NOT GUILTY WA - Parents try to kidnap daughter over forced marriage - November 3, 2024 (NG of attempted murder; Guilty of lesser charges)

[Kalanit]

Why does that matter? I don't know, maybe it's just me, but I'm kind of offended by some of the comments around this trial all over the Internet. There are plenty of cases where people we all think are guilty are found not guilty. We ask a jury to make that determination and we can have our opinions regarding guilt or innocence, but we're not on the jury. The fact that the jury's decision in this case has been ridiculed with regard to nationality, foreign cultures, and politics is sad and disappointing to see.

These are 12 individuals who took time out of their lives to do their civic duty. We may feel they got it wrong, but assigning ulterior motives to their decision feels just as wrong.

MOO. This is not commentary on the guilt or innocence of the parents. This is commentary on how the jury's decision is being interpreted as being manipulated by political or cultural leanings, which if I find offensive.

MOO.

And this "finding offensive" is exactly the problem.
*my opinion.

 

[Izzylizzy]

I doubt we will ever know what happens to Fatima. Her and Isiah may be together right now and this situation has been her escape for now but she will need to leave the area and at 18 and not even working this is going to be tough. It must have been awful to have to make the choice to charge your own parents and the state charged both of them. Don't trust Mrs. Ali either.

It would be ideal if other women from countries where it's the norm and acceptable to abuse children and especially the females who also have no rights to make contact with her.
There's a movement/organizations with women who fled their countries and now here in the US have published books, lecture etc.
She needs that one advocate,separate from those helping her now, who has the first hand experience of what she has lived through with this family.

FA had no choice in the matter of her parents being arrested, not that it matters because it's the guilt factor
that hopefully gets addressed with her even if she's not expressing any, it can be buried in her and raises it's ugly head from time to time.
I gather that it was LE when she was hospitalized who were the first adults she opened up to about the toxic abusive family situation?


When it comes to DV assault it's not up to the victim, female or male to press criminal charges or not.
Legally they have no choice in the matter, it's up to the prosecutor because there's been decades upon decades when it was up to the woman/victim to press charges and the great majority then after they had them arrested they refused to cooperate with the court and then they would drop the charges for a multitude of reasons, fear and finances being utmost.

This fed the cycle of abuse so laws changed on DV.

IMO

 

[turaj]

Mrs. Ali complete with big bouquet of flowers speaking to Court TV . She talks about this like just a problem with a teen. Wants her back home and husband to. No remorse of what happened at all.

 

[Sundog]

There's a movement/organizations with women who fled their countries and now here in the US have published books, lecture etc.
She needs that one advocate,separate from those helping her now, who has the first hand experience of what she has lived through with this family.

<snipped for focus>

Fatima needs to contact one of these organizations that can provide her with support and the resources she needs going forward now as she is still in danger from her family and their community.

The organization linked below can provide her with help and support and help her connect with resources locally that understand the danger she is in with regard to honor violence.

Honor violence - AHA Foundation

Honor violence is an often-overlooked form of abuse that shames, hurts or kills thousands of women and girls in the U.S. each year and puts millions more at risk.

www.theahafoundation.org

Honor Violence is a Reality in the US​

Alarmingly, the number of cases of honor violence is increasing in the US, making it clear that a more robust system for addressing these crimes is critical. The AHA Foundation responds to women and girls in crisis through counseling, information and direct introductions to local service providers.

What is Honor Violence?​

Honor violence is an often-overlooked form of abuse that shames, hurts or kills thousands of women and girls in the US each year and puts millions more at risk. Honor violence is typically seen in the form of physical or emotional abuse, sexual assault, rape or kidnapping - but it also includes female genital mutilation and forced marriage. In its most extreme cases, honor violence can lead to murder. In sharp contrast to other forms of domestic violence, honor violence is often condoned by families and communities, making it particularly difficult to identify and stop. Sadly, it often involves several perpetrators within the family or community.

 

[Izzylizzy]

Why does that matter? I don't know, maybe it's just me, but I'm kind of offended by some of the comments around this trial all over the Internet. There are plenty of cases where people we all think are guilty are found not guilty. We ask a jury to make that determination and we can have our opinions regarding guilt or innocence, but we're not on the jury. The fact that the jury's decision in this case has been ridiculed with regard to nationality, foreign cultures, and politics is sad and disappointing to see.

