WA - Lindsey Baum, 10, McCleary, 26 June 2009 - #10

[McCleary]

we used to take our Toyota four wheel drive truck down there.. It's very muddy during the rainy season

Yeah...I was thinking of the Blue Slough area when I asked about the sloughs...I remember driving along Blue Slough Rd. to get to fastpitch games in Aberdeen/Cosi.

 

[JenniferO]

Just took my dogs for a short walk down at the Preachers Slough walk path.

I didn't find anything out of the ordinary (but I stayed on the walk path and didn't traipse through the bushes). I didn't take the complete path because my poor old Golden just couldn't handle it (darn hips!).
My other dog (basset/shepard mix) didn't seem to find any odd scents either.. but she's not trained to look for humans she's trained for birds, ducks, and bear (although she's been known to pick up the scent of other dead animals and thinks she needs to investigate closer and will take off in the direction of the scent)

Does the LE take the Astro information seriously? If someone called in the info would they investigate?

 

[scandi]

McCleary, I thought of Mud Bay also (even posted about it in the Astro thread) but it's east, not west so I don't know.

I knew they had dismantled a lot of Grisdale but I wasn't sure if there was something up there still. Sad that it is gone.. I remember going there when I was a kid. Neat place.

With the amount of rain we get here and the the fact that we have, what? Thousands of miles of logging roads.. I think I'm just on a wild goose chase here. Really frustrating.

Like I said early on in this case.. Lindsey was reported missing almost 2 hours after she was last seen. Anyone who knows the logging roads around here could get almost anyplace in that amount of time.

Hi Jennifer, That is just what I was thinking,

I think what it boils down to when we know the nature of the crime and statistics therof, why make assumptions by searching say 20 miles out of the area when the greater and more simple answer to the puzzle is she will more than likely be found very close to home.

Like off a logging road for example.

The nature of any stranger who either steals a child to use him/her and either kills by accident or intention, is .01% if all missing children that are murdered. They simply dump these children anywhere convenient and don't hide them specifically. They could care less if they are found as they don't think they will get caught IMO and from what I've read.

Someone who knows the child will be more selective in their disposalas they know LE will be possibly looking at them, but it seems they don't go out of their comfort zone for disposal, and they are often found not far from where the child disappeared.

That is the basic principle of Occam's Razor, that simplicity rules. In so many missing child cases it seems to be the case, noting Elizabeth Smart, held for weeks within earshot of her family home, Jessica Lunsford kept alive then buried within a stones throw of her family home, Caylee Anthony buried with blocks of her mom's abode, Samantha Runion dumped along a hwy not that far from her community, and then several new cases where the victim has been found relatively close to the spot from where they disappeared.

IMO

PS: Since McCleary, Elma and Montesano are surrounded by forests that are striped with old logging roads, I think that is where she will be found. No perp, even if they know her and are familial are going to want to get caught with a body in their car, so this seems like a quick and simple solution looking at it from the point of view of a perp. xox

 

[scandi]

Duplicate Post

 

[scandi]

Sorry, Duplicate post

 

[scandi]

Hi, I guess I am somewhat like a stick in that mudd

I've been reading about a local case that happened many years ago out of Aberdeen, about 20 miles west of McCleary: http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=20060209&slug=detective09m

The perp, a Dave Gerard, a local man, met his victims in a local bar and drove two of them {it is thought} 3 miles up an old logging road where they were found within a mile of each other. He was only convicted of one murder I believe.

Even though they were not children he lusted after, the principle is the same to me. He picked up a victim, drove her not very far away. used and abused her and she ended up dead.

It could be when he was done with these women he simply ditched them close to where he had used and abused them. He was finished with them and cared less if and when they were found as he made no attempt to hide their dead bodies from the world.

It could be a case in point for Lindsey. A local has eyed her, takes her when opportunity presents itself, she dies and he leaves her somewhere, not yet found. And to me that is the only reason she might seem to have been taken away from the area, as posters are discussing, because LE has not discovered where he dumped her.

