WA WA - Shantina Smiley, 29, & Azriel Carver, 8 (fnd deceased), Olympia, Mar 2010 - #7

[Jules71]

Chamberlain said on camera that they did not know if Shantina bought wine. But clearly she did.

It was also stated the wine was not found on the receipt. I wonder if she payed for it separately - cash or debit card. Who knows.

 

[Jules71]

Some info on the time line of the items "found on shore" - and about the wine...

snipped:

The shoe that washed up on shore Sunday was small enough that it might fit a child, said Cora Tunbert, who found the items while walking with friends near her Island View Court home. She also found a baseball and an orange rubber ball, she said.

“There’s always stuff on the beach,” Tunberg said. “(But) it was an unusually large amount of stuff on the beach.”

She said she picked up the items and was ready to throw them away Tuesday, but her husband called the sheriff’s office, thinking they might be related to Smiley and Azriel’s disappearance. Investigators arrived at the Tunbergs’ home Wednesday morning to pick up the items, she said.

Thurston County Sheriff’s Lt. Chris Mealy confirmed Wednesday that Smiley had bought a bottle of wine at Handy Pantry in west Olympia on Saturday night, before she went missing. Sheriff’s Sgt. Cheryl Stines confirmed that Azriel uses an inhaler.

Read more: http://www.thenewstribune.com/2010/03/18/1113853/clues-add-to-mystery-of-missing.html#ixzz0mdLG8J00

 

[Calliope]

I'd like to know if LE attempted to get any DNA or prints off the man's shoe (finger or toe prints).

 

[Calliope]

It was also stated the wine was not found on the receipt. I wonder if she payed for it separately - cash or debit card. Who knows.

Seems there'd still be a receipt. Unless she did pay separately with cash and they didn't know until the video surfaced that she was the one who purchased it. Did the police confirm that she actually carried the wine out of the store?

 

[Calliope]

Unless you have a link to a credible source from a scientist with the appropriate credentials stating that the items did not wash up on the shore, referring to them as such is misleading and misinformation. Please don't do so.

What I've seen is a blog post by a blogger in which the blogger claims that a member of LE said he does not believe the items were washed out to sea. A whisper-down-the-lane claim from a blogger on a blog that a member of LE - not a scientist with the appropriate credentials - holds a certain belief.

The blog post does contain two direct quotes from the member of LE - again, not a scientist with the appropriate credentials upon whose opinion we can rely. Here are the quotes:

"It was interesting that the items belonging to Shantina and Azriel found on the beach were just below the housing development where this house is located. The items were about 50-60 yards from the house, just down a steep stairway," Chamberlain said.

"It is unlikely they would all float to that spot," Chamberlain said.


The information in the blog post, including Chamberlain's posts, is simply not enough that the items can be referred to as "items that didn't wash up on the shore".

We must be sure that information we post does not mislead or misinform members and guests of Websleuths.

Thank you -
BeanE

True, but it's clear from the interview Chief Deputy Chamberlain [Chief Criminal Deputy
Chief Chamberlain is a 32 year veteran of the Thurston County Sheriff’s Office. He started as a special deputy in 1975. He has served in nearly every operational capacity that the Sheriff’s Office has had. As a Deputy Sheriff he served in the Jail, Patrol, Detectives and as a Hostage Negotiator. As a Sergeant he served in Patrol, Detectives, Special Enforcement, K-9, and S.W.A.T. During this time he was also the president of the Deputy Sheriff’s Association. He was promoted to Lieutenant in Patrol in 1991 and to Captain in 1994. His Captain assignments included Patrol, Narcotics, Homeland Security and Detectives. Sheriff Kimball promoted Jim to Chief Criminal Deputy on Jan. 1, 2007. He is in charge of the Operations Bureau which consists of Patrol, Detectives, and various specialty units such as S.W.A.T., Marine Services, Traffic, and Hostage Negotiations. This Bureau has 84 personnel and a 10 million dollar budget] didn't believe that all those items floated together to that spot (per his quote). He may not be a "scientist", but he certainly has the credentials to make that statement, and IMO I don't think he'd make such a statement off the cuff. That's why I think what he said is significant, and changed the scenario from one of them being 'washed out of the van' to actually having left the van and been on the beach. I don't understand why you think we can't rely on what he says... that's a bit confusing to me.

 

[SMK]

True, but it's clear from the interview Chief Deputy Chamberlain [Chief Criminal Deputy
Chief Chamberlain is a 32 year veteran of the Thurston County Sheriff’s Office. He started as a special deputy in 1975. He has served in nearly every operational capacity that the Sheriff’s Office has had. As a Deputy Sheriff he served in the Jail, Patrol, Detectives and as a Hostage Negotiator. As a Sergeant he served in Patrol, Detectives, Special Enforcement, K-9, and S.W.A.T. During this time he was also the president of the Deputy Sheriff’s Association. He was promoted to Lieutenant in Patrol in 1991 and to Captain in 1994. His Captain assignments included Patrol, Narcotics, Homeland Security and Detectives. Sheriff Kimball promoted Jim to Chief Criminal Deputy on Jan. 1, 2007. He is in charge of the Operations Bureau which consists of Patrol, Detectives, and various specialty units such as S.W.A.T., Marine Services, Traffic, and Hostage Negotiations. This Bureau has 84 personnel and a 10 million dollar budget] didn't believe that all those items floated together to that spot (per his quote). He may not be a "scientist", but he certainly has the credentials to make that statement, and IMO I don't think he'd make such a statement off the cuff. That's why I think what he said is significant, and changed the scenario from one of them being 'washed out of the van' to actually having left the van and been on the beach. I don't understand why you think we can't rely on what he says... that's a bit confusing to me.

