WA WA - Shantina Smiley, 29, & Azriel Carver, 8 (fnd deceased), Olympia, Mar 2010 - #1

[BeanE]

"Mommy hit her head"

A head injury can cause erratic behaviour and confusion.

Yes, that's what I thought at first, but the information coming from her fiance is pointing me more towards alcohol and medication.

I just hope they can find this woman and her little boy, and that they are safe or can recover from any exposure to the elements.

 

[cj327]

Does anyone still really think the fiance, ex-boyfriend, ex-husband, stepfather, or random stranger/predator is involved in this disappearance? Because I think only two people were involved here - Shantina and Azriel, and the digging up of information on the men in her life seems kind of futile and inappropriate, JMO.

Shantina is a recovering alcoholic and had just relapsed; apparently she was also taking medication for anxiety. If she had mixed alcohol and Xanax or another benzodiazepine (anxiety medication), that would explain her disoriented behavior/falling in the diner parking lot. In fact, I think it clearly does explain it. It also explains her ending up where she did - I realize that road is a dead end and out of the way, but take a turn here and a turn there, while intoxicated, and it's likely she ended up there entirely on her own, tried to turn around, perhaps knowing the water was there, perhaps not, backed into the water, attempted to get out, but in her disoriented/intoxicated state stumbled/fell, and her poor son, in an attempt to save/help his mother, went down into the water with her. IMO they are in the water, sadly, and the searches should be focused there. Whoever suggested bringing in Tim Miller was right on.

I feel horrible for the little boy. It's pretty clear he was used to 'taking care' of his mother. He made the excuse 'she hit her head' to explain her erratic behavior when he likely knew very well she was drunk. If you look at the video posted of her entering the diner, she is smiling and looks quite 'jolly' - intoxicated. Anyway, being used to taking care of his mom, when she fell/stumbled trying to get out of the water, little Azriel's first instinct was not to save himself and get to dry land, but to take care of his mom and try to help her. I'm just afraid that by this point she was too far gone to walk on her own and pulled little Azriel down under with her. Truly tragic, but the simplest explanation and the one that makes the most sense, IMO.

This poor little boy. I can't stop thinking about him, trying to help his mom and get them to safety. I just see foul play as extremely unlikely in this case. And if Shantina and Azriel had gotten out of the water, they would have been found by now. Surely Azriel would have gone to fetch help. The only place they could be is in the water, really. Are there active searches going on there? Divers? Can't they bring dogs out on boats to alert them to the presence of people in the water?

Very insightful. I agree with basically everything you said. It's usually the simplest solution.
One exception though: At high tide, the water came only to the seats in the van. Assuming they got to the water around 10:30 pm, that was low tide, and the water level was a full 12 feet lower. So, the place where the van was stuck in the gravel was well above the edge of the water at 10:30 pm. The mother must have gotten out and walked down to the water...maybe her son followed. Sad.

 

[BeanE]

twitter per daughter

they called off the ground search in the area where the van was found.
41 minutes ago

I don't understand why they're calling it off so quickly. Is there that little area of woods or whatever where the little boy could be wandering around if his mother is unconscious?

 

[Calliope]

He said he's been having health issues and fears he might have cancer. So this past week he suggested they get married.

That is really weird. She has been referring to him as a fiance for much longer than a week. And she had a recent cancer scare but was found to be clean. It is in her myspace blogs.

Earlier today, his photography site was down, but the cached page showed a photo of Shantina and included a description of her as his fiance.

So we're supposed to believe everything this guy says because .... ???

 

[RubyRed]

I don't understand why they're calling it off so quickly. Is there that little area of woods or whatever where the little boy could be wandering around if his mother is unconscious?

I don't know why they are calling off search. I also think if the boy could he would get help. This is not looking good.

Here is daughter's twitter

http://twitter.com/NickyOnStarship

 

[impatientredhead]

I don't know why they are calling off search. I also think if the boy could he would get help. This is not looking good.

Here is daughter's twitter

http://twitter.com/NickyOnStarship

That page says she posted that two hours ago, which is about when it would have gotten dark here (I am local). It may just be called for the night.

