WA WA - Shantina Smiley, 29, & Azriel Carver, 8 (fnd deceased), Olympia, Mar 2010 - #4

[BeanE]

I swear there was an audio interview with the waitress describing her experience with SS. She does say she acted drunk. That was before anyone knew of the relapse or of the wine.

Oh if you come across that, could you post the link please?

 

[90Nine]

Hmm. Maybe this is why LE has decided to stop searching for the time being and instead follow leads & solicit tips...

The Williams said she didn't have shoes on when she came to the door.

 

[Allyne]

wow. interesting. one says she seemed drunk. kid tells the other one she hit her head. commenter mentions concussion. sounds like they served alcohol there, too--even though she didn't drink there, she stopped at a place that served. even still she didn't drink. weird. maybe she did or didn't know that? lots of wonder-whats... maybe LE will give us some info abt any further investigating they have done over the past day or two tomorrow.

This person is writing to a stepdaughter that commented in that thread.

 

[90Nine]

Oh if you come across that, could you post the link please?

I'm looking for it. I will probably find it tomorrow and post it

 

[Calliope]

The original comment is on one news site. The article containing the redacted comment is on another.

Well, now I'm confused. I'll come back to this later when I'm awake and alert.

 

[Calliope]

This person is writing to a stepdaughter that commented in that thread.

?

So step-daughter says employee (owner?) says waitress says....

 

[Calliope]

Good point...

Well that possibly leads to some scenarios considerably darker than accidental drowning.

 

[Miss Optimism]

IF she was drinking with her child in the car, yes.

No proof of that yet.

I wasn't even referring to her possibly drinking with her child in the car. I was responding to another post.

snipped & bold by me:

In the work I do, people like to say 'the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior'. I don't agree with this all the time. When I do tend to agree with it is when people over and over again make the same decisions, even if they have been extremely poor choices in the past.

SS has 10 reports into CPS. She has a DUI and a hit and run. From my research I found that the original DUI case goes back to 2001 - revisited in 2005 and then CPS took her son away from her for 1 year in 2007 because of an alcohol related incident that put him in danger. This tells me that she is very capable of repeating these poor choices. You can also see a pattern with the years; 2001, 2005,2007 now 2010.

 

[yosande]

I was referring to the comments on these threads or other forums or on news sites. Some remain open to other possibilities, but for the most part once the word "alcoholic" was uttered, all other potential scenarios were tossed aside.

imo, it was when Az's body was found, and not the "alcoholic" word.
I was questioning why RS would even bring her "alcoholism" up days later, and not at the beginning. I soon found out it was d/t the video of her buying the wine. Even then I thought she could have bought it as a gift for her stepdad whom she hadn't seen in "several years."

But when Az was found, not long after, or just before the video came out, I did jump to the conclusion that it was a murder/suicide.

Now that I'm calmer, my mind goes toward a Susan Smith scenario.
i hope my mind doesn't stay there. I'd rather believe anything else.

However, I struggle with Az's last meal being walked out on.
If not for the pizza he just happened to get, he would have died hungry, and that reeks of something. moo

 

[Calliope]

I wasn't even referring to her possibly drinking with her child in the car. I was responding to another post.

snipped & bold by me:

She was neglectful of her son then, yes. That is why he was taken from her.

 

[Calliope]

imo, it was when Az's body was found, and not the "alcoholic" word.
I was questioning why RS would even bring her "alcoholism" up days later, and not at the beginning. I soon found out it was d/t the video of her buying the wine. Even then I thought she could have bought it as a gift for her stepdad whom she hadn't seen in "several years."

But when Az was found, not long after, or just before the video came out, I did jump to the conclusion that it was a murder/suicide.

Now that I'm calmer, my mind goes toward a Susan Smith scenario.
i hope my mind doesn't stay there. I'd rather believe anything else.

However, I struggle with Az's last meal being walked out on.
If not for the pizza he just happened to get, he would have died hungry, and that reeks of something. moo

What if it was to be a murder/suicide, and she wimped out?

 

[belimom]

What if it was to be a murder/suicide, and she wimped out?

I don't believe this was a murder/suicide, or even a planned murder/suicide that went awry. If so, she deserves an Oscar for the videos in the hours leading up to it. Most folks desperate enough to commit suicide don't have the energy or the emotional strength to put on such a show beforehand (talking with the family whose home she stopped at, laughing/smiling in some of the videos, etc. I think she would have just 'done the deed' and not been seen in such public places).

I could be wrong, but I think that her son drowned accidentally. If so (and if she was not abducted or harmed by someone), then I think she may have since committed suicide. But for some reason this doesn't seem like the original intent to me.

 

[Calliope]

I don't believe this was a murder/suicide, or even a planned murder/suicide that went awry. If so, she deserves an Oscar for the videos in the hours leading up to it. Most folks desperate enough to commit suicide don't have the energy or the emotional strength to put on such a show beforehand (talking with the family whose home she stopped at, laughing/smiling in some of the videos, etc. I think she would have just 'done the deed' and not been seen in such public places).

