WA WA - Shantina Smiley, 29, & Azriel Carver, 8 (fnd deceased), Olympia, Mar 2010 - #7

[Calliope]

Very interesting comment by Candy. It would make sense to me since this is their belief why they did not attend her memorial. We need some answers.

IMO, what was strange about the comment was that it was in response to a damned good suggestion regarding a free service that could help find Shantina.

 

[LCoastMom]

The United States Constitution requires every state to accord "Full Faith and Credit" to the laws of its sister states. Thus, a common-law marriage that is validly contracted in a state where such marriages are legal will be valid even in states where such marriages cannot be contracted and may be contrary to public policy.

http://www.ncsl.org/default.aspx?tabid=4265

There are nine states that still have common law with legislature on the books, five with grandfather common law and a couple that will treat a couple as common law by their filing a joint tax return and their statements to others stating their intents to live as husband and wife. Washington is not on any of these lists.

 

[elf69]

Although not a direct quote, here is the most recent info from LE (April 17). They believe Shantina also drowned, as Azriel did, and will try to recover her body for the family.

There are no new leads in the investigation of Shantina’s disappearance, but she, too, is believed to have drowned, according to Detective Sgt. Cheryl Stines of the Thurston County Sheriff’s Office. The sheriff’s office will still try to recover Shantina’s body for the sake of the family, Stines said.


http://www.kitsapsun.com/news/2010/...membered-for-love-like-a-cloud/#ixzz0msi8YM9G

Most recent info from LE previous to this article indicated the same.

ETA: April 5 - Chief Criminal Deputy Jim Chamberlain
"It is unlikely they would all float to that spot," Chamberlain said. "Perhaps they walked down the beach and became trapped by the incoming tide, or they tried climbing the steep stairs and slipped, getting trapped in the water."

BBM -- If they did climb the stairs and slip, would there be evidence of that? What about the scent dogs? Were they ever taken to the stairs? If so, was their scent captured?

 

[LCoastMom]

I wonder if the LE also believes this and are not saying anything?

:cry: :cry: I believe the comment goes a long way to explaining the behavior of some of SS's extended family. But her GMother has said SS would not do this to the family and she believes something happened on the beach that both ended up in the water.

This is paraphrased from comments attributed to SS's Gmother when talking about the 4/17 memorial being the right thing to do...

 

[Jules71]

So the step parents believe she may still be out there somewhere and are hoping for her return.

GP's believe something happened on the beach and they both ended up in the water, thus holding the memorial service.

RS believes something doesn't quite smell right about the whole thing and commented early on something about for all they know, she could be in someone's basement.

And LE says they believe Shantina also drowned, as Azriel did.

So to summarize:
LE and GP's believe she is deceased.
RS and Step's believe she may still be out there alive.

The people who appear to be the closest to her are her GP's and RS. So the opinion is split down the middle with the closest people to Kat.

Elf69,
It is always possible LE knows more than they are letting the public know. It is also possible LE may say one thing to the public, but believe something entirely different happened. One reason for this could be to not jeopardize a possible lead. I think it's possible this is the case.

MOO!

 

[Jules71]

BBM -- If they did climb the stairs and slip, would there be evidence of that? What about the scent dogs? Were they ever taken to the stairs? If so, was their scent captured?

Very good question and one I don't think we know the answer to. Does anyone know where her step sister was referring to when she said the dogs lost the scent?

 

[Salem]

Hey Everyone - just a reminder to be careful using the full names of innocent folks here. I know you are researching for TES involvement, but we still need to use initials and not full names.

Thanks for all your hard work!

Salem

 

[LCoastMom]

Some info on the time line of the items "found on shore" - and about the wine...

snipped:

The shoe that washed up on shore Sunday was small enough that it might fit a child, said Cora Tunbert, who found the items while walking with friends near her Island View Court home. She also found a baseball and an orange rubber ball, she said.

“There’s always stuff on the beach,” Tunberg said. “(But) it was an unusually large amount of stuff on the beach.”

She said she picked up the items and was ready to throw them away Tuesday, but her husband called the sheriff’s office, thinking they might be related to Smiley and Azriel’s disappearance. Investigators arrived at the Tunbergs’ home Wednesday morning to pick up the items, she said.

Thurston County Sheriff’s Lt. Chris Mealy confirmed Wednesday that Smiley had bought a bottle of wine at Handy Pantry in west Olympia on Saturday night, before she went missing. Sheriff’s Sgt. Cheryl Stines confirmed that Azriel uses an inhaler.