We have seen so many of these where the body is found in very close distance to the vehicle but takes weeks or months to find. There are many houses in the area but there are also large areas of wooded areas. I still don't get how both of them could be missing if they are not in the water and the overnight bags are gone.

The back of the van is open though, maybe the son was trying to get the bags and he ends up in the water with her following him? The side door being open and the back hatch being open indicates he got out of the vehicle (on the surveillance tape he hops out the side door).

 

[PaulR]

(according to maps) He was a little over 100 miles from home, 2 1/4 hours after he says he left, when she supposedly called him; he said he'd pulled off to do a "minor" repair. What sort of repair? Where? What time did he get to that exit and how long did it take for him to do the "minor" repair?

Wait, I thought he was going into too much detail and was obviously trying to set up an alibi? :waitasec:

You can twitter his daughter and ask about exactly what repairs he made, what brand parts he used, etc. if you want.

The point is, he was already in Castle Rock long before she really went "missing" at 10pm. He has an alibi. I know we all want to be suspicious of anyone who doesn't act like we think someone should act, but this is silly.

 

[Texas Mist]

That page says she posted that two hours ago, which is about when it would have gotten dark here (I am local). It may just be called for the night.

We have seen so many of these where the body is found in very close distance to the vehicle but takes weeks or months to find. There are many houses in the area but there are also large areas of wooded areas. I still don't get how both of them could be missing if they are not in the water and the overnight bags are gone.

The back of the van is open though, maybe the son was trying to get the bags and he ends up in the water with her following him? The side door being open and the back hatch being open indicates he got out of the vehicle (on the surveillance tape he hops out the side door).

Here's what Robb had to say on NG tonite:

ROBB SIMMONS, FIANCE OF MISSING MOM, SHANTINA SMILEY: You know, last I heard that they called off the search in a local area, and my daughter found that out when we were transitioning over to this location. And she was really heartbroken. I reassured her that, you know, the search in the location they have, you can only turn the rocks over in that area so many times, it`s not going to change.

And that with that -- you know the regrouping that they do in these searches they`re going to be looking all over the place. It`s going to spread out and with the media coverage and seeing the face of Azriel and Shantina on TV that, you know, everybody who sees this is now, you know, involved in this search.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1003/16/ng.01.html

 

[PaulR]

I don't understand why they're calling it off so quickly. Is there that little area of woods or whatever where the little boy could be wandering around if his mother is unconscious?

It looks to be quite a big area of woods.

 

[SuziQ]

I wish we knew the where the dogs caught there scent and where they lost it.

 

[Lipin One]

Does anyone still really think the fiance, ex-boyfriend, ex-husband, stepfather, or random stranger/predator is involved in this disappearance? Because I think only two people were involved here - Shantina and Azriel, and the digging up of information on the men in her life seems kind of futile and inappropriate, JMO.

Shantina is a recovering alcoholic and had just relapsed; apparently she was also taking medication for anxiety. If she had mixed alcohol and Xanax or another benzodiazepine (anxiety medication), that would explain her disoriented behavior/falling in the diner parking lot. In fact, I think it clearly does explain it. It also explains her ending up where she did - I realize that road is a dead end and out of the way, but take a turn here and a turn there, while intoxicated, and it's likely she ended up there entirely on her own, tried to turn around, perhaps knowing the water was there, perhaps not, backed into the water, attempted to get out, but in her disoriented/intoxicated state stumbled/fell, and her poor son, in an attempt to save/help his mother, went down into the water with her. IMO they are in the water, sadly, and the searches should be focused there. Whoever suggested bringing in Tim Miller was right on.

I feel horrible for the little boy. It's pretty clear he was used to 'taking care' of his mother. He made the excuse 'she hit her head' to explain her erratic behavior when he likely knew very well she was drunk. If you look at the video posted of her entering the diner, she is smiling and looks quite 'jolly' - intoxicated. Anyway, being used to taking care of his mom, when she fell/stumbled trying to get out of the water, little Azriel's first instinct was not to save himself and get to dry land, but to take care of his mom and try to help her. I'm just afraid that by this point she was too far gone to walk on her own and pulled little Azriel down under with her. Truly tragic, but the simplest explanation and the one that makes the most sense, IMO.

