WA WA - Shantina Smiley, 29, & Azriel Carver, 8 (fnd deceased), Olympia, Mar 2010 - #6

[Astraea]

Cool site.

Disclaimer: All values are estimates and should not be considered scientifically accurate by any measure of the imagination.

I just added "a box" and "my ex's big fat head" to the database, with my own made-up measurements (well not so much for his head. it is huge).

I know this is O/T but :rolling::rolling:

 

[PaulR]

Ok guys and gals... I left my house, forgot my tape measure... didn't want to go back in the house to get it because my kids would bug me and want to go with me - once I got there I realized I had a paper tape measure thingy they give you at the pediatricians office to measure your baby's head. Whooo hooo! :woohoo:

I don't think I have ever spent so much time in the dang store. And I felt REALLY weird measuring things - the store was packed! I think there were people following me... :waitasec:

1 liter dasani water (33.8 oz) = 10.5"
16.9 generic water bottle = 8"
Carlo Rossi 1.5 liter = 9.75"

I could not find a regular size dasani water, so I measured a 20 oz bottle of coke = 8.75"

Like I said before, my woman's 9W shoe is 11" long. It is kind of a clunky shoe tho.

Thanks.

FYI, I don't think it was a 20 oz bottle of Dasini after all. This site has a picture of the 20 oz, 500ml, and 1L bottles. The shape looks more like the 500ml to me.

http://www.kospn.com/?pg=products-dasani-water

 

[Calliope]

My thinking would be either the grandparents informed them or RS, but Idk, I don't remember reading how they discovered she had been there. It does seem to me that the Williams' offered that info themselves to LE, but I don't remember why I think that...

That's my impression too... I'd have to go slogging back through news articles to find out when that info came out, and right now my head is splitting, so maybe later

 

[Calliope]

Ok guys and gals... I left my house, forgot my tape measure... didn't want to go back in the house to get it because my kids would bug me and want to go with me - once I got there I realized I had a paper tape measure thingy they give you at the pediatricians office to measure your baby's head. Whooo hooo! :woohoo:

I don't think I have ever spent so much time in the dang store. And I felt REALLY weird measuring things - the store was packed! I think there were people following me... :waitasec:

1 liter dasani water (33.8 oz) = 10.5"
16.9 generic water bottle = 8"
Carlo Rossi 1.5 liter = 9.75"

I could not find a regular size dasani water, so I measured a 20 oz bottle of coke = 8.75"

Like I said before, my woman's 9W shoe is 11" long. It is kind of a clunky shoe tho.

I think I may have a 9 here somewhere. I'll see if I can find one (while looking for the spacer lol)

 

[Calliope]

Ok guys and gals... I left my house, forgot my tape measure... didn't want to go back in the house to get it because my kids would bug me and want to go with me - once I got there I realized I had a paper tape measure thingy they give you at the pediatricians office to measure your baby's head. Whooo hooo! :woohoo:

I don't think I have ever spent so much time in the dang store. And I felt REALLY weird measuring things - the store was packed! I think there were people following me... :waitasec:

BTW, I laughed so hard at this my neighbors mutt started barking :laugh:

 

[houndstooth]

The info came from a video interview with Detective Mealy. It's possible he made a mistake but it's not irresponsible reporting. I'll post the link when I find it again.

Good Grief! If this whole misinformation is due to LE not knowing the difference then that is not at all inspiring of confidence!

Of all the mysteries surrounding this case the correct size identification of the shoes should not be one of them. AY yay yay.

 

[spamelope]

My son (aka Sasquatch) wears a size 14 (mens) shoe. They need their own storage shed, never mind a shoe rack. A 13 isn't much smaller. I don't need to measure anything to know that the larger shoe is nowhere near a 13. I fancy myself an expert since I have tripped over them many, many times.
I just want to say too, that there are some people on here whose posts I take with a grain of salt, and some that if they state something is not a rumor, I feel comfortable in taking their word for it. Amanda is in the latter category for me. You can tell from her/his? thoughtful and meticulous albums for these cases that he/she compiles that they are a stickler for detail. Thank you for these, Amanda, and also for having the integrity for not naming your source.
And Hounds, your theories fill in the gaps I had. Thank you for thinking things out so well.
I also don't think the stairs necessarily were used by anyone that dreadful night. There are other places with a lot less sloping where they could have walked to the road.
I agree that the small shoe in question isn't the same as the one Az was wearing that night. I think that was placed on the beach to make it look as though he drowned that night even if his body was never found. I think we're supposed to think the same thing about Shantina, but that's not working out for me.

 

[Calliope]

My son (aka Sasquatch) wears a size 14 (mens) shoe. They need their own storage shed, never mind a shoe rack. A 13 isn't much smaller. I don't need to measure anything to know that the larger shoe is nowhere near a 13. I fancy myself an expert since I have tripped over them many, many times.
I just want to say too, that there are some people on here whose posts I take with a grain of salt, and some that if they state something is not a rumor, I feel comfortable in taking their word for it. Amanda is in the latter category for me. You can tell from her/his? thoughtful and meticulous albums for these cases that he/she compiles that they are a stickler for detail. Thank you for these, Amanda, and also for having the integrity for not naming your source.
And Hounds, your theories fill in the gaps I had. Thank you for thinking things out so well.
I also don't think the stairs necessarily were used by anyone that dreadful night. There are other places with a lot less sloping where they could have walked to the road.
I agree that the small shoe in question isn't the same as the one Az was wearing that night. I think that was placed on the beach to make it look as though he drowned that night even if his body was never found. I think we're supposed to think the same thing about Shantina, but that's not working out for me.

