WA WA - Shantina Smiley, 29, & Azriel Carver, 8 (fnd deceased), Olympia, Mar 2010 - #4

[ajfa]

"She originally had an overnight bag it was found not in car."

I have a thought - maybe the words [found & not] were inadvertently switched. I haven't seen it discussed anywhere and my guess is if this were true, we would be hearing much more about it. moo

Switching the words seems like a good possibility. According to the Seattle Times, No one was found in the abandoned car. A wallet was inside, but Smiley's purse was gone. Chamberlain said if the woman and her son had packed an overnight bag for their trip, that luggage also was gone.

And this from ABC news, Investigators found Smiley's wallet, ID card and credit card in the van, but no purse. There were also no overnight bags in the van, despite the fact that Smiley and her son were planning to go away for the weekend.

 

[JessInOly]

Thanks for the info Poway....that makes TOTAL sense! So, I guess the size 13, may have been in the van already, or it came from some other guy...as I looked at the videos again, Az was not wearing the black shoes, thats for sure. So we know he had an extra pair of shoes in the van. Makes me a bit more inclined to beleive that extra clothes were brought along, just missing too? What do you think? Wouldn't RS have identified his own 13 shoe? Maybe he did but we do not know.

 

[BeanE]

But, the ex I meant was the one interviewed from Castle Rock. I was asking if anyone knew an alibi for him

The ex doesn't need to give us an alibi. He hasn't done anything wrong. We don't sleuth innocent people, because it is invasive of their privacy, and in many of these instances, these people are grieving in the wake of tragedy.

Thanks,
BeanE

 

[Lipin One]

Switching the words seems like a good possibility. According to the Seattle Times, No one was found in the abandoned car. A wallet was inside, but Smiley's purse was gone. Chamberlain said if the woman and her son had packed an overnight bag for their trip, that luggage also was gone.

And this from ABC news, Investigators found Smiley's wallet, ID card and credit card in the van, but no purse. There were also no overnight bags in the van, despite the fact that Smiley and her son were planning to go away for the weekend.

Okay, let's make a list of stuff people bring along on overnight trips:

Overnight bag, she had none.

Purse to hold wallet, money, and stuff, she had none.

Nice womanly shoes, or sandals... nope, only black hiking male-type shoes, if those shown around are hers.

Foods/snacks... nope, she had to buy them.

Water (well, at least I bring water or soda on trips)... nope, she had to buy those too.

A map, even if route is known. Now people use GPS, but I rather navigate the old fashion way.

A blanket, pillow, movies or music DVDs, a camera to take pictures, present for host. Not sure if she would bring those, maybe one or two of those.

-------

What was found:

Yellow ball.

Asthma contraptions.

Two unmatched shoes on the beach.

Half bottle of cheap wine.

Wallet with ID, money on back seat.

Books and coloring things for the boy, though most of their trip was going to be at night.

 

[SMK]

Okay, let's make a list of stuff people bring along on overnight trips:

Overnight bag, she had none.

Purse to hold wallet, money, and stuff, she had none.

Nice womanly shoes, or sandals... nope, only black hiking male-type shoes, if those shown around are hers.

Foods/snacks... nope, she had to buy them.

Water (well, at least I bring water or soda on trips)... nope, she had to buy those too.

A map, even if route is known. Now people use GPS, but I rather navigate the old fashion way.

A blanket, pillow, movies or music DVDs, a camera to take pictures, present for host. Not sure if she would bring those, maybe one or two of those.

-------

What was found:

Yellow ball.

Asthma contraptions.

Two unmatched shoes on the beach.

Half bottle of cheap wine.

Wallet with ID, money on back seat.

Books and coloring things for the boy, though most of their trip was going to be at night.

Interesting list. The only time I've ever packed this badly for a trip is if I was really down about it, and half-hearted about going. She may have been in that frame of mind, or not really planning to go.

 

[packerdog]

Okay, let's make a list of stuff people bring along on overnight trips:

Overnight bag, she had none.

Purse to hold wallet, money, and stuff, she had none.

Nice womanly shoes, or sandals... nope, only black hiking male-type shoes, if those shown around are hers.

Foods/snacks... nope, she had to buy them.

Water (well, at least I bring water or soda on trips)... nope, she had to buy those too.