Thank you for this, as I knew Chamberlain was a man of vast experience and expertise, and not in a position to speak rashly or without being very guarded as to whom he would grant an interview, or what he would say. He likely knew the Examiner in Seattle is widely consulted regarding the Smiley case. (in terms of online sources) That is all I had attempted to do this a.m., was to honor his professionalism and judgement. To me, this is very important, because some things should be ignored, while others must keenly be given their due. I also am confused as to why his statement is not to be taken as factual, as he does indeed have forensic training and judgement. Of course, it is important to quote him precisely, in terms of his qualifying his statements with, "I think, I find", etc...

 

[RubyRed]

I hope some answers come for the family soon. The wait must be agonizing.

 

[PaulR]

“There’s always stuff on the beach,” Tunberg said. “(But) it was an unusually large amount of stuff on the beach.”

Which means some of it may not have been SS's.

 

[elf69]

It was also stated the wine was not found on the receipt. I wonder if she payed for it separately - cash or debit card. Who knows.

There is a video were she is coming out of the store where she bought the wine and she does something in the front passenger side that shows her either throwing a piece of paper or dropping a piece of paper on the ground -- it may be the receipt. I can't seem to find the video but I believe I linked it on one of threads.

I have been out of the loop for the last couple of weeks as I was in a tropical paradise.

 

[elf69]

Also, having been on vacation and driving a different truck for over a week and coming home to my own much larger truck, I have repeatedly ran over curbs while turning -- 3 times in a matter of a half hour and stone cold sober. Not that it means anything, but if she was unfamiliar with the van, her running over the curb could be attributed to that and not to being drunk, etc. Of course, it could also be attributed to being drunk, etc. also. JMO

 

[Calliope]

I hope some answers come for the family soon. The wait must be agonizing.

I'm beginning to believe she's not going to surface if in the water, or be found on land if not.

 

[Calliope]

There is a video were she is coming out of the store where she bought the wine and she does something in the front passenger side that shows her either throwing a piece of paper or dropping a piece of paper on the ground -- it may be the receipt. I can't seem to find the video but I believe I linked it on one of threads.

I have been out of the loop for the last couple of weeks as I was in a tropical paradise.

aha. thanks. I wonder if the store receipts show the wine purchase?

 

[SMK]

I'm beginning to believe she's not going to surface if in the water, or be found on land if not.

I know, I worry about this, too. :shakehead: But keep in mind there have been cases where it happens after some months.....I still believe if she is found, it may raise new questions. *fingers crossed*

 

[elf69]

Today is the opening day of boating season -- lets pray Shantina is found!

 

[BeanE]

SMK and Calliope, in regards your posts above,
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - WA WA-Shantina Smiley, 29, Msg & Azriel Carver, 8, found deceased, #7
and Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - WA WA-Shantina Smiley, 29, Msg & Azriel Carver, 8, found deceased, #7,
it all boils down simply to stating opinion as opinion.

We don't know how the items got to where they were found. We have no facts about that. We have opinions - from various members of LE, and our own opinions.

It's fine for each of us to have whatever opinion we hold of how the items got to the shore - washed up, placed, or other manner (so long as we can reasonably support those opinions of course).

We can believe in our own or another's opinion as strongly as we are compelled to, however we are compelled to.

And nobody has to agree with anyone else's opinion. That's one of the great things I personally love about WS.

What we do need to do is to state our opinions as opinions, and refer to the opinions of others as opinions. We just can't state opinion as fact. It would cause confusion, if not bedlam, and avert the free flow of discussion.

It's especially important for members and guests who are new to the case to be able to readily distinguish between fact and opinion, so that they can continue to rely on Websleuths, as many do, as a resource for reliable, credible information on crime cases. It's what people specifically come to Websleuths for.

If you have any other questions or concerns, please PM me, or any other mod or admin, as requested.

Thanks,
BeanE

 

[SMK]

SMK and Calliope, in regards your posts above,
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - WA WA-Shantina Smiley, 29, Msg & Azriel Carver, 8, found deceased, #7
and Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - WA WA-Shantina Smiley, 29, Msg & Azriel Carver, 8, found deceased, #7,
it all boils down simply to stating opinion as opinion.

We don't know how the items got to where they were found. We have no facts about that. We have opinions - from various members of LE, and our own opinions.

It's fine for each of us to have whatever opinion we hold of how the items got to the shore - washed up, placed, or other manner (so long as we can reasonably support those opinions of course).

