Found Deceased WA - Julie Montague Ayers, 67, got separated from her partner while walking the dog, has dementia, Mt Baker Natl Forest, Kendall, 10 Mar 2023

[Lilibet]

I can imagine that her husband and family felt reasonably sure they’d find Julie quickly or that she would show up at home soon. Hence the four hour time lapse before calling LE. Having lived in a rural area like this, knowing LE isn’t nearby, I know you try to handle things that seem minor without “bothering” them. Of course, in retrospect I’m sure they realize they should have called sooner, but I understand why they didn’t.

I never underestimate how far and how fast a small child and an older person can travel on foot. I think I mentioned previously that a new resident with dementia in assisted living at a local retirement community left her room early in the morning and ended up over a mile away, having walked along the edge of a busy four lane highway. We lived there at the time and an employee came to our door at 7:00 a.m. asking if we’d seen her. LE conducted a huge search and late in the afternoon she was found deceased in a mass of blackberry bushes along the bike path bordering the highway. It was tragic. This was not a memory care facility and, having just met her the day before, it was clear she needed close supervision. But as we’ve discussed, it’s hard for family to see it. And she may have been able to fake it well enough for administration to let her move in.

My point being that I doubt Julie’s husband was used to her need for close supervision and I suspect Julie took off quickly and unfortunately met a similar fate in the dense woods.

 

[musicaljoke]

Well, he didn't call the police until 4 hours after she went missing. Do you think he may have forgotten she we went missing?

For what it's worth, I personally don't think her husband has memory issues as well. It would be a very unlikely coincidence.

BUT - this case is .....odd.
And we do have to keep an open mind to anything. So let's not rule it out.

If they separated while on the trail, and she headed back home, then I don't see anything particularly odd about waiting 4 hrs to call the police. He may have believed she came home, and then went out again, or had made a stop somewhere along the way. It seems from the descriptions, that she was suffering from mild dementia. So this kind of activity might not have been unusual for her.

It seems to me that the search for her on the trail came to an early end, after only 4 days. This makes me feel that LE discovered that she had made it safely off the trail and there was no need to continue looking for her there.

Could she have picked up a ride?

 

[annpats]

If they separated while on the trail, and she headed back home, then I don't see anything particularly odd about waiting 4 hrs to call the police.

If one of my family members with dementia disappeared in heavily wooded area, I wouldn't have waited that long.

It's so sad that the many cases on WS where people with dementia have disappeared, practically none of them have ever been found alive.

Do they forget to seek out help? Does confusion take over completely and they become so frightened they head away from civilization and hide?

 

[slowpoke]

Do they forget to seek out help? Does confusion take over completely and they become so frightened they head away from civilization and hide?

snipped for focus

I think yes, it can be all that, but also a person with dementia can become very dependent on the carer or family member.

I am recalling the time I was visiting with my dad at the nursing home in his late stages of dementia. He was mostly being nonresponsive to my comments and questions, but suddenly started calling for his former lady friend/carer (who he hadn’t been with in a very long time) repeatedly, and in a frightened, anxious way.

I can picture a scenario where the lost person with dementia just anxiously waits for their carer to guide them out of their situation.

 

[RickshawFan]

If they separated while on the trail, and she headed back home, then I don't see anything particularly odd about waiting 4 hrs to call the police. He may have believed she came home, and then went out again, or had made a stop somewhere along the way. It seems from the descriptions, that she was suffering from mild dementia. So this kind of activity might not have been unusual for her.

It seems to me that the search for her on the trail came to an early end, after only 4 days. This makes me feel that LE discovered that she had made it safely off the trail and there was no need to continue looking for her there.

Could she have picked up a ride?

SAR isn't exclusive to trail areas. They search in town, too. They train for dementia searches. Around here, you can't qualify for SAR without that training.

Ending a search after 4 days wouldn't be unusual at all; in many cases, SAR can have determined that the case is a recovery and not a rescue. They may have determined that continuing is too risky for members, at least at the moment. Algorithms are used to determine probabilities of a successful search, as well as the experience of the SAR lead, and the risk to SAR members.

From articles/LE statements ^^^^, it's clear the dementia was not mild, and JA unfortunately had a history of getting lost. She had been retired from her job as a pastor because of the dementia.

