WA - Lindsey Baum, 10, McCleary, 26 June 2009 - #10

[scandi]

Karen, I drove around today in the 20 mile/WSW area and found nothing muddy. It's been super dry here for the last month BUT it's possible that in June the area was muddy. Currently we are mudless in Grays Harbor county.

Jennifer, What about Sand Lake/Pond? It is so close but maybe far enough away, eh? And the weather from June 26th has made a drastic change in the last month.


I just LOL keep thinking the perp might have been someone she didn't know but had seen before. Like a friend of a neighbor.

I hope LE has questioned her friends thoroughly. If ML was telling the truth about the white car and the other friend of Lindsey's who was approached by the man in the white car, telling her she could drive it, I think he could have been the one.

He was evidently infatuated with young girls, bold, local, and adamant enough to give these girls the heebie jeebies to where they were plumb scared of the guy. A sicko on the make is what he could be IMO

Where would he take her, knowing she vanished from almost the center of town. Driving, not chasing her as her shoes would have come off and didn't. The logical thing is she got in on a ruse.

Oh, maybe it was the same man who did lose his dog that was genuine, and he decided he wanted Lindsey. So he looked for the perfect opportunity to snatch her

Do we know who that guy was?

And I still keep thinking about the guy you saw Cyber, who drove up to a neighbor's house near KK's right before you were stopped by the local fuzz.

What did he look like? Tall and skinny, ill kept with curly dark hair down about to the bottom of his ears? I don't know why that is what I am thinking, so must have read it somewhere.

 

[kageykaren]

Just took my dogs for a short walk down at the Preachers Slough walk path.

I didn't find anything out of the ordinary (but I stayed on the walk path and didn't traipse through the bushes). I didn't take the complete path because my poor old Golden just couldn't handle it (darn hips!).
My other dog (basset/shepard mix) didn't seem to find any odd scents either.. but she's not trained to look for humans she's trained for birds, ducks, and bear (although she's been known to pick up the scent of other dead animals and thinks she needs to investigate closer and will take off in the direction of the scent)

Does the LE take the Astro information seriously? If someone called in the info would they investigate?

SS told me that it is premature to call them as this is just one more theory that has no substance. SS quoted the many calls similar to this one that bogged down the Caylee investigation I thought of a way around to the backdoor. Hubby said if some have friends in LE to let them know a concern in a case and pass information on. Our close LE friend is retired Pierce County, turned Bank President and said he'd make a call. Also an e'mail or fax would be good to get the info there and if they didn't see it noteworthy they would throw it away. These aren't concrete tips from Tuba as she says things change. As frustrating, frazzled as these cases make us, theres only so much one can do with what they know. Us living here know how isolated those logging roads. Sometimes I think are state is a magnet for the worst of the worst because one could go undetected if they wanted to. I guess the beauty brings out the beasts. People in the midwest still think we have hundreds of vietnam survivors living in the woods. Crazy world!

 

[JenniferO]

Sand Lake is more of a shallow pond I believe. And I think someone here mentioned before that it had been throughly searched by LE/divers/searchers.

As far as the white car, the lost dog or the neighbor at KKs, anything is possible. I've talked to my friends 11 year old daughter and she's never seen a white car following kids in town. But that could be because she wasn't observant or wasn't out during the times that this person did this.
I never did get a name for the guy that was looking for the dog, I guess he was a local and the posters were all over the place in McCleary.

Pretty much anything out of MLs mouth, to me, is rumor and knowing this area like I do.. I don't believe rumors.

 

[JenniferO]

SS told me that it is premature to call them as this is just one more theory that has no substance. SS quoted the many calls similar to this one that bogged down the investigation. I thought of a way around to the backdoor. Hubby said if some have friends in LE to let them know a concern in a case and pass information on. Our close LE friend is retired Pierce County, turned Bank President and said he'd make a call. Also an e'mail or fax would be good to get the info there and if they didn't see it noteworthy they would throw it away. These aren't concrete tips from Tuba as she says things change

Yeah, after I posted that I talked to a County Sheriff friend. He said he'd mention it but unless there was something other than 'what I read on an internet forum' to go on.. he said they'd probably just put it to the side and not go out looking real soon.

 

[scandi]

Can you send me a link or possibly a name for the lady in Elma. I don't recall that case even though I've lived here for 41 years.