This poor little boy. I can't stop thinking about him, trying to help his mom and get them to safety. I just see foul play as extremely unlikely in this case. And if Shantina and Azriel had gotten out of the water, they would have been found by now. Surely Azriel would have gone to fetch help. The only place they could be is in the water, really. Are there active searches going on there? Divers? Can't they bring dogs out on boats to alert them to the presence of people in the water?

The reason we explore other "options" is that if anything we have all learned from previous cases such as this is that things sometimes are not what they appear to be.

And, people who have appeared all loving, caring, and innocent have turned out to be the perpetrators, and those who appear guilty sometimes are the innocent ones.

In this case, we are taking the information about her alcoholism and the psych meds situation from the "source"... in this case ONLY from the boyfriend.

When the police comes out and say, "yes" there was an alcohol or prescription drug problem, then I will believe it (as I suppose they would have investigated the case and concluded that it is the truth.)

So, in the meantime, just trust no one.

 

[anyoldtime48]

Does anyone still really think the fiance, ex-boyfriend, ex-husband, stepfather, or random stranger/predator is involved in this disappearance? Because I think only two people were involved here - Shantina and Azriel, and the digging up of information on the men in her life seems kind of futile and inappropriate, JMO.

Shantina is a recovering alcoholic and had just relapsed; apparently she was also taking medication for anxiety. If she had mixed alcohol and Xanax or another benzodiazepine (anxiety medication), that would explain her disoriented behavior/falling in the diner parking lot. In fact, I think it clearly does explain it. It also explains her ending up where she did - I realize that road is a dead end and out of the way, but take a turn here and a turn there, while intoxicated, and it's likely she ended up there entirely on her own, tried to turn around, perhaps knowing the water was there, perhaps not, backed into the water, attempted to get out, but in her disoriented/intoxicated state stumbled/fell, and her poor son, in an attempt to save/help his mother, went down into the water with her. IMO they are in the water, sadly, and the searches should be focused there. Whoever suggested bringing in Tim Miller was right on.

I feel horrible for the little boy. It's pretty clear he was used to 'taking care' of his mother. He made the excuse 'she hit her head' to explain her erratic behavior when he likely knew very well she was drunk. If you look at the video posted of her entering the diner, she is smiling and looks quite 'jolly' - intoxicated. Anyway, being used to taking care of his mom, when she fell/stumbled trying to get out of the water, little Azriel's first instinct was not to save himself and get to dry land, but to take care of his mom and try to help her. I'm just afraid that by this point she was too far gone to walk on her own and pulled little Azriel down under with her. Truly tragic, but the simplest explanation and the one that makes the most sense, IMO.

This poor little boy. I can't stop thinking about him, trying to help his mom and get them to safety. I just see foul play as extremely unlikely in this case. And if Shantina and Azriel had gotten out of the water, they would have been found by now. Surely Azriel would have gone to fetch help. The only place they could be is in the water, really. Are there active searches going on there? Divers? Can't they bring dogs out on boats to alert them to the presence of people in the water?

Not at all uncommon for people in the Pacific Northwest to be friendly and smile at strangers in a social type situation, especially when entering a place of business with intent to ask for directions -- more flies with honey so to speak. It was the Handy Mart, by the way, not the restaurant, where that video was shot. Nothing "overly" jolly in my mind.

With tide out at the presumed time she arrived at the beach, and indication she had tried to turn around, gotten stuck, and spun the wheels trying to get out, no way they were immediately under water. Most likely long gone from the van by the time the water was up to seat level, which is as far as it got.

There are an awful lot of heavily wooded areas around there, and if the dogs failed to get a good scent off the beach, OR they were picked up on a nearby road by someone with less than good intentions, they could either still be somewhere in those woods or off who knows where.

Water searches have been done, and there is special side(?) sonar they will be using, if they haven't already, that will give LE a virtual map of a very wide area of the Inlet floor surrounding where the van ended up parked on the beach.

