WA WA - Shantina Smiley, 29, & Azriel Carver, 8 (fnd deceased), Olympia, Mar 2010 - #4

[powayparent]

Here's the first interesting thing. Why not use the car as your scent article? It's a common and effective practice. You use sterile gauze, swipe the seat and there you go. I don't know why they would have gone anywhere when they had the car for both the PLS and scent.
It is unwise to have anyone but trained personnel fetch the scent article. It is all too common practice, however, to let family bring something to use.

Prior to LE having processed fingerprints wouldn't a chance exist that someone else had been driving the car? I don't know when the prints were processed in relation to the dog search.

 

[lilcatt]

Here's the first interesting thing. Why not use the car as your scent article? It's a common and effective practice. You use sterile gauze, swipe the seat and there you go. I don't know why they would have gone anywhere when they had the car for both the PLS and scent.
It is unwise to have anyone but trained personnel fetch the scent article. It is all too common practice, however, to let family bring something to use.

Does anyone know if the scent dogs hit on their scent by the car. I have not read anything about that if they did.

 

[alsmom]

I wish her body would be found quickly. I would love to see the tox screen on this one.

 

[ajfa]

IIRC it was stated in an article or by LE that the van was submerged up to the top of the seats, or possibly higher. Would that make a difference in using the car to get a scent?

This KIRO article says that it "appears the water went no higher than the top of the seats."

 

[slowpoke]

Here's the first interesting thing. Why not use the car as your scent article? It's a common and effective practice. You use sterile gauze, swipe the seat and there you go. I don't know why they would have gone anywhere when they had the car for both the PLS and scent.
It is unwise to have anyone but trained personnel fetch the scent article. It is all too common practice, however, to let family bring something to use.

Oh, that is interesting!

Is only a single scent article generally used so as not to confuse the dog(s) in cases?

That is, if, from what we read in articles it appears a scent article was obtained from her home to use in tracking. Can we then deduce that they probably did not also use the car as a scent article?

And thank you for taking our questions!

 

[SheWhoMustNotBeNamed]

IIRC it was stated in an article or by LE that the van was submerged up to the top of the seats, or possibly higher. Would that make a difference in using the car to get a scent?

This KIRO article says that it "appears the water went no higher than the top of the seats."

When I first heard the "top of the seats" statement, my brain automatically assumed it meant the portion of the seat that you sit on. But now I'm thinking that the "top of the seats" may mean the top of the seat back, near the head rest. If that were true, that would be a very similar water level to a "nearly submerged" van.

 

[justice77]

When I first heard the "top of the seats" statement, my brain automatically assumed it meant the portion of the seat that you sit on. But now I'm thinking that the "top of the seats" may mean the top of the seat back, near the head rest. If that were true, that would be a very similar water level to a "nearly submerged" van.

I always assumed to the top of the seat as well but you make a good point...could they actually have meant to the top of the seat back, if so that changes a lot for me.

 

[BeanE]

Hi BeanE and all,
I am here and hopefully I can help answer some questions. I've read a few pages back, and have a little overview of the case.
What I seem to have missed is--when were the dogs called in? Trying to get a full picture before I start commenting.

Oh Sarx, thank you so much for coming!

ETA: For people just tuning in, Sarx is our verified dog handler, and has kindly come to answer questions about the dogs who searched on the beach.

 

[BeanE]

Sarx, so whereas it's not the best practice to have a family member obtain the scent items, it's still common practice?

Some statements have said the van was submerged, so that may be why they couldn't or didn't use it?

What's the impact of having family-obtained scent items, which may not be ideal, when the area to be searched is a van in water and a beach? (If the type of area matters).

Thank you!

 

[PaulR]

Bottom line is this. If it is a medical disorder wherein her judgment is impaired then she could be anywhere in Olympia or one of the Islands. She doesn't have money or a cell phone or a car. She does have an overnight bag.