Read more: http://www.thenewstribune.com/2010/03/18/1113853/clues-add-to-mystery-of-missing.html#ixzz0mdLG8J00

This shoe comment to me is a great big HUH?? If the shoe is a 13 kids and a 9W womens - they look nothing like a 9W womens and mens 13. (The photo I attached in the last thread is a womens 9 similar in shape to sb's - it is almost 11" long - the level/12"ruler in the same photo for comparison.)



Here is a link to Az in his cub scout uniform wearing dark shoes.

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/ind...ID=243140172&albumID=1190425&imageID=13885349

The thing is...
If she panicked and ran, would she have a friend who'd hide her?

She has evidently had a less than easy life but, she grew up in this area - and there seems to be a goodly number of "kids" she grew up with who still live in the "general area" if you include a hundred miles in any direction to be "the area" she seems to be a nice, good, caring person who I would think had a lot of friends (maybe not all close friends - but she even remained "friends" with her ex!)

I can't imagine the circumstances that would include Az's death that sounds like something a friend would do to help someone. But prior to Az turning up on the beach, I can imagine certain things happening - where a friend could step up and tryto help out - someone seeking refuge- for a few days. It's just all wonky knowing that for some reason Az didn't leave the beach and his mom has (dead or alive) disappeared. That obviously no longer sounds like friendly help...

Amanda, thank you I saw you posted a link to the curb bump a couple pages back - I can't open it. (mother board trouble) is it the same view as the link above? This (above) was the HP video that doesn't show the pumps - FOX doctored it showing inside HP - then added the well lit pumps at the Merc - making it appear to be from the same stop.

 

[Calliope]

So the step parents believe she may still be out there somewhere and are hoping for her return.

GP's believe something happened on the beach and they both ended up in the water, thus holding the memorial service.

RS believes something doesn't quite smell right about the whole thing and commented early on something about for all they know, she could be in someone's basement.

And LE says they believe Shantina also drowned, as Azriel did.

So to summarize:
LE and GP's believe she is deceased.
RS and Step's believe she may still be out there alive.

The people who appear to be the closest to her are her GP's and RS. So the opinion is split down the middle with the closest people to Kat.

Elf69,
It is always possible LE knows more than they are letting the public know. It is also possible LE may say one thing to the public, but believe something entirely different happened. One reason for this could be to not jeopardize a possible lead. I think it's possible this is the case.

MOO!

I think RS believes she's dead but hopes she's alive. Less than two weeks after her disappearance, he posted on the FB page a notice of her memorial service; that was posted around the time of Azriel's service IIRC. It was originally scheduled to be during the first week (first weekend?) of April, but that post was deleted and another on 3/29 announced the service to be 4/17. For him to plan a service that early on tells me that once Azriel was found he believed she was dead too.

 

[Calliope]

This shoe comment to me is a great big HUH?? If the shoe is a 13 kids and a 9W womens - they look nothing like a 9W womens and mens 13. (The photo I attached in the last thread is a womens 9 similar in shape to sb's - it is almost 11" long - the level/12"ruler in the same photo for comparison.)

there has been more than one link here with LE confirming (including LE stating directly in a TV interview) that the smaller shoe was ID'd as Shantina's.

Regarding the photo of the items found, that spacer is about 6 inches long. A boy's size 13 shoe would NOT be that much longer than the spacer.

 

[BeanE]

I think RS believes she's dead but hopes she's alive. Less than two weeks after her disappearance, he posted on the FB page a notice of her memorial service; that was posted around the time of Azriel's service IIRC. It was originally scheduled to be during the first week (first weekend?) of April, but that post was deleted and another on 3/29 announced the service to be 4/17. For him to plan a service that early on tells me that once Azriel was found he believed she was dead too.

It must be hell for families and loved ones of the missing - the not knowing, the emotional onslaught of the trauma, the desperation to find them, followed by time stretching on and on vacillating between hope and fear, hope and despair. They're trapped in a Limbo of pain. There are no good answers to the questions. There are no guidebooks, and there's been no preparation in life, for the difficult decisions they have to make.

I imagine RS vacillates among fearing she's dead, thinking she's dead, believing she's dead, and denying she's dead, and I imagine all those who knew and cared about Shantina have gone and continue to go through the same thing in varying degrees. I feel very much for all of them.

 

[AmandaReckonwith]

LCoast Mom,
There were 2 curb bumps by Shantina that night caught on tape.