We can believe in our own or another's opinion as strongly as we are compelled to, however we are compelled to.

And nobody has to agree with anyone else's opinion. That's one of the great things I personally love about WS.

What we do need to do is to state our opinions as opinions, and refer to the opinions of others as opinions. We just can't state opinion as fact. It would cause confusion, if not bedlam, and avert the free flow of discussion.

It's especially important for members and guests who are new to the case to be able to readily distinguish between fact and opinion, so that they can continue to rely on Websleuths, as many do, as a resource for reliable, credible information on crime cases. It's what people specifically come to Websleuths for.

If you have any other questions or concerns, please PM me, or any other mod or admin, as requested.

Thanks,
BeanE

Understood, and agreed to. While I do believe Chief Deputy Chamberlain has much expertise and experience, I would agree, he is opining when he speaks of the items, abeit it is a very educated opinion. That is why I state that he does indeed qualify with "I think, I believe, I find it peculiar" rather than saying, "I know this for a fact". Thanks ...

 

[SMK]

Today is the opening day of boating season -- lets pray Shantina is found!

Yes. This is a hope, isn't it? *fingers crossed* and best prayers out for SS.

 

[SMK]

I wonder if this sort of thing could be used to find Shantina? How expensive it is, how appropriate to her case? Just wondering....

LAKE CUMBERLAND - After hours of driving the more than 2,000 miles to get here, Gene and Sandy Ralston got up Monday, loaded and set up special equipment, and within 6 minutes of beginning their search had found the body of Shane Pierce. Dozens of searchers had unsuccessfully hunted for the body of the 37-year-old Indiana man on numerous occasions since Pierce fell out of his boat at high speed on September 8.

Their near-instant success in locating the body wasn't a matter of luck; it was the use of new sonar technology. The Ralstons are biologists and work as environmental consultants, but they serve their fellow man by recovering drowning victims all around the country. For nothing more than their out-of-pocket expenses, this couple drove from Idaho over the weekend to find Pierce.

Roger Pierce, Shane's father, had learned of the couple from a friend who had found them through the internet, and for Roger it was something of a prayer answered. "What did I want for Christmas?" Roger asked. "I wanted to find my dead son." He said the thought of his son lying there somewhere on the cold bottom of the lake was the first thing in his mind every time he woke up. "Friday was his birthday," the bereaved father added.

The Ralstons, of Idaho Mountain Search and Rescue, came in at the Pierces' request to pick up the search for their son. Kentucky Fish & Wildlife Officer Tony Wright took them to the two spots in the lake where he found the boat and where witnesses said they saw Pierce flip out of the side of his boat the day before this year's Lake Cumberland Poker Run. Wright had recorded the GPS coordinates of the location during the first attempts to find him.
http://gralston1.home.mindspring.com/lakecumberland.html

 

[BeanE]

I wonder if this sort of thing could be used to find Shantina? How expensive it is, how appropriate to her case? Just wondering....

LAKE CUMBERLAND - After hours of driving the more than 2,000 miles to get here, Gene and Sandy Ralston got up Monday, loaded and set up special equipment, and within 6 minutes of beginning their search had found the body of Shane Pierce. Dozens of searchers had unsuccessfully hunted for the body of the 37-year-old Indiana man on numerous occasions since Pierce fell out of his boat at high speed on September 8.

Their near-instant success in locating the body wasn't a matter of luck; it was the use of new sonar technology. The Ralstons are biologists and work as environmental consultants, but they serve their fellow man by recovering drowning victims all around the country. For nothing more than their out-of-pocket expenses, this couple drove from Idaho over the weekend to find Pierce.

Roger Pierce, Shane's father, had learned of the couple from a friend who had found them through the internet, and for Roger it was something of a prayer answered. "What did I want for Christmas?" Roger asked. "I wanted to find my dead son." He said the thought of his son lying there somewhere on the cold bottom of the lake was the first thing in his mind every time he woke up. "Friday was his birthday," the bereaved father added.

The Ralstons, of Idaho Mountain Search and Rescue, came in at the Pierces' request to pick up the search for their son. Kentucky Fish & Wildlife Officer Tony Wright took them to the two spots in the lake where he found the boat and where witnesses said they saw Pierce flip out of the side of his boat the day before this year's Lake Cumberland Poker Run. Wright had recorded the GPS coordinates of the location during the first attempts to find him.
http://gralston1.home.mindspring.com/lakecumberland.html

Tim Miller from TES has one of those sonar devices if I'm not mistaken. TES's services are free of charge to families of the missing. A family member must call TES and request their services. TES then coordinates with LE and assesses the case and determines what they can do to help recover the missing person.

I think TES would be a good option for this case.

 

[SMK]

Tim Miller from TES has one of those sonar devices if I'm not mistaken. TES's services are free of charge to families of the missing. A family member must call TES and request their services. TES then coordinates with LE and assesses the case and determines what they can do to help recover the missing person.

I think TES would be a good option for this case.

That is great to know. I hope that Robb and his daughter, and other family members, will see this and take action. It might help bring them a bit of closure, which I know would not negate their grief, but might help just a little. Thanks for the info.