If that shows nothing, a massive ground search by volunteers might be in order to at the very least rule out any likelihood that she is within X miles of the beach.

 

[BeanE]

It looks to be quite a big area of woods.

I hope it's only being called off for the night, and that they'll continue it in the morning, as they're searching the water with that sonar device. I just can't stand the thought of this woman and little boy lying out in the woods half conscious and nobody trying to find them.

 

[alsmom]

If she is an alcoholic, she very well could be abusing her anxiety meds. Usually a doctor will not give anxiety meds to a known alcoholic. They are given in the beginning of recovery to stop the shakes and such but after that they are usually not prescribed.

 

[PaulR]

Why would she relapse after all that work?

You don't know any alcoholics This happens all too often, sadly.

Is there a law in WA State, unlawful to use cellphones while driving? Couldn't AZ have answered it?

There is a law yes (just made more potent.) AZ would have needed physical access to it, and he was forced to be in the back seat due to his age. So she could have put the purse in the back, or given him the cell...

Why would she call him twice, from the home phone to tell him she was leaving, and not remember to take her cell when he asks her to bring his charger? She is on a landline phone, calling him TWICE, but forgets to take her cell???? Did she bring his charger? Was it found in the van?

If she usually kept her cell in her purse, she would have taken "the purse" and assumed that the cell was inside. If the cell was outside of her purse (say, charging), she may have forgotten to put it back inside the purse before leaving.

 

[RubyRed]

Someone in an earlier post (sorry do not remember who) mentioned the possibility they may have decided to sleep in van . Perhaps they awoke to the water being higher ( seat level) then got out. Anything could have went wrong if that were the case. jmo

 

[anyoldtime48]

I wish we knew the where the dogs caught there scent and where they lost it.

AMEN to that! Would be helpful to get a start point if/when locals volunteer to get out and help with a ground search. Looks like temps are headed to below freezing in Olympia area Wed night for a few days, so time is of the essence if they are out there on the ground somewhere.

 

[trigger]

Since shes been taking meds and had a relapse last week why why why did he let her go alone??? Was she acting this way last week then? Was she confused, disoriented? My heart breaks for this boy. God where are they?

Heres the video of her ex husband. Sorry if already posted.

http://www.king5.com/news/local/Nat...-in-finding-missing-mom-and-son-87825797.html

 

[yosande]

Investigators have determined that Shantina left Silverdale at 5 p.m. Saturday. At 6:45 p.m. she called her boyfriend from a pay phone asking him to get her cell phone, but he didn't answer, Mealy said

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/87628727.html


I thought that was when he got the address of his destination?


ETA; This is also from post #1;
Friends say she is responsible, and very loving, and has no history of drug use.''





Detectives say they're trying to learn all they can about Smiley's emotional state and trying to determine if she had any mental or physical health problems Saturday night. She has no history of such problems.
http://www.king5.com/news/local/Nat...-in-finding-missing-mom-and-son-87825797.html

 

[BeanE]

Since shes been taking meds and had a relapse last week why why why did he let her go alone??? Was she acting this way last week then? Was she confused, disoriented? My heart breaks for this boy. God where are they?

Heres the video of her ex husband. Sorry if already posted.

http://www.king5.com/news/local/Nat...-in-finding-missing-mom-and-son-87825797.html

The way it was worded at first, I thought she had had one drinking episode a week ago. Now the wording has led me to believe she may have been drinking since last week, that is, more than once and continuing.

The missing woman’s fiancé, Robert Simmons, told KIRO 7 reporter Richard Thompson that Smiley is an alcoholic and that she had a relapse last week and began drinking again.

http://www.kirotv.com/news/22859850/detail.html

So this past week he suggested they get married.
That's when she started drinking again

http://www.nwcn.com/news/washington...-in-finding-missing-mom-and-son-87825797.html

I am keeping in mind that many reporters have deadlines, and write quickly, and may not mean what they write literally. I always really prefer quotes directly from a source to a reporter saying their interpretation of what someone else has said.

Hopefully tomorrow we'll have more accurate information.