domestic violence charges in October 2014 after arguing with his mother because she wouldn't let him take his car to see his girlfriend, who had recently moved away. He broke glass in two pieces of furniture, put a hole in a wall and made dents in the refrigerator, she told police.

When Marshall got home and said he couldn't visit the girl, Cetin exploded again and took his mother's hand and started smacking himself in the face, she said.
Marshall called 911, and when the dispatcher asked if there were any guns in the home, Marshall said they were under his bed. When Cetin heard the comment, he bolted for the room, with Marshall close behind. Cetin tried to reach the guns, but Marshall pinned him against a wall until officers arrived, the documents say.
He was charged with assault and malicious mischief. In February 2015, the court agreed to dismiss the charges after two years if Cetin complied with the conditions of his probation, including not possessing firearms, drugs or alcohol and attending monthly counseling sessions.
Four months later, two of his classmates at Oak Harbor High School told authorities that he placed his foot between their legs during class and wouldn't stop. He denied being at school that day when questioned by police but was arrested on two counts of fourth-degree sexual motivation.
Later in June, Cetin had another violent outburst at home, and when his stepfather tried to stop him, he kissed Marshall on the lips. Marshall pushed Cetin away, and Cetin punched his stepfather in the face twice, records say.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/ap...pect-ate-stepfather-attack.html#ixzz4LUw82Tsf
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
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[Doghairrules]

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/ap...pect-ate-stepfather-attack.html#ixzz4LUw82Tsf
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
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Hello? Monthly counseling sessions is not anywhere near enough to deal with these kinds of issues.


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[dotr]

Hello? Monthly counseling sessions is not anywhere near enough to deal with these kinds of issues.


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Also, keeping guns in the house, particularly if they are not locked up and are under the bed, seems like a very bad plan with a loose cannon around, imo.

 

[katydid23]

wow. He was seriously off his rocker. He should have been held in a treatment center and stayed until he had himself under control.

 

[Aunt_Tulip]

The vigil last night was beautiful. Everyone gathered in one section of the mall parking lot. Then after brief comments from the mayor and a local pastor, everyone lit their candles and spread out down both sides of Burlington Boulevard. There are numerous fundraisers and donation sites for the victim's families all over the county. The mall walk is tomorrow morning. Skagit Strong.