I could be wrong, but I think that her son drowned accidentally. If so (and if she was not abducted or harmed by someone), then I think she may have since committed suicide. But for some reason this doesn't seem like the original intent to me.

I don't think so either, really. She'd not only get an Oscar for her performance that night, but apparently for her performance in her life over at least the last couple of years. Well, the one that we know of that is.

 

[SMK]

90Nine, IMHO I truly feel like this case is not receiving the vast media attn.that it WAS(when AZ was missing), and isnt continuing(after AZ being found) with that VAST media attn that we all here believe that it should still be getting. And I believe the reason for this is because of the many negative "issues" that have come to light about SS. I believe that partly for the reason of my speaking with clients of mine about this case and this generally is what I am hearing from them. They do not "feel" anything but anger and disgust for SS(which many of us do too) but for the most part they see this case as OVER. OVER because they think not a chance in H*** that she is anywhere but in that water and they believe thats where she deserves to be and could care less if her body ever surfaces. This Ive gotten from just speaking with others in my area. It seems to be the common feeling of most. As I said I know there are many of us here at this BB that feel very similarly BUT we want to know the WHYS, WHEN, WHERE&see it through to the end as we do for most cases. But i BELIEVE THE FEELING OF MOST ACROSS NATION IS SIMILAR AND AS WE KNOW THE MEDIA PRETTY MUCH FOLLOWS SUIT AS TO WHAT THEIR VIEWERS ARE INTERESTED. I personally believe this is wrong and wish the media would continue to press this case.Bcuz as we've all seen before seems as tho once the media quits pressing LE isnt far behind in it not being their priority, either. I want to see this through to some sort of conclusion and find out that that small chance that she got into someone else's vehicle(voluntary or involuntary)and left that beach that night.... As I said in MOO!

I agree 100%!!

 

[SMK]

Yes, that is a question: Did she actually have a purse with her?
Also, just a thought that went through my head as time has passed: I do agree that when the boy's body was found, coupled with the CPS and DUI reports, it pretty much shifted to, "end of story: Negligent Mom got kid drowned and drowned, too. Good riddance". And yet, there DOES remain the possibility of foul play. That she was taken, and that the child and van were ditched. And if that surfaces, she, too, will be a victim, though careless and negligent in other ways.

 

[Midgie'smom]

Hi -- I'm new here but have been lurking on and off for a couple of years, mainly following the disappearance of Nicholas Francisco and now this case because they're both local. I live in Seattle, but grew up on the Olympic Peninsula and have relatives living in Poulsbo, Shelton and Silverdale. I don't post on message boards, so please forgive me if I'm missing some proper posting etiquitte!

I've been following the disappearance of Shantina and Azriel from the beginning and was devastated when Azriel's body was found. I was so sure that they had both, somehow, walked away from the car.

I think I've read most of the posts in all of the threads and must admit that some of the details have become jumbled up in my head, but a couple of things are really bothering me. First is the tide thing. As a child I spent many summers swimming in Hood Canal and the tides just didn't seem to move that fast. Someone in an earlier post said 2 mph, but I can't picture how fast that would be. All I remember is sitting on the steps to the beach, waiting for the tide to be high enough to swim so we could avoid walking on the barnacle-covered rocks. It always seemed to move very, very slowly.

It seems to me that if someone were sleeping in a van and the tide started to come in, the cold water would wake you up fast. Let's say you were sleeping on the seat and your feet weren't on the floor, how high would be water be off the floor of the Sound before you felt it? 3 feet or so? So, you open the side door to get out. Little Azriel would struggle in 3 feet of water, especially with heavy shoes and jeans. But I would think that an adult (even an impaired adult) could manage just fine. Even if it were windy and there were waves, that's a pretty narrow area of the sound and I don't know if the waves would get that high. That makes me think he was in the van alone.

I remember reading that LE mentioned that the currents were very forceful; I have a lot of trouble believing that, given that the area was in somewhat of a cove and again, in a narrow portion of the Sound. But of course, I could be way off base on that.

Just want to add -- reading all of your posts has been so enlightening! Some of the details you've all come up with are amazing. I wonder if LE reads these??

 

[tlcya]

I understand the rule of not sleuthering minors, and I accept it wholeheartedly.

But, I would like to point out that if those "significant others" of victims couldn't be sleuthered, Scott Peterson, Susan Smith, Casey Anthony, Josh Power, etc... etc... etc... would've never be spoken of in this bulletin board until they were arrested.

I hope this doesn't get me in trouble. Just wanted to point this out in the nicest way.

Duly noted Lipin, however when people around the victims are sleuthed it is usually after they become POI of LE not after their arrests. But we try to err on the side of caution in throwing out names, theories and blame on peripheral victims til we have some reason to suspect them of something other than simply being associated with the victim.

In other words, guilt by association = not enough justification to sleuth
PIO to LE, inconsistent statements, lack of aliby, hinky and stinky information, etc. = justification to start sleuthing someone.

If anyone ever has a doubt whether sleuthing someone is approriate or not Tricia or any of the wonderful moderators are always willing to offer guidance.

