WA WA - Shantina Smiley, 29, & Azriel Carver, 8 (fnd deceased), Olympia, Mar 2010 - #6

[RubyRed]

OK, I see; they probably meant, "stopped at a nearby home" rather than "visited a friend nearby" , as you both say, then, Calliope and Elf69 and RubyRed as well...

I think it was just a mistake by the reporter.

 

[sorrell skye]

Hello All ~ I haven't posted in a few days, but have continued to follow the case.

The items were found 1/4 mile up the beach. I remember reading they were found on Sunday but not turned into LE until Wednesday. I'll try to find the article & post the link for reference purposes.

I posted awhile ago my thoughts on how odd it was that those items all "washed up" in the same area, since they were of different weights (heavy glass jug versus lightweight plastic water bottle, etc.) I'm glad to read that Deputy Chamberlain is now saying the same thing.

Also, at low tide, it's entirely possible to walk from where the van was found to where the items were found 1/4 mile away. According to the tide tables, Shantina & Azriel arrived @ the beach at low tide (between 10:30 and 11:00 p.m.) The tide wasn't at it's highest point until early Sunday morning - around 6:10 a.m. IIRC.

 

[sorrell skye]

http://www.theolympian.com/2010/03/18/1176112/clues-add-to-mystery.html

A woman walking on the beach with friends Sunday found a small shoe, an inhaler and a half-full bottle of white wine that had washed up about a quarter-mile east of where a missing woman's minivan had been found on the shore that morning.

On Wednesday, Thurston County sheriff’s investigators were trying to link those items to the missing woman, Shantina “Kat” Smiley, and her missing 8-year-old son, Azriel Carver.

 

[SMK]

"It was interesting that the items belonging to Shantina and Azriel found on the beach were just below the housing development where this house is located. The items were about 50-60 yards from the house, just down a steep stairway," Chamberlain said.

He found it peculiar, he said, that the items would all be found at the same location on the beach. Chamberlain said he does not believe the items were washed out to sea as originally believed because of the difference in weight and size of the items. He believes it is more likely Shantina and Azriel walked down the beach and that they had the items with them.



http://ww.examiner.com/x-34328-Seattle-Headlines-Examiner~y2010m4d5-Shantina-Smiley-Update-from-police-no-foul-play-suspected-Shantina-still-missingOoops, this entire post was irrelevant, as you are trying to show the 1/4 mile, not the "washed ashore"---sorry my mistake, and my bad : (

 

[sorrell skye]

I have always doubted the "sleeping in the van & got swept away by the tide" explanation. Especially since the back hatch was open. The hatch would've had to have been opened prior to the high tide, since the water pressure would have prevented it opening.

I posted before that I believe the hatch was opened at low tide, and that it was opened to retrieve items from the cargo area. But there's no way, IMO, that it was opened at high tide in an attempt to escape the van. The rear of the van was facing the water. The water level at high tide would have been higher in the rear of the van, due to the sloping beach.

 

[Jules71]

Also, at low tide, it's entirely possible to walk from where the van was found to where the items were found 1/4 mile away. According to the tide tables, Shantina & Azriel arrived @ the beach at low tide (between 10:30 and 11:00 p.m.) The tide wasn't at it's highest point until early Sunday morning - around 6:10 a.m. IIRC.

You are correct. I was thinking about this backward - thinking the tide would be in then, but it was out.

Thanks!

 

[Jules71]

Here is a map from the Thurston Co Assessors office. I marked in red the location of the van off Zangle, the location of the stairs up from the beach, and circled the Grimmer house. I could never figure out when I mapped their address why it just showed trees. It was an old map. This map is current as of 2009. The house at the corner of Island View Court NE and Island View Drive NE (with the circular driveway and tennis court - which I highlighted yellow) is for sale right now. I wonder if it is empty. The address is 8548 Island View Dr NE.


The close up shot is the Grimmer home. I highlighted in yellow what looks like their driveway. Notice, the garage is attached.