A map, even if route is known. Now people use GPS, but I rather navigate the old fashion way.

A blanket, pillow, movies or music DVDs, a camera to take pictures, present for host. Not sure if she would bring those, maybe one or two of those.

-------

What was found:

Yellow ball.

Asthma contraptions.

Two unmatched shoes on the beach.

Half bottle of cheap wine.

Wallet with ID, money on back seat.

Books and coloring things for the boy, though most of their trip was going to be at night.

You forgot the wine opener. I know they mentioned the bottle being recorked. I am quite sure that other belongings she may have had are long gone due to the tide. I am surprised that the items that did wash up made it to shore. If her body hasn't been found I am sure her other personal belongings have sunk or washed away.

 

[ajfa]

Respectfully snipped.

http://www.robbsimmons.com/Flyer.pd

"She originally had an overnight bag it was found not in car."

This is a direct quote from the flier, lack of punctuation is exactly how it was posted on the flier.

The statement bolded above that "She originally had an overnight bag . . .," together with the LE and news reports that there was no overnight bag or purse in the van, does stand out to me.

Why was no purse or overnight bag found if they were originally taken by SS on the trip?

Perhaps they were stolen from inside the van while SS was driving from place to place?

Or perhaps someone came across the van stuck on the beach before it was reported and removed the purse and overnight bag, overlooking the wallet which may have been concealed? The van was found with the side door and hatch open, making it, and anything inside, very accessible.

What seems to me to be similar about a purse and an overnight bag is that both may have handles and therefore easier to grab and run. If one was in a hurry other items not so easily grabbed might be overlooked.

Just throwing out ideas. JMHO

 

[gogrannypop]

You forgot the wine opener. I know they mentioned the bottle being recorked. I am quite sure that other belongings she may have had are long gone due to the tide. I am surprised that the items that did wash up made it to shore. If her body hasn't been found I am sure her other personal belongings have sunk or washed away.

IIRC the bottle had a screw top.

 

[slowpoke]

You forgot the wine opener. I know they mentioned the bottle being recorked. I am quite sure that other belongings she may have had are long gone due to the tide. I am surprised that the items that did wash up made it to shore. If her body hasn't been found I am sure her other personal belongings have sunk or washed away.

You're right that news accounts use the term "corked" in regards to the wine bottle, but no wine opener is needed for Carlo Rossi jug wine. It has a screw-on type of cap.

I was thinking it is possible she did take along small snacks and water, but just enough for a 2-hr trip (isn't that about how long the trip was supposed to take?).

When we see the video of her buying the wine and her son buying a bottle of water, was at the Handy Pantry at 7:50pm. That's almost 3 hrs if she had left Silverdale at 5:00pm. So Azriel could have drank up what he brought by then, ate his little snack and was getting hungry for something more substantial by then, maybe? One news article mentioned "she told the family she'd left the highway to find her son a bathroom" so perhaps he had been drinking water and now needed to "go".

Just thoughts.

 

[SMK]

Just throwing an idea out:
Its obvious at this point that either:
a. This was a tragedy in which Shantina and Azriel were caught by high tide and drowned or
b. There is something more complicated, involving a third party, and this is not what it seems.

I find myself wanting to accept a and "move on", but something keeps pulling me toward b. Is this just delusional, or wishful thinking? Are there others who lean toward b?

 

[Jules71]

According to what I've read, RS said he brought "scent items" for LE to use.

I have no idea if LE accompanied RS to the home to ensure that the scent items were articles (used clothing or bedsheets of the missing persons) that would provide the best possible scent for the tracking dogs.

It's interesting to me that upon arrival on that beach at approx. 11:00 p.m.(according to LE), SS & Az never left the van. I'm basing this comment on the news articles that report that the scent dogs failed to located their scent on the beach or the surrounding area.

I believe I read the same thing - RS brought scent items. IMO, this is not a proper way to obtain and maintain the integrity of scent items. This could explain why the dogs did not pick up on a scent trail (or for very long, if they did).

 

[Lipin One]

I believe I read the same thing - RS brought scent items. IMO, this is not a proper way to obtain and maintain the integrity of scent items. This could explain why the dogs did not pick up on a scent trail (or for very long, if they did).

Were you trying to say that the items were maybe washed and depleted of body scent, or maybe haven't been used in ages, or maybe not belonging to them?