Yes I'll go find it. She was oriental I believe, and one of the only 2 unsolved cases in Coldcaseman's investigative career. xox It'll take me a minute.

 

[McCleary]

Sand Lake is more of a shallow pond I believe. And I think someone here mentioned before that it had been throughly searched by LE/divers/searchers.

As far as the white car, the lost dog or the neighbor at KKs, anything is possible. I've talked to my friends 11 year old daughter and she's never seen a white car following kids in town. But that could be because she wasn't observant or wasn't out during the times that this person did this.
I never did get a name for the guy that was looking for the dog, I guess he was a local and the posters were all over the place in McCleary.

Pretty much anything out of MLs mouth, to me, is rumor and knowing this area like I do.. I don't believe rumors.

I saw the name on the flier, the initials were EB, but it wasn't any kind of name we'd been looking at before. There's also a phone number, but I didn't manage to get it before I had to get moving again (the logging truck coming around the corner behind me wouldn't have stopped).

 

[cyberswept]

I don't personally think the tavern fits the description of Tubas post.

I guess it would depend on your POV. Old: it's no longer there. Lonely: no one is currently running any kind of business there. Isolated: Boarded up, closed off. MUD is part of it's name. I am not trying to combative, just pointing this out as another way to look at Tuba's message.

I have learned over the years that sometimes the most obvious explanation is nothing like what actually happened.

 

[JenniferO]

I guess it would depend on your POV. Old: it's no longer there. Lonely: no one is currently running any kind of business there. Isolated: Boarded up, closed off. MUD is part of it's name. I am not trying to combative, just pointing this out as another way to look at Tuba's message.

I have learned over the years that sometimes the most obvious explanation is nothing like what actually happened.

True, but it's not boarded up anymore. I believe it's another tavern with a different name. I've sent a text message to a friend who will know the name of it now. He might even know who owned it when it was Muddy Waters.

I'll post when I hear from him.

 

[scandi]

Sand Lake is more of a shallow pond I believe. And I think someone here mentioned before that it had been throughly searched by LE/divers/searchers.

As far as the white car, the lost dog or the neighbor at KKs, anything is possible. I've talked to my friends 11 year old daughter and she's never seen a white car following kids in town. But that could be because she wasn't observant or wasn't out during the times that this person did this.
I never did get a name for the guy that was looking for the dog, I guess he was a local and the posters were all over the place in McCleary.

Pretty much anything out of MLs mouth, to me, is rumor and knowing this area like I do.. I don't believe rumors.

Ya Ya, I agree. I thought if ML had lied about Lindsey calling the police for help from ML's house the truth would have come out. Since we have heard nothing to correct her statement I assumed it was probably true. xox

 

[JenniferO]

Scandi, I would like to think the LEs would tell us everything involving the case. But sadly they don't.

Those statements were made on King5.com not told to the LEs (well we've been told they were told to the LE but we weren't there so we don't know). LE's either don't know about it, it's false or it's true and they have a suspect and don't want anyone to know yet because they don't have enough evidence to arrest him yet.

 

[cyberswept]

Keep in mind the description in the Astro thread wasn't about a title "Muddy Waters" Tubas post is about terraine of the area in the direction west, SW. I only sluethed-goole those words this morning trying to find an area 20 mi. west southwest that may be more muddier than usual and that is when the name of the river came up and we moved over to the Montessna area after Haddy Mc Fadin and I desided that seems more in the direction of Tubas Post. I think if your looking up Titles it throws off direction.

At any rate, I posted a map of the location of the old lounge in relation to McCleary. For reference in case anyone is interested.

http://s913.photobucket.com/albums/ac333/cyberswept/?action=view&current=muddy_waters.jpg

 

[cyberswept]

True, but it's not boarded up anymore. I believe it's another tavern with a different name. I've sent a text message to a friend who will know the name of it now. He might even know who owned it when it was Muddy Waters.

I'll post when I hear from him.

Sweet!

 

[not_my_kids]

MOO

Lindsey was alone, that's why she was taken. It could have easily have been MK, JB or any other child (maybe even a lone female teen or woman for that matter) in McCleary.
I think it was someone who just happened to be passing by (whether it was a local or someone just driving down the street at the time) Lindsey, seen that she was alone, seen that no one else seemed to be around and took her. I believe she's dead and I believe she is somewhere within 10 miles of McCleary on a logging road.