Although JA might have made it off the trail, there's no "safely" that goes along with that possibility, unfortunately. There are lakes, busy roads, complicated streets, no food, cold at night and not dressed for it....not to mention, more trails.

 

[RickshawFan]

Don't take my word for the SAR algorithm. Try it yourself! There's an app for it developed by Homeland Security.

Lost Person Behavior App | Homeland Security

The Department of Homeland Security Science and Technology Directorate (S&T) First Responders Group recently released a mobile app, developed with the support of SAR teams around the nation, that provides step-by-step instructions on search plans for first responders and response teams. It...

www.dhs.gov

 

[RickshawFan]

dbm

 

[wendybtn]

Maybe this has been addressed, but has the dog come back?

 

[Springrain]

Maybe this has been addressed, but has the dog come back?

The dog is back

 

[Lexiintoronto]

If one of my family members with dementia disappeared in heavily wooded area, I wouldn't have waited that long.

It's so sad that the many cases on WS where people with dementia have disappeared, practically none of them have ever been found alive.

Do they forget to seek out help? Does confusion take over completely and they become so frightened they head away from civilization and hide?

In general,they tend to keep going until they are stuck. The issues are as the time passes, they’re becoming thirsty, hungry, exposed to the elements, tired, and all that adds to the confusion.

I can think of a few cases where the dementia patient did encounter people and either seemed coherent and purposeful or asked for directions only to become further lost.

Their mind deceives them. Not uncommon with advanced dementia are hallucinations. Add to that diminished spatial awareness —they have difficulty judging distances and shapes and sizes in their surroundings. What may appear to be a big, dark rock they can climb on may actually be a hole. A house 100 metres away may be a mirage, and they’re going to walk 3 hours and wonder what brought them in that direction to begin with.

*This is based on what I know in general, not what I know that is specific to this missing lady.

 

[annpats]

Fom articles/LE statements ^^^^, it's clear the dementia was not mild, and JA unfortunately had a history of getting lost. She had been retired from her job as a pastor because of the dementia.

It just makes it seem all the more illogical why you would take someone with dementia on a walk on a trail in such a rural, forested area.

The potential for an incident is already high, and if help is needed (even something simple like if her husband sprained his ankle) then a minor thing becomes huge, even more so if cell service is poor or non-existant

Add in to the mix that Julie is 67, the trail/walk looks long and it was also cold that day.

Julie and husband couldn't have walked from their home to this area, as they lived 3 miles away, so it was actively chosen and driven to.

I'm not blaming the husband at all, but on paper, it really was a poor choice of everything.

 

[slowpoke]

It just makes it seem all the more illogical why you would take someone with dementia on a walk on a trail in such a rural, forested area.

The potential for an incident is already high, and if help is needed (even something simple like if her husband sprained his ankle) then a minor thing becomes huge, even more so if cell service is poor or non-existant

Add in to the mix that Julie is 67, the trail/walk looks long and it was also cold that day.

Julie and husband couldn't have walked from their home to this area, as they lived 3 miles away, so it was actively chosen and driven to.

I'm not blaming the husband at all, but on paper, it really was a poor choice of everything.

Do we have a map of the route, from home to the trail she disappeared on? I didn’t know it was 3 miles away. While not impossible to walk that far somewhere, I agree that would be a rather long walk if one had to double back so that it would be a 6+ mile walk altogether. JMO

I am Julie’s age and when I do a 5 mile hike I consider that extending myself—I’d feel pretty accomplished for completing it! JMO

 

[slowpoke]

There’s a map at this link showing the “approximate location where the search is being conducted”, but it’s not a very clear or detailed one, IMO.

More details in search for missing Maple Falls woman | Whatcom News

(sorry, I couldn’t figure out how to embed the map in this post)

 

[Lilibet]

Julie and husband couldn't have walked from their home to this area, as they lived 3 miles away, so it was actively chosen and driven to.

Can you say where you have gotten the 3 mile away from their home figure?

Do we have a map of the route, from home to the trail she disappeared on? I didn’t know it was 3 miles away.

If they were hiking on trails off of Sprague near Balfour (where that car video was), it was right across the road from the development they live in (where my friends lived). It’s not 3 miles away and they wouldn’t need a car. They were basically walking in the general Pleasant Valley neighborhood. I’m not sure exactly what trail they were on. Maybe someone else knows.