Just wondering.

 

[SMK]

I believe I read the same thing - RS brought scent items. IMO, this is not a proper way to obtain and maintain the integrity of scent items. This could explain why the dogs did not pick up on a scent trail (or for very long, if they did).

This really changes things, to my thinking. I had no idea there was any particular protocol, or that LE would stray from it. But it happens, and perhaps they were incompetent in this area?

 

[Calliope]

Just throwing an idea out:
Its obvious at this point that either:
a. This was a tragedy in which Shantina and Azriel were caught by high tide and drowned or
b. There is something more complicated, involving a third party, and this is not what it seems.

I find myself wanting to accept a and "move on", but something keeps pulling me toward b. Is this just delusional, or wishful thinking? Are there others who lean toward b?

I certainly believe there is something more complicated and it's not as it seems. Whether there is a 3rd party involved, I don't know. But I don't believe she sets out on a 2 hour trip and half-way through starts acting bizarre, wanders all over creation, finds that particular path in the dark, parks the van at the water's edge and then is washed off to sea.

 

[Calliope]

According to what I've read, RS said he brought "scent items" for LE to use.

I have no idea if LE accompanied RS to the home to ensure that the scent items were articles (used clothing or bedsheets of the missing persons) that would provide the best possible scent for the tracking dogs.

It's interesting to me that upon arrival on that beach at approx. 11:00 p.m.(according to LE), SS & Az never left the van. I'm basing this comment on the news articles that report that the scent dogs failed to located their scent on the beach or the surrounding area.

If they never left the van, how did the rear hatch get open? And why?

 

[BeanE]

Just throwing an idea out:
Its obvious at this point that either:
a. This was a tragedy in which Shantina and Azriel were caught by high tide and drowned or
b. There is something more complicated, involving a third party, and this is not what it seems.

I find myself wanting to accept a and "move on", but something keeps pulling me toward b. Is this just delusional, or wishful thinking? Are there others who lean toward b?

Whatever happened, I don't think anyone other than Shantina and Azriel were involved. I don't think there was any sort of foul play.

 

[SMK]

I certainly believe there is something more complicated and it's not as it seems. Whether there is a 3rd party involved, I don't know. But I don't believe she sets out on a 2 hour trip and half-way through starts acting bizarre, wanders all over creation, finds that particular path in the dark, parks the van at the water's edge and then is washed off to sea.

Thanks for this, and yes, I, too , have a hard time believing that this is just "one of those things". Something very haunting about this case, and I expect some new disclosures at some juncture.

 

[BeanE]

This really changes things, to my thinking. I had no idea there was any particular protocol, or that LE would stray from it. But it happens, and perhaps they were incompetent in this area?

Do you have a link to information that says there is a certain protocol for LE and that LE did not follow it in this case?

Is there any reason to believe that LE was incompetent and did not properly instruct RS as to what types and conditions of items to bring?

I know that LE stated that RS was fully cooperative.

 

[SMK]

Whatever happened, I don't think anyone other than Shantina and Azriel were involved. I don't think there was any sort of foul play.

I guess logic supports this, but I cannot help feeling that there is some piece of the puzzle missing. Could be just me. Not necessarily a third party, I agree. But somehow seems to be a gap. I guess it is the knock on the door at 1 am, and some of the other little things. Thanks for your input. You are most probably correct.

 

[RubyRed]

I believe I read the same thing - RS brought scent items. IMO, this is not a proper way to obtain and maintain the integrity of scent items. This could explain why the dogs did not pick up on a scent trail (or for very long, if they did).

Were you trying to say that the items were maybe washed and depleted of body scent, or maybe haven't been used in ages, or maybe not belonging to them?

Just wondering.

This really changes things, to my thinking. I had no idea there was any particular protocol, or that LE would stray from it. But it happens, and perhaps they were incompetent in this area?

Is it being insinuated that LE didn't follow the procedure of obtaining scent items and are incompetent? Where is this proof? So the scent dogs went on a wild goose chase because RS gave LE useless scent items? The man was desperate to find Shantina and Azriel. I am sure he followed their instructions. There is no proof of wrong doing by LE or RS. To suggest otherwise, with no concrete evidence, would be ridiculous conjecture. This is my opinion only.