With all due respect, the only source who would know for certain what size the shoes are is LE. And they said 13 and 9.

But I can't reconcile what I"ve read from and about Shantina and her somehow killing Azriel. I DO think it's possible she was either cheating or planning to meet someone (perhaps just as 'friends' but knowing it still wouldn't look good) and that somehow things went real bad real fast. I don't care how bad her sense of direction may have been, you don't drive for nearly 4 hours around Olympia and NOT find a way back to the interstate. She was either looking for someone, avoiding someone, or as BeanE said, she had a 'brain event'. She wasn't "lost".

 

[spamelope]

Mea culpa

 

[butterfly1978]

I have come in and read this thread here and there, I know they found the boy along the river bank, but have they located the mom yet? Do they think she is in the river, or that she ran off? I have read the last few pages of this thread and I can't tell from what people are posting if she has been found or not, because I would hate for her to be dead in that water and the police just havent found her yet and people are making these accuasations that she killed her son and ran off, considering the fact that LE said he drowned, they didn't say he was murdered, as far as the wine goes she could have gotten lost and was tired decided to park the van, drank a little before going to sleep to relax after being stressed from getting lost and the water rose quickly and as they were escaping the van gotten swepted away.

 

[jessigirl]

It could be an extra pair of Az's shoes - not the ones he was wearing that night.

And just as I stated in the above post, RS only id'd the size 9 womens shoe as SS. If it was AZ shoe he woulkd have id'd it.

 

[yosande]

I have come in and read this thread here and there, I know they found the boy along the river bank, but have they located the mom yet? Do they think she is in the river, or that she ran off? I have read the last few pages of this thread and I can't tell from what people are posting if she has been found or not, because I would hate for her to be dead in that water and the police just havent found her yet and people are making these accuasations that she killed her son and ran off, considering the fact that LE said he drowned, they didn't say he was murdered, as far as the wine goes she could have gotten lost and was tired decided to park the van, drank a little before going to sleep to relax after being stressed from getting lost and the water rose quickly and as they were escaping the van gotten swepted away.

No, she has not been found yet.

There was a possible sighting from a comment, from a link earlier, at a marina restaurant, but no one knows if it was her.

The water temp info that was gathered gives an estimate that she should have surfaced by day 20, and it's now closer to 30, with no sign of her yet.

LE is still taking boats out now and then. Family and friends it has been said once to my knowledge are still out searching for her.

LE has said there is no evidence of foul play, but that it seems suspicious. They said she may or may not be in the water, and she may or may not be alive. They simply don't know. They are doing searches, but they are also digging into her cell phone records and bank accounts, and I'm sure her pc. HTH.

Theories abound as peeps gather as much info as possible, and mull it around in there head, and with each other. I'm sure no one hopes she harmed her son, but some consider it a possibility. There are many possibilities though.

I do believe that LE has ruled out that they were in the van sleeping and were caught unaware in the incoming tide. They have said that SS and AC abandoned the van, but they don't know when, and the back hatch makes it likely she opened it to get the overnight bag, and they walked away from the van.
I think this much has been determinded by LE as probable. Someone correct me if that isn't the case...

 

[BeanE]

Ok guys and gals... I left my house, forgot my tape measure... didn't want to go back in the house to get it because my kids would bug me and want to go with me - once I got there I realized I had a paper tape measure thingy they give you at the pediatricians office to measure your baby's head. Whooo hooo! :woohoo:

I don't think I have ever spent so much time in the dang store. And I felt REALLY weird measuring things - the store was packed! I think there were people following me... :waitasec:

1 liter dasani water (33.8 oz) = 10.5"
16.9 generic water bottle = 8"
Carlo Rossi 1.5 liter = 9.75"

I could not find a regular size dasani water, so I measured a 20 oz bottle of coke = 8.75"

Like I said before, my woman's 9W shoe is 11" long. It is kind of a clunky shoe tho.

Thank you so much for doing this, Jules. That's true sleuther dedication!

 

[SMK]

Ok guys and gals... I left my house, forgot my tape measure... didn't want to go back in the house to get it because my kids would bug me and want to go with me - once I got there I realized I had a paper tape measure thingy they give you at the pediatricians office to measure your baby's head. Whooo hooo! :woohoo:

I don't think I have ever spent so much time in the dang store. And I felt REALLY weird measuring things - the store was packed! I think there were people following me... :waitasec:

1 liter dasani water (33.8 oz) = 10.5"
16.9 generic water bottle = 8"
Carlo Rossi 1.5 liter = 9.75"

I could not find a regular size dasani water, so I measured a 20 oz bottle of coke = 8.75"

Like I said before, my woman's 9W shoe is 11" long. It is kind of a clunky shoe tho.