 

[Jules71]

This is the house for sale:
http://www.postlets.com/res/2450907

 

[houndstooth]

Thanks so much for the addition of these maps. One thing I noticed was the Bing map photo was taken at near high tide. And still there are lots of areas of beach that are able to be walked at the highest mean tide! I had the impression that it must have risen to mostly cover it at high tide. Not at all!! It's just like the beaches here. All that white sand is dry beach no matter the time or tide. The darker line of sand area are what will be covered by water at times. It was very telling. Those items were found in the sand of those areas. Also, I am struck again by the characterization that the van was abandoned. I agree with LE. Either she or both left the van. So why do they imagine they were swept out to sea? None of the evidence I have seen points to that at all. But I believe that "they" took their shoes off and walked in the water's edge and that is why the dogs had trouble tracking the scent.

 

[AmandaReckonwith]

Hi everyone, a case archive album is started for Shantina and Azriel.

Work in progress, but if you want to take a look, the link:
http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Shantina Smiley - Azriel Carver/

 

[Jules71]

Hi everyone, a case archive album is started for Shantina and Azriel.

Work in progress, but if you want to take a look, the link:
http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Shantina Smiley - Azriel Carver/

Thank you! And thank you for always doing this. It sure makes it real to see the pictures. My heart aches for Azriel.

 

[LCoastMom]

I have to tell you guys the sleuthing out details on this case has been amazing. :clap: :clap: :clap: To all of you...

Because of Robb originally saying they left the house at 4:30ish, I have developed my mind set from there, even if they left at 5 - how bad would traffic be on a Sat afternoon?

Anything about her overnight bag? Did we ever hear if SS took his charger with? She pulled off and made the 645 phone call, from a pay phone... That number should not be blocked, they should know where she called from. Last time I got a call from a pay phone caller ID said Pay Phone #012 - Name of City. Is this different now?

Did she not most likely stop and get food for Az - either before or after the 645 call? If so where? Did they go to a drive through? She had to have gotten gas at some point too.

Az walked into the Handy Pantry on his own, he didn't run to get a candy bar or chips or cookies he got himself a bottle of water.... I can't imagine an 8 yr old boy smiling and being pleasant if he has been hungry for 2 or more hours while in a mini market where there is food all around... In the background at the stop he is even playing in front of a camera or security mirror.

Uncut transaction at Handy Pantry wine & water
http://www.kirotv.com/video/22871326/index.html

They were on video for the first time at 754 at the Handy Pantry... To me she looks fine at this stop. If she was planning, from here to go to Castle Rock - is it possible the wine (that she bagged unlike the water bottle) was supposed to be a gift?

An "older couple" at the home told investigators that she asked for directions back to the highway. Smiley called her grandparents and the couple gave her son some pizza. Smiley rubbed her knee, they noticed. But nothing about smelling booze.

Who are the "Older Couple" I've seen a young adult with the same last name say "we might be the last to see her...." And the 45ish guy (DW) say she was upset about being lost. Are he and his wife the OLDER COUPLE? :waitasec:

"The only thing I have issue with is why was there a t-shirt tied around Azriel's head? That sounds like foul play to me, which, again, I pray isn't the case".

http://www.tdn.com/news/local/article_24f1e9d4-32db-11df-93cf-001cc4c03286.html?mode=comments

I have read here that he had a t-shirt over his head, I can even understand his shirt ending up over his head but TIED? or is this another rumor?

If she was at the beach at the 11pm time frame local pd gave.... why drive past all those houses? The 1AM pounding I've seen referred to the side of the house or garage door - not the front... dead ends because the homeowner didn't look further? or because she wasn't there? If you google map the street addy you see some houses - if you hit Real-estate you see just how many houses are there - desolate beach where the car was left but lots of peeps on the whole way to that beach.

“They said she just appeared nervous,” Mealy said, adding that the couple believed the anxiety was because she was lost, nothing more. This said by Lt. Mealey. Was he putting out "soft" news reports - claiming they don't know she bought wine while watching her at the register. :waitasec:

Family and friends are working on a benefit to be held in memory of Azriel on April 18, 2010 at the Macaroons in Cheektowaga. Investigators are continuing to follow up with leads, and will continue searching as long as necessary to locate Shantina.