First one on tape was at Handy Pantry. She hit the front-of-store sidewalk curb with the left front tire.
http://www.woodtv.com/dpps/news/nat...hington-state-mom-and-son-resumes-jgr_3279576

OK... I am editing because I might be fos or mixed up. But I thought it was Gull Harbor Merc where she hit the right front tire on the curb.
Then I found this vid that I'd linked upthread. Reporter says it is Handy Pantry. So maybe she was just all messed up there hitting 2 different curbs 2 differnt times, 1 left wheel, 1 right wheel.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101661&page=16&dr_log=-1&linkout=http%3A//s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Shantina%2520Smiley%2520-%2520Azriel%2520Carver/%3Faction%3Dview%26current%3D005-2.flv

 

[SMK]

It must be hell for families and loved ones of the missing - the not knowing, the emotional onslaught of the trauma, the desperation to find them, followed by time stretching on and on vacillating between hope and fear, hope and despair. They're trapped in a Limbo of pain. There are no good answers to the questions. There are no guidebooks, and there's been no preparation in life, for the difficult decisions they have to make.

I imagine RS vacillates among fearing she's dead, thinking she's dead, believing she's dead, and denying she's dead, and I imagine all those who knew and cared about Shantina have gone and continue to go through the same thing in varying degrees. I feel very much for all of them.

Yes, I know from experience that denial is part of the grieving process, even when a person dies of a terminal illness (you think they will get better, even though doctors say unequivocally that there is no further hope). To grieve without a body or a clear cut scenario would cause confusion in the strongest of us. It is natural to hope that she simply is "out there". Very sad.

 

[Jules71]

I think RS believes she's dead but hopes she's alive. Less than two weeks after her disappearance, he posted on the FB page a notice of her memorial service; that was posted around the time of Azriel's service IIRC. It was originally scheduled to be during the first week (first weekend?) of April, but that post was deleted and another on 3/29 announced the service to be 4/17. For him to plan a service that early on tells me that once Azriel was found he believed she was dead too.

BBM. But did he plan the memorial, or did her grandparents?

ETA: I think her gp's did, as well as Azriel's. But I know what you are saying - I'm sure he must go back and forth on thinking she is deceased, hoping she is alive, etc.

 

[Jules71]

Not sure if you all have seen this or not - trying to think of women in their 30's missing in WA:

snipped: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/theblotter/2011770950_victim_in_sleeping_bad_died_fr.html

"Woman found in sleeping bag died from homicidal violence

Posted by John de Leon

Everett police say the person whose body was found in a sleeping bag died from homicidal violence.

The name has not been released, but police say the victim was a white woman in her mid-30s whose last known address was in Seattle. The victim's name cause and manner of death will be released by the Snohomish County Medical Examiner's Officer at a later time, police said.

The victim has no local criminal history."

 

[SMK]

Not sure if you all have seen this or not - trying to think of women in their 30's missing in WA:

snipped: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/theblotter/2011770950_victim_in_sleeping_bad_died_fr.html

"Woman found in sleeping bag died from homicidal violence

Posted by John de Leon

Everett police say the person whose body was found in a sleeping bag died from homicidal violence.

The name has not been released, but police say the victim was a white woman in her mid-30s whose last known address was in Seattle. The victim's name cause and manner of death will be released by the Snohomish County Medical Examiner's Officer at a later time, police said.

The victim has no local criminal history."

ah, I had wondered about this , this morning. It may be that 35 year old woman who went missing after Shantina, in WA. Sad, indeed.

 

[SMK]

Removed post. smk

 

[BeanE]

Please return to topic - Shantina and Azriel's case.

Thanks,
BeanE

 

[Calliope]

It must be hell for families and loved ones of the missing - the not knowing, the emotional onslaught of the trauma, the desperation to find them, followed by time stretching on and on vacillating between hope and fear, hope and despair. They're trapped in a Limbo of pain. There are no good answers to the questions. There are no guidebooks, and there's been no preparation in life, for the difficult decisions they have to make.

I imagine RS vacillates among fearing she's dead, thinking she's dead, believing she's dead, and denying she's dead, and I imagine all those who knew and cared about Shantina have gone and continue to go through the same thing in varying degrees. I feel very much for all of them.

I imagine having to be strong for the children's sake makes it even harder.

I recall an interview where he said his daughter was distraught because LE had called off the search (this was before the items were found). He said he told her that they could only turn over the same rocks just so many times (something to that effect). That struck me as something he'd say because he knew logically it was true, even if he didn't believe (or want to believe) what he was saying. But he had to be able to calm her and help her understand, all the while having the same feelings himself.

Did that make sense??

 

[Calliope]

BBM. But did he plan the memorial, or did her grandparents?

ETA: I think her gp's did, as well as Azriel's. But I know what you are saying - I'm sure he must go back and forth on thinking she is deceased, hoping she is alive, etc.

That wasn't clear; he was the one to announce it. I would suspect that it was a joint effort on both parts, judging from the photos. JMO, of course.