These are 12 individuals who took time out of their lives to do their civic duty. We may feel they got it wrong, but assigning ulterior motives to their decision feels just as wrong.

MOO. This is not commentary on the guilt or innocence of the parents. This is commentary on how the jury's decision is being interpreted as being manipulated by political or cultural leanings, which if I find offensive.

MOO.

BBM:

I've seen it work both ways.
The Chauvin case was covered nationally in the media and on social media.

People were and remain adamant that Derek Chauvin didn't kill George Floyd ( anyone who followed it knows all their reasons) and the jury voted to convict him out of fear for their personal safety and causing riots.
imo

 

[Izzylizzy]

<snipped for focus>

Fatima needs to contact one of these organizations that can provide her with support and the resources she needs going forward now as she is still in danger from her family and their community.

The organization linked below can provide her with help and support and help her connect with resources locally that understand the danger she is in with regard to honor violence.

Honor violence - AHA Foundation

Honor violence is an often-overlooked form of abuse that shames, hurts or kills thousands of women and girls in the U.S. each year and puts millions more at risk.

www.theahafoundation.org

Honor Violence is a Reality in the US​

Alarmingly, the number of cases of honor violence is increasing in the US, making it clear that a more robust system for addressing these crimes is critical. The AHA Foundation responds to women and girls in crisis through counseling, information and direct introductions to local service providers.

What is Honor Violence?​

Honor violence is an often-overlooked form of abuse that shames, hurts or kills thousands of women and girls in the US each year and puts millions more at risk. Honor violence is typically seen in the form of physical or emotional abuse, sexual assault, rape or kidnapping - but it also includes female genital mutilation and forced marriage. In its most extreme cases, honor violence can lead to murder. In sharp contrast to other forms of domestic violence, honor violence is often condoned by families and communities, making it particularly difficult to identify and stop. Sadly, it often involves several perpetrators within the family or community.

Thank you for running with my suggestion and finding something concrete.
I'm curious if anyone from this organization or another has reached out to her or anyone in her support system made contact.

 

[Izzylizzy]

Mrs. Ali complete with big bouquet of flowers speaking to Court TV talks. about this like just a problem with a teen. Wants her back home and husband to. No remorse of what happened at all.

Color me surprised.
Not.

 

[Sundog]

Thank you for running with my suggestion and finding something concrete.
I'm curious if anyone from this organization or another has reached out to her or anyone in her support system made contact.

I don't know if they would know how to reach her, even if they likely read about her situation in the news. I think the contact would have to come from Fatima, herself, or from someone she is staying with or knows well.

I really hope she gets in contact with this organization. At 18, she needs some major support and awareness of resources.

 

[turaj]

And this "finding offensive" is exactly the problem.
*my opinion.

I agree. In my inquiry about the area I was merely trying to see if the jury could have people on it that might be thinking differently about the parent's rights here. The Alis are not alone in their thoughts but few act on it as they did. It is a reasonable question...nothing to do with questioning their ulterior motives at all.

 

[mickey2942]

what Mr. Ali did is not parenting in this country. Did they give him a pass as he is from another country and this is the norm there?

In the '90's there was a "push" for social services reform. The goal was to have skilled workers, who spoke the same language as people who needed services.

The problem with this, was that so many referrals to Child Protective Services, were based on parenting practices that were acceptable in the country of origin, but not in the United States. But the "CPS staff" who were the same cultural background, seemed to accept the poor parenting skills as "fine", based on their own social/cultural background. It was really a fiasco.

 

[Izzylizzy]

Here comes the Judge.

"Judge Christine Schaller did not release Ihsan Ali. He will remain in custody pending a sentencing hearing for both parents that’s scheduled for Aug. 18. Ihsan Ali’s attorney Erik P. Kaeding asked that his client be released, saying he had already been incarcerated long enough. “Mr. Ali, he lives here obviously,” Kaeding said. “His family is here. He doesn’t have any prior (criminal) history of any kind.”


Deputy Prosecutor Heather Stone said Ihsan Ali still faces a prison sentence. She said the range for his two domestic violence sentences is 12-14 months and his range on the unlawful imprisonment sentence is 4-12 months."