 

[SMK]

Hi -- I'm new here but have been lurking on and off for a couple of years, mainly following the disappearance of Nicholas Francisco and now this case because they're both local. I live in Seattle, but grew up on the Olympic Peninsula and have relatives living in Poulsbo, Shelton and Silverdale. I don't post on message boards, so please forgive me if I'm missing some proper posting etiquitte!

I've been following the disappearance of Shantina and Azriel from the beginning and was devastated when Azriel's body was found. I was so sure that they had both, somehow, walked away from the car.

I think I've read most of the posts in all of the threads and must admit that some of the details have become jumbled up in my head, but a couple of things are really bothering me. First is the tide thing. As a child I spent many summers swimming in Hood Canal and the tides just didn't seem to move that fast. Someone in an earlier post said 2 mph, but I can't picture how fast that would be. All I remember is sitting on the steps to the beach, waiting for the tide to be high enough to swim so we could avoid walking on the barnacle-covered rocks. It always seemed to move very, very slowly.

It seems to me that if someone were sleeping in a van and the tide started to come in, the cold water would wake you up fast. Let's say you were sleeping on the seat and your feet weren't on the floor, how high would be water be off the floor of the Sound before you felt it? 3 feet or so? So, you open the side door to get out. Little Azriel would struggle in 3 feet of water, especially with heavy shoes and jeans. But I would think that an adult (even an impaired adult) could manage just fine. Even if it were windy and there were waves, that's a pretty narrow area of the sound and I don't know if the waves would get that high. That makes me think he was in the van alone.

I remember reading that LE mentioned that the currents were very forceful; I have a lot of trouble believing that, given that the area was in somewhat of a cove and again, in a narrow portion of the Sound. But of course, I could be way off base on that.

Just want to add -- reading all of your posts has been so enlightening! Some of the details you've all come up with are amazing. I wonder if LE reads these??

If you are correct, then this is very interesting. The one thing that "sold" me on their accidental drowning was LE speaking of the "ferocious currents". But if you are correct, do you mean LE was misinformed, or deliberately "buying time" (ie, they have another theory they are working on, but do not wish to speak to the public on it)?

 

[Calliope]

Yes, that is a question: Did she actually have a purse with her?
Also, just a thought that went through my head as time has passed: I do agree that when the boy's body was found, coupled with the CPS and DUI reports, it pretty much shifted to, "end of story: Negligent Mom got kid drowned and drowned, too. Good riddance". And yet, there DOES remain the possibility of foul play. That she was taken, and that the child and van were ditched. And if that surfaces, she, too, will be a victim, though careless and negligent in other ways.

Her myspace is open to view photos (and there are a LOT of photos). I don't recall seeing her carrying a purse, but there are so many I could be wrong. I really wasn't looking at that, just trying to get a feel for her and Azriel. At least until the point those photos were posted (and I'm not sure how to tell other than her last login date), she seemed to be very happy and it's clear Azriel was her life. If something happened to push her to the edge, it was huge, or perhaps a series of stressors that were too much for her to handle. But even that seems far-fetched, from what I've read. She had a near perfect GPA while caring for a 5 to 7 year old, plus an "instant" family complete with a teenage step-daughter-to-be and every other weekend with a young step-son-to-be; she admitted it was stressful, but she had the energy and stamina to do it. Hell, it wore me out just reading her blogs and looking at the photos. I'm having a hard time reconciling what I've seen, read, and heard, with her behaviour that evening. Perhaps there was some drinking, but to me that doesn't explain it all. I still believe that RS wasn't supposed to come along on this visit, and that her actions were to avoid a confrontation of sorts.

But I keep thinking about the van... it just doesn't sit right with me.

 

[SMK]

Her myspace is open to view photos (and there are a LOT of photos). I don't recall seeing her carrying a purse, but there are so many I could be wrong. I really wasn't looking at that, just trying to get a feel for her and Azriel. At least until the point those photos were posted (and I'm not sure how to tell other than her last login date), she seemed to be very happy and it's clear Azriel was her life. If something happened to push her to the edge, it was huge, or perhaps a series of stressors that were too much for her to handle. But even that seems far-fetched, from what I've read. She had a near perfect GPA while caring for a 5 to 7 year old, plus an "instant" family complete with a teenage step-daughter-to-be and every other weekend with a young step-son-to-be; she admitted it was stressful, but she had the energy and stamina to do it. Hell, it wore me out just reading her blogs and looking at the photos. I'm having a hard time reconciling what I've seen, read, and heard, with her behaviour that evening. Perhaps there was some drinking, but to me that doesn't explain it all. I still believe that RS wasn't supposed to come along on this visit, and that her actions were to avoid a confrontation of sorts.

But I keep thinking about the van... it just doesn't sit right with me.

Thank you for this! You have put into words my own feelings: Her energy to go to college, study, achieve good grades, learn photography, get her child into scouts, trying to enter an engagement: Does not square with a totally disorganized person who would not have the wherewithal to make it through a night. "Recovering alcholic" + DUI+ CPS have wiped away much of what was good and solid about her. If she should later prove to be a victim of foul play.....Keep going round in circles about this case....