The logging roads in that area seem endless. They go on seemingly for miles. Driving 2 blocks, taking a right turn and going around a curve might seem like you have driven a mile. And then you might be totally at odds, thinking you are lost and wrack your brain thinking how you are going to get out of there. I know because I have driven the logging roads in Lincoln County. Same thing. xox

 

[JenniferO]

blah..

Just the thought of that man makes me physically ill.

The bodies were actually found a few miles from the area we are currently talking about and just off the Blue Slough road.

 

[scandi]

blah..

Just the thought of that man makes me physically ill.

The bodies were actually found a few miles from the area we are currently talking about and just off the Blue Slough road.

It is frightening. But as in all towns like these, locals will know the roads and will have explored them before.

I remember driving up in the forest logging roads of Lincoln County Ore, in the hills way up above the Siletz River and discovering a wide growth of mature Siskiyou Trees. It was amazing. They are among the tallest trees in the world.

There is another lady who was found off a logging road out of Elma in 1988. Her murder has never been solved although there might be ideas the husband was involved.

Logging roads are bad as it is easy to drop a body that might take ages for LE to find. Perps evidently know this.

 

[not_my_kids]

There's one point that I am having a hard time wrapping my head around. If someone took Lindsey with the intention of only molesting her or something similar, and then she was unintentionally killed, that person would be showing some noticeable signs that something is wrong with them. With all the blogging and talking that we have heard, we haven't heard anything about anyone acting more weirdly than normal.
So that leads me to believe one of two things: either Lindsey is still alive, or she was taken by someone with the intention of killing her from the outset.
And this is where I have the problem understanding: if she was picked with the intention of ending her life, why? What set her apart from the other kids in McCleary. I mean, she is precocious, but so are a lot of the other kids, at least on Myspace.

I still think that if she was taken, the person that did it is in plain sight, but now I am starting to lean towards someone without a lot of social interaction or someone that acts "oddly" to begin with, so odd behavior wouldn't be noticed. I'm not naming names, because it could very well be someone that is so far under the radar we haven't seen them yet.

 

[cyberswept]

blah..

Just the thought of that man makes me physically ill.

The bodies were actually found a few miles from the area we are currently talking about and just off the Blue Slough road.

Jen, I was reading about this Dave Gerard you were talking about and in this article it mentions a 'Muddy Waters' cocktail lounge in Aberdeen. It isn't there any longer, but I talked to my mom and she said it was down there by Captain's Corner and the Northwest Passage. Now that is a bit farther than 20 miles, but it is basically in the WSW line.

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=20060209&slug=detective09m

Anyway, thought it interesting that of all the things mentioned in the article, that a lounge by that name was there.

 

[JenniferO]

It is frightening. But as in all towns like these, locals will know the roads and will have explored them before.

I remember driving up in the forest logging roads of Lincoln County Ore, in the hills way up above the Siletz River and discovering a wide growth of mature Siskiyou Trees. It was amazing. They are among the tallest trees in the world.

There is another lady who was found off a logging road out of Elma in 1988. Her murder has never been solved although there might be ideas the husband was involved.

Logging roads are bad as it is easy to drop a body that might take ages for LE to find. Perps evidently know this.

Can you send me a link or possibly a name for the lady in Elma. I don't recall that case even though I've lived here for 41 years.

 

[JenniferO]

There's one point that I am having a hard time wrapping my head around. If someone took Lindsey with the intention of only molesting her or something similar, and then she was unintentionally killed, that person would be showing some noticeable signs that something is wrong with them. With all the blogging and talking that we have heard, we haven't heard anything about anyone acting more weirdly than normal.
So that leads me to believe one of two things: either Lindsey is still alive, or she was taken by someone with the intention of killing her from the outset.
And this is where I have the problem understanding: if she was picked with the intention of ending her life, why? What set her apart from the other kids in McCleary. I mean, she is precocious, but so are a lot of the other kids, at least on Myspace.

I still think that if she was taken, the person that did it is in plain sight, but now I am starting to lean towards someone without a lot of social interaction or someone that acts "oddly" to begin with, so odd behavior wouldn't be noticed. I'm not naming names, because it could very well be someone that is so far under the radar we haven't seen them yet.