I agree that she was more than likely a victim of opportunity. And, unfortunately, I believe as well that she is dead. Not quite sure where...there's so much water and other wooded areas, that I wouldn't bet on a logging road just yet, but agree that she's within 10 miles. Most of the time they are much closer than that to the abduction site. At this point, I hate to admit, I can't make any call on local or not. I feel it was, but nothing to back it up.

 

[kageykaren]

Cyber Tuba has the chart showing how the Foensic chart works. Jennifer looking at the statement you pulled from Tuba I immediatly thought of an old lonly cabin isolated with in a clearing of a forrest. Logging roads would be muddy come Sept. leading into woods. The only other thing i can think of would be an old broken down mobile type, pre-fab office type bld. that loggers sometimes put up when doing a remote job and they just leave it. maybe something will come to light. it's also good to keep in mind perps can even read here. Good sleep to all on this cooler evenning!

 

[not_my_kids]

Jennifer, What about Sand Lake/Pond? It is so close but maybe far enough away, eh? And the weather from June 26th has made a drastic change in the last month.


I just LOL keep thinking the perp might have been someone she didn't know but had seen before. Like a friend of a neighbor.

I hope LE has questioned her friends thoroughly. If ML was telling the truth about the white car and the other friend of Lindsey's who was approached by the man in the white car, telling her she could drive it, I think he could have been the one.

He was evidently infatuated with young girls, bold, local, and adamant enough to give these girls the heebie jeebies to where they were plumb scared of the guy. A sicko on the make is what he could be IMO

Where would he take her, knowing she vanished from almost the center of town. Driving, not chasing her as her shoes would have come off and didn't. The logical thing is she got in on a ruse.

Oh, maybe it was the same man who did lose his dog that was genuine, and he decided he wanted Lindsey. So he looked for the perfect opportunity to snatch her

Do we know who that guy was?

And I still keep thinking about the guy you saw Cyber, who drove up to a neighbor's house near KK's right before you were stopped by the local fuzz.

What did he look like? Tall and skinny, ill kept with curly dark hair down about to the bottom of his ears? I don't know why that is what I am thinking, so must have read it somewhere.

I'm not discounting the idea, but I think if it was the guy that lost the dog that came back and got her at a later time, the irony would literally kill me. That's a very common ploy among SO's, when there really is no dog, the thought of someone being so opportunistic as to use the real lost dog to scope for future vics...I think it would kill me.

 

[JenniferO]

Sweet!

ok, that friend doesn't remember exactly where it was. He thinks it was where the Northwest Passage is now but can't be positive. He was going to ask around and get back to me in the next few days.

 

[scandi]

Can you send me a link or possibly a name for the lady in Elma. I don't recall that case even though I've lived here for 41 years.

Here she is Jennifer, Elma Woods Jane Doe ~ Grays Harbor County


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44275&highlight=jane+doe+grays+harbor

Snip

"Gerard hasn't been excluded as a suspect . . . .She was 200 feet from the end of a logging road spur, five miles back into the woods from the nearest paved road. She may have been a prostitute, but she was wearing nearly new shoes, and was taken out into the middle of the woods. . . ." Coldcaseman

 

[distracted]

This is what Tuba said in the astro thread, "For someone familiar with McCleary: what is 20 miles W.S.W. of town, old, lonely and isolated? In rainy weather, this place is MUD."

So, it sounds like the place wouldn't necessarily be muddy today.

 

[scandi]

True, but it's not boarded up anymore. I believe it's another tavern with a different name. I've sent a text message to a friend who will know the name of it now. He might even know who owned it when it was Muddy Waters.

I'll post when I hear from him.

I wonder if it was anywhere near the Smoke Shop Tavern?

Boy, if those old bars are still in the same buildings, just renamed with new owners, I bet they are infested with roaches.

O/T I worked in an old bar like that in Portland that in the basement still had the tunnel open down to the waterfront where they drugged patrons in the old days and put them on boats to be the crew

The bug man had a weekly stop at this bar and the roaches walked freely on my new stainless steel work area! Even the big fat old papa one's. It was disgusting.

 

[JenniferO]

Thank you scandi, I remember that case now.

None of the links to her pictures work anymore though

I'm currently working on a timeline of the time I knew David and when the incident between him and I happened. I'm curious if he was "active" back in the 80's. The more I read about him.. the worse my stomach hurts. I don't know how CCM does this stuff. I can sure tell I wasn't cut out to be a crime investigator. I'd wanna kill these guys myself.