 

[Lilibet]

Their house is approximately where I made a red X. Just across the road is Sprague, Balfour and the Fire Trail.

 

[annpats]

Can you say where you have gotten the 3 mile away from their home figure?

I read previously that they lived in Kendall. That distance is approximately 3 miles to Maple Falls.

My apologies if that's not correct.
There was some confusion when Julie first when missing around whether she was from the Kendall or Maple Falls area.

I'm glad you've cleared that up and we know she was a lot closer to home.

 

[Lilibet]

And here is a larger view of the area, including Maple Falls. The red X is the approximate location of their house and the arrow is the general area of their walk as I understand it.

 

[Lilibet]

I read previously that they lived in Kendall. That distance is approximately 3 miles to Maple Falls.

My apologies if that's incorrect.

No worries. It WAS very confusing at first for sure. If I hadn’t been there I’d be lost! Their address is actually Maple Falls, but they seem to be closer to Kendall.

 

[WingsOverTX]

It just makes it seem all the more illogical why you would take someone with dementia on a walk on a trail in such a rural, forested area.

The potential for an incident is already high, and if help is needed (even something simple like if her husband sprained his ankle) then a minor thing becomes huge, even more so if cell service is poor or non-existant

Add in to the mix that Julie is 67, the trail/walk looks long and it was also cold that day.

Julie and husband couldn't have walked from their home to this area, as they lived 3 miles away, so it was actively chosen and driven to.

I'm not blaming the husband at all, but on paper, it really was a poor choice of everything.

Respectfully, have you known someone who went from fully functioning thru stages of dementia? It's not black & white. One is always wishing & hoping for what was. It deeply affects the lives around the person who dementia is changing. And requires reserves of patience that are often Herculean in nature. I am going to give a pass to anyone who made mistakes in this event unless some criminal intent is proven, which I find highly unlikely.

Very respectfully, I think you should consider doing that, too. We can't confine those with dementia to prisons of our choice. We have to accept some risks even if outcomes are sometimes sad & unfortunate.

It's not black & white. It's nuanced. Getting JMA out of the house for a walk was a good idea. Unfortunately an (admitted) momentary lapse in judgment may have caused her to end up lost.

I think she will be found. I think doing as many normal things as possible honors the life of someone with dementia.

Having been around different kinds & stages of dementia, I would say it is exhausting for family and non-family carers.

JMHO - That Julie is missing is sad but she's only missing to those on earth. She trusted in a Higher Power & so she is known & loved in a very important way regardless of what happened here.

My opinion only.

 

[RickshawFan]

It just makes it seem all the more illogical why you would take someone with dementia on a walk on a trail in such a rural, forested area.

The potential for an incident is already high, and if help is needed (even something simple like if her husband sprained his ankle) then a minor thing becomes huge, even more so if cell service is poor or non-existant

Add in to the mix that Julie is 67, the trail/walk looks long and it was also cold that day.

Julie and husband couldn't have walked from their home to this area, as they lived 3 miles away, so it was actively chosen and driven to.

I'm not blaming the husband at all, but on paper, it really was a poor choice of everything.

Totally agree. You'd want to have at least one dedicated minder; two would be better. But a minder with a dog? That's too much IMO. I could see maybe doing a park trail, rail-trail, or nature trail (something with "high interest"), but not a standard single-track hiking trail, especially if it's rated harder than "easy". Too much can go wrong, and it would be predicted for someone like JA who doesn't seem to have been in a "mild dementia" category at all, the first report notwithstanding.

If I were the minder, I would likely have my "person" dress in more trail-friendly clothes and have much sturdier footwear. I recently took a cognitively-challenged cousin on vacation. She brought 8 pairs of shoes. I got so worried about her breaking her ankle while slopping about in various unsupported pairs, that I locked 7 pairs in the trunk of the rental car when she wasn't watching. I wore my heavy hiking boots the entire trip, so as to set an example, and she had to wear her sturdy laceups.

It's possible JA could no longer lace up shoes, and that's why she was wearing puddle boots, but IMO there are times when you have to step in with a loved one and lace their shoes even if you really want them to be independent. Then go shopping for a sturdy velcro pair or speed laces.

On a trail? You need shoes with laces.