MOO

Lindsey was alone, that's why she was taken. It could have easily have been MK, JB or any other child (maybe even a lone female teen or woman for that matter) in McCleary.
I think it was someone who just happened to be passing by (whether it was a local or someone just driving down the street at the time) Lindsey, seen that she was alone, seen that no one else seemed to be around and took her. I believe she's dead and I believe she is somewhere within 10 miles of McCleary on a logging road.

 

[scandi]

Jen, I was reading about this Dave Gerard you were talking about and in this article it mentions a 'Muddy Waters' cocktail lounge in Aberdeen. It isn't there any longer, but I talked to my mom and she said it was down there by Captain's Corner and the Northwest Passage. Now that is a bit farther than 20 miles, but it is basically in the WSW line.

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=20060209&slug=detective09m

Anyway, thought it interesting that of all the things mentioned in the article, that a lounge by that name was there.

Hi Cyber, That is almost karmaic. Maybe the local is someone who used to party down in that neck of the woods in days gone by.

When I used to drive from Lacey to Aberdeen it seemed when I hit Montesano I was about half way there. Do you know how many miles it would be from McCleary to Blue Slough Rd or Cosmopolis?

 

[JenniferO]

cyberswept, if you read Tubas post.. it isn't about someplace with "mud" in the name. It's about someplace that is muddy (which as you know.. that's pretty much every where in Grays Harbor)

Ugh.. Muddy Waters tavern was such a dive. Prostitutes, druggies and by the looks of it.. murderers hung out there. What am I talking about? That whole section of town is full of those kinds.

 

[kageykaren]

Keep in mind the description in the Astro thread wasn't about a title "Muddy Waters" Tubas post is about terraine of the area in the direction west, SW. I only sluethed-goole those words this morning trying to find an area 20 mi. west southwest that may be more muddier than usual and that is when the name of the river came up and we moved over to the Montessna area after Haddy Mc Fadin and I desided that seems more in the direction of Tubas Post. I think if your looking up Titles it throws off direction.

 

[JenniferO]

Karen, I drove around today in the 20 mile/WSW area and found nothing muddy. It's been super dry here for the last month BUT it's possible that in June the area was muddy. Currently we are mudless in Grays Harbor county.

 

[cyberswept]

Hi Cyber, That is almost karmaic. Maybe the local is someone who used to party down in that neck of the woods in days gone by.

When I used to drive from Lacey to Aberdeen it seemed when I hit Montesano I was about half way there. Do you know how many miles it would be from McCleary to Blue Slough Rd or Cosmopolis?

Well if you look at the map I submitted, Blue Slough is just at the edge of that 20 mile radius that Jen showed us.
http://s913.photobucket.com/albums/...ion=view&current=intersection_20mile_line.jpg

The Muddy Waters thing seems very coincidental and yes almost karmic. I wonder if the person who has something to do with Lindsey's disappearance frequented, owned it or worked there?

Driving distance to that old tavern from McCleary is 29.94 miles.

 

[cyberswept]

cyberswept, if you read Tubas post.. it isn't about someplace with "mud" in the name. It's about someplace that is muddy (which as you know.. that's pretty much every where in Grays Harbor)

Ugh.. Muddy Waters tavern was such a dive. Prostitutes, druggies and by the looks of it.. murderers hung out there. What am I talking about? That whole section of town is full of those kinds.

Until we can eliminate things, the coincidence alone bears some investigation. Maybe Tuba got it wrong and it is a title or location. You know how dry it's been and mud is a bit hard to come by lately.

 

[JenniferO]

I don't personally think the tavern fits the description of Tubas post.

For someone familiar with McCleary: what is 20 miles W.S.W. of town, old, lonely and isolated? In rainy weather, this place is MUD.

 

[JenniferO]

Until we can eliminate things, the coincidence alone bears some investigation. Maybe Tuba got it wrong and it is a title or location. You know how dry it's been and mud is a bit hard to come by lately.

I agree someone should investigate, I can't seem to find any info on the tavern. I was there once, many years ago. It was a dive so I left without even sitting down.

Where would one go to find info on it when googling doesn't bring anything up?