I think that is unlikely at this point. She made the papers and TV in the area, so people know what she looks like. All those islands are populated. She would have been sighted by now if alive.

 

[Knox]

Hi JessinOly, I read your posts and appreciated your local input. I'm not a local, but had a son stationed at Fort Lewis and visited him a couple of times, so have a general knowledge of the locale. Fellow Army Mom works in Oly in the Capitol Building.

This thread is moving quickly, please don't take offense if your post seems to not be acknowledged, as many are reading and not commenting, your input is needed and valuable.

 

[Lipin One]

Oh Sarx, thank you so much for coming!

ETA: For people just tuning in, Sarx is our verified dog handler, and has kindly come to answer questions about the dogs who searched on the beach.

I'm a cat handler.

When do I get to answer questions?

:dance:

p.s.
THANK YOU SARX!!!!!

 

[BeanE]

I'm a cat handler.

When do I get to answer questions?

:dance:

p.s.
THANK YOU SARX!!!!!

:floorlaugh:

 

[Alaska4959]

I wish her body would be found quickly. I would love to see the tox screen on this one.

If Shantina is dead and the body isn't found for a while (weeks or months even) would an autopsy/tox screen accurately show whether or how much she drank that night?

 

[Calliope]

Hi sarx, and thank you.

I'd asked some questions in response to BeanE's post a couple of pages back, and I have some more if you don't mind.

One of the articles posted cautioned against using shared items. The van belongs to RS, would that preclude them from it for scent? Also, the inside of the van was flooded (they had to wait for it to dry to obtain prints), would that be a reason why they wouldn't use the van for scent? Does it matter if the seats are cloth or leather/vinyl?

How long does scent last (on scene)? What are the effects of water, weather, etc.?

How can an item be contaminated other than smoke or contact? The protocol for obtaining items seems pretty detailed and specific (as posted above). In your experience, when family members are asked to retrieve a scent item, are they given this level of detailed instruction?

Can the shoe that was found beached and ID'd as Shantina's be used for scent?

 

[Lipin One]

If Shantina is dead and the body isn't found for a while (weeks or months even) would an autopsy/tox screen accurately show whether or how much she drank that night?

Good question. I am now also wondering if any medications she took would be detected after so long.

Personally, I just don't understand LE giving up on finding her, and leaving it to fate whether her body surfaces somewhere or not.

 

[RubyRed]

http://www.facebook.com/photos.php?...group.php?v=wall&ref=mf&gid=10150133110780096

The family is having a service for SS. They believe she is gone as well.

Yes, it appears that they believe Shantina is gone. Extremely sad.


http://www.facebook.com/group.php?v=wall&ref=mf&gid=10150133110780096

 

[SMK]

Good question. I am now also wondering if any medications she took would be detected after so long.

Personally, I just don't understand LE giving up on finding her, and leaving it to fate whether her body surfaces somewhere or not.

I had wondered the very exact thing, but a poster many pages back had told me of her friend's experience, with a son who drowned. The body was not found after a few days, and LE stopped searching. They had to hold a funeral with no body. Finally, they had private divers find the body. It is too bad Shantina's family cannot have this done, but I imagine it may be very costly.

 

[Calliope]

I had wondered the very exact thing, but a poster many pages back had told me of her friend's experience, with a son who drowned. The body was not found after a few days, and LE stopped searching. They had to hold a funeral with no body. Finally, they had private divers find the body. It is too bad Shantina's family cannot have this done, but I imagine it may be very costly.

Very, considering the vast amount of water they'd have to search

 

[PaulR]

I had wondered the very exact thing, but a poster many pages back had told me of her friend's experience, with a son who drowned. The body was not found after a few days, and LE stopped searching. They had to hold a funeral with no body. Finally, they had private divers find the body. It is too bad Shantina's family cannot have this done, but I imagine it may be very costly.

Yeah - that body was in Lake Washington, which is (while being pretty big) is still a lake. We saw how far the current carried Az's body. Who knows where hers is

This is basically impossible.