 

[SMK]

I thought this was interesting as well, and I agree with it in some ways:

I am surprised that information about "complaints" that were filed against Smiley with Child Protective Services were public information, since these complaints did not result in any "charges" being filed against her. Even in a court of law, this information would probably not be allowed, as it would sway an opinion of a jury, the same as it has done to many readers of this article.http://www.tdn.com/news/local/article_24f1e9d4-32db-11df-93cf-001cc4c03286.html?mode=comments

 

[danisisa]

I still feel they need to check all of the empty vacation homes and land surrounding them....I have had this feeling for awhile.

 

[SMK]

I still feel they need to check all of the empty vacation homes and land surrounding them....I have had this feeling for awhile.

You may be right there. I hope LE has thought of this themselves, all things considered.....

 

[powayparent]

They were on video for the first time at 754 at the Handy Pantry... To me she looks fine at this stop. If she was planning, from here to go to Castle Rock - is it possible the wine (that she bagged unlike the water bottle) was supposed to be a gift?

In CA clerks always put alcohol in a paper or plastic bag. I thought it was a law but I could be mistaken.

I have read here that he had a t-shirt over his head, I can even understand his shirt ending up over his head but TIED? or is this another rumor?

I haven't seen that reported from a reputable news source.

 

[SMK]

I had seen it reported (cannot remember where) by mainstream media that the T shirt was around his head, but this would most likely be from the water and currents before being washed ashore.

 

[twzzlrgirl]

I guess, piecing it together, it doesn't make sense to me that both of them would have drowned, especially if they were out of the car. (Even the 'falling asleep in the car and being washed away' never really seemed plausible, either.) If they were out of the car, I'm trying to picture the scenarios in which they both would have drowned, and I simply cannot. Now, could she have been abducted and the boy drowned (intentionally or from being lost) -- that is possible. But, I fear that it went something like this: mom's life started to spiral out of control again and in order to "save" her son (in a warp, twisted way), she drowns him and then goes off to leave everyone behind. That is my biggest fear...and I pray I am wrong.

 

[SMK]

I guess, piecing it together, it doesn't make sense to me that both of them would have drowned, especially if they were out of the car. (Even the 'falling asleep in the car and being washed away' never really seemed plausible, either.) If they were out of the car, I'm trying to picture the scenarios in which they both would have drowned, and I simply cannot. Now, could she have been abducted and the boy drowned (intentionally or from being lost) -- that is possible. But, I fear that it went something like this: mom's life started to spiral out of control again and in order to "save" her son (in a warp, twisted way), she drowns him and then goes off to leave everyone behind. That is my biggest fear...and I pray I am wrong.

Well, certainly those kinds of scenarios have taken place , tragic as they are, so I cannot blame you for thinking it might be the case here as well. However, along with my other feelings, and the fact that she was applying for a full time position, and had other solid things going on as well, and her Grandma is so sure she could never leave her son or stop calling her, that she is all for holding a memorial service soon : No scent of her , nor any sighting, has been detected away from the beach.

 

[RubyRed]

I guess, piecing it together, it doesn't make sense to me that both of them would have drowned, especially if they were out of the car. (Even the 'falling asleep in the car and being washed away' never really seemed plausible, either.) If they were out of the car, I'm trying to picture the scenarios in which they both would have drowned, and I simply cannot. Now, could she have been abducted and the boy drowned (intentionally or from being lost) -- that is possible. But, I fear that it went something like this: mom's life started to spiral out of control again and in order to "save" her son (in a warp, twisted way), she drowns him and then goes off to leave everyone behind. That is my biggest fear...and I pray I am wrong.

bbm

Perhaps she tried to save Azriel. Perhaps he lost his breath when they stepped into the cold water, lost his balance and fell down. It was dark, no moon. I can see a mother not giving up, until she as well, succumbed to the elements.