Thanks so much for going to all that trouble!!

 

[BeanE]

I have come in and read this thread here and there, I know they found the boy along the river bank, but have they located the mom yet? Do they think she is in the river, or that she ran off? I have read the last few pages of this thread and I can't tell from what people are posting if she has been found or not, because I would hate for her to be dead in that water and the police just havent found her yet and people are making these accuasations that she killed her son and ran off, considering the fact that LE said he drowned, they didn't say he was murdered, as far as the wine goes she could have gotten lost and was tired decided to park the van, drank a little before going to sleep to relax after being stressed from getting lost and the water rose quickly and as they were escaping the van gotten swepted away.

Hi, butterfly. Here's a recap of the facts of the current status of the case, based on LE statements.

LE's most recent statements are that there are no signs of foul play, and that there are no indications of a crime. (Multiple LE)

LE's most recent statement regarding what they believe happened to Shantina and Azriel is that they fell asleep in the van, were swept in the tide into the water, and drowned. (Lt Mealy)

LE spoke of Shantina and Azriel's disappearance as suspicious up until approximately March 16. I have not seen a statement from LE using that term since that time. If LE has issued a statement, a quote, since that timeframe using the term suspicious, I'm someone will link it in with the date.

Azriel's body was found, and his cause of death was ruled accidental drowning by the ME. Toxicology tests were sent out and to my knowledge are not back yet, however, to my knowledge, the ME did not issue a statement or certificate of COD pending the tox report.

Although they are still conducting sporadic, occasional searches of the water/beaches, Shantina has not yet been found.

Whereas Jim Chamberlain from the Sherriff's office was recently quoted as saying it was interesting that Shantina/Azriel's ball, inhaler, wine bottle, etc were found on the beach down stairs from house, and that he felt it was unlikely they would all float to that spot, he made the same statement that there is no evidence of foul play in the case, that Az's death still appears accidental, and that there is no indication that Shantina harmed him.

People across the net and here in WS continue, of course, to discuss and converse about the case, since Shantina hasn't yet been found, and the case remains open as to what exactly happened. There are several fascinating and confounding elements about it.

Below are Chamberlain's quotes. I happened to have them handy. If you'd like links to any of the other information, please let me know. I just didn't take the time to pull them. I haven't had my coffee yet but I'm more than happy to pull them if you'd like to peruse them for more details. Just poke me.

"It was interesting that the items belonging to Shantina and Azriel found on the beach were just below the housing development where this house is located. The items were about 50-60 yards from the house, just down a steep stairway," Chamberlain said.

"It is unlikely they would all float to that spot," Chamberlain said. "Perhaps they walked down the beach and became trapped by the incoming tide, or they tried climbing the steep stairs and slipped, getting trapped in the water."

"There is no evidence of foul play in this case," Chamberlain said. "Azriel's death still appears to have been accidental and there is no indication Shantina harmed her son or had any intent to harm her son."

 

[SMK]

OH, Looks like I posted this at the same time as BeanE's, which I will read right now.......Just thinking....The coroner did rule Azriel's death an "accidental drowning", and rulings are not overturned lightly. Just a question mark there....
IF the shoes were in fact Shantina's and a child's, and were staged there, someone wanted it to be known that both had drowned. Recall that the child had not yet been found at that point, and might never have surfaced....Just because SS has not surfaced, does not mean she is not in Puget Sound. This would point to a third party. If she surfaced, it surely would. Until then, it allows for her as the one who orchestrated/planted.

 

[BeanE]

And just as I stated in the above post, RS only id'd the size 9 womens shoe as SS. If it was AZ shoe he woulkd have id'd it.

DH knows my shoes far better than our son's, nevertheless, I sincerely doubt he'd be able to pick out either of ours from a lineup, with the exception of a pair of my red heels from our dancing days of yore. He'll never forget those, God bless him

 

[SMK]

I think what is problematic, is that the falling asleep, being surprised by ferocious high tides, was changed when Chief Deputy Chamberlain said he cannot see those items as being washed ashore, because of their close proximity to each other, but dropped or left there. It seems to negate Mealy's original theory. If not for the items, I would still think the falling asleep held true. Just thinking out loud...

 

[BeanE]

I think what is problematic, is that the falling asleep, being surprised by ferocious high tides, was changed when Chief Deputy Chamberlain said he cannot see those items as being washed ashore, because of their close proximity to each other, but dropped or left there. It seems to negate Mealy's original theory. If not for the items, I would still think the falling asleep held true. Just thinking out loud...

I know what you're saying, SMK. I'm just recapping what the latest is that LE has said. We have to have a factual, credible basis or premise to start from for our sleuthing. I was just listing the basics of what we have right now.

In this particular matter, some will see Chamberlain's statements as a change, some won't, and some will probably see it somewhere in between.

Let the sleuthin' continue!

 

[BeanE]

the only source who would know for certain what size the shoes are is LE.

That was worth saying again. Thanks, Calliope.