Read more at: https://www.theolympian.com/news/local/crime/article311551654.html#storylink=cpy

https://www.theolympian.com/news/local/crime/article311551654.html

 

[Kalanit]

I agree. In my inquiry about the area I was merely trying to see if the jury could have people on it that might be thinking differently about the parent's rights here. The Alis are not alone in their thoughts but few act on it as they did. It is a reasonable question...nothing to do with questioning their ulterior motives at all.

It shouldn't be offensive, it shouldn't cause indignation or some need to stick up for the possible hurt feelings of an entire group. We're talking about attempted murder here, and healing the life of a young woman who is still in very real danger. We need to be able to talk about things without tiptoeing around subjects. And everyone knows that due to some fairly divisive topics there are just certain things we just have to keep our mouths shut about. It's extremely frustrating.

Anyway turaj, it really could be people of any type of thinking on the jury. In my earlier post, when I said "it's not that type of area", I guess I really should have said "don't assume it's that type of area". Meaning can be a mix literally from one door to the next. Is it 50/50? No. It is heavy left leaning in my opinion. But obviously there are pockets that are conservative; I don't know how large the Iraqi and other ME immigrant community is but there were other Arabic speaking students at the bus stop as testimony showed in trial. So you kind of get horseshoe theory on that one--no conviction from one side for "x reasons" and no conviction from the opposite side for "y reasons".
*my opinion

 

[arielilane]

Mrs. Ali complete with big bouquet of flowers speaking to Court TV . She talks about this like just a problem with a teen. Wants her back home and husband to. No remorse of what happened at all.

She's clueless.

 

[Kalanit]

She's clueless.

Yep, just normal life, getting strangled and beat, go home, cook dinner.

Break the chain, Fatima.

 

[arielilane]

I cant speak for Washington state; however, I know that not all middle eastern people are like the Ali parents. Many are not. My comments in this thread were toward the defendants while they were on trial only. The Ali's are no different (in my mind) than any other parent abusing/attempting to murder/murdered their own child.
moo

 

[fridaybaker]

In the '90's there was a "push" for social services reform. The goal was to have skilled workers, who spoke the same language as people who needed services.

The problem with this, was that so many referrals to Child Protective Services, were based on parenting practices that were acceptable in the country of origin, but not in the United States. But the "CPS staff" who were the same cultural background, seemed to accept the poor parenting skills as "fine", based on their own social/cultural background. It was really a fiasco.

I really don't know how you get around this cultural conflict. Is it wise/possible to have entirely different legal practices for each different "cultural norm"? How does that work? Is FGM going to be acceptable in certain areas? Certain groups or families? What if the mother is of one culture and the father is of another? What about the young girl? Ditto any other cultural practice, such as in this case of "forced marriage". Because, while we can debate all we want about arranged marriages, in some countries, arranged marriages where the bride doesn't consent, or where the age of the bride is young enough that she can't reasonably be assumed to be able to make an informed consent (aka "forced marriages) are common and legally accepted, practice.

If certain areas, groups, etc. have their own "legal practices", where does it stop?

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

And this "finding offensive" is exactly the problem.
*my opinion.

I don't know what that means.

 

[Chimera]

"Not guilty" , of attempted murder ?
Disappointing, in my opinion only !
That attack looked intentionally lethal !!

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

BBM:

I've seen it work both ways.
The Chauvin case was covered nationally in the media and on social media.

People were and remain adamant that Derek Chauvin didn't kill George Floyd ( anyone who followed it knows all their reasons) and the jury voted to convict him out of fear for their personal safety and causing riots.
imo

But that's just it. Unless there's evidence of jurors being manipulated by ulterior motives, I just have to accept this is how they interpret culpability under the laws we have and within the parameters of their instructions. IMO. There are many cases where I don't agree with the verdict (Casey Anthony being the biggest), but assigning cultural bias as a reason, like in this case, doesn't cut it. MOO.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

I cant speak for Washington state; however, I know that not all middle eastern people are like the Ali parents. Many are not. My comments in this thread were toward the defendants while they were on trial only. The Ali's are no different (in my mind) than any other parent abusing/attempting to murder/murdered their own child.
moo

I agree, and that's kind of my point. I don't believe the jury was swayed by politics or culture. I believe they called it the way they saw it and many of us disagree with them. I'd feel the same no matter what the culture or nationality of the family was.

MOO.