WA WA - Sky Metalwala, 2, Bellevue, 6 Nov 2011 - #15

Status
Not open for further replies.
  • #281
Highly doubtful. For one thing, her car was NOT out of gas. LE says there was
two gallons left. That is quite a bit of gas.
Certainly no reason to pull over and leave a sick toddler alone.

And there was nothing wrong with the car because it started right up. So she lied about a major portion of her story.

And nobody ever saw a child in that parked car. And she walked past dozens of homes on the way to the phone booth. Why do that if you have a sick baby in your car, alone?

re bold - just thinking out loud...

I have never had a car with this light up "gas tank" if the tank is going empty before, until I bought my 1997 Ford Taurus. First time it went on - I panicked!! :crazy: thinking I need to find a gas station quick!! it wasn't until my Huz told me it still had about 2 gallons left and I can drive another 50 miles or so... so maybe she never had a car where this "gas tank" lights up when low on fuel...

not that I believe that Sky was abducted... just an explanation of 'why' she thought she was out of gas!! :seeya:
 
  • #282
With Julisa OCD , I've been thinking Sky HAS to be somewhere clean. I can't imagine her throwing him in the garbage at all...if he has passed.

I think she could have put him anywhere, really. OCD has very specific rules that are individualized and the rules don't have to make sense with one another. In example, JB might consider my garbage to be clean (it is, lol) while hers is considered dirty. Just because JB had a fear of dust and germs at home doesn't mean she had them in public and doesn't mean it applied to a child she never bonded with.

Of course, it COULD mean that her OCD behaviors extended into the public sphere, but it also could not. Even if they did extend into the public sphere, she may have been able to tolerate the increase in anxiety long enough to do what she needed to save her butt (like throwing Sky in a dumpster and then taking many, many showers). In other words, OCD anxieties, thoughts, and behaviors rarely follow a linear line and rarely make some kind of logical sense. That's one of the reasons they're so disturbing to the individual suffering from them.

ETA: An earlier poster suggested that JB may have a hard time not "checking" on Sky. Just wanted to add that this also may or may not be the case. JB's OCD may not present as "checking" behaviors -- we haven't read anything, to my knowledge, about her having checking behaviors. And, again, even if she did, it doesn't necessarily mean she would check on Sky.
 
  • #283
  • #284
BBM

- but I didn't state I thought that Julia had him abducted.

I might be stepping out on a limb here, but I've worked with a lot of men from other cultures very different from what is traditional here in the US. I'd find it very believable (if strategically possible) that someone having a child resembling baby SKY used a passport to transport him "somewhere safe". In a lot of cultures - you see it daily on the national news - women are second-class citizens, and mentally ill women are even lower. And their families are much more than the mother/father/children unit - it's far-reaching and their sense of community is very strong.

Sometimes things aren't always what they seem. I think a lot of assumptions are being made about life in the home based on what has been released to the public along with one person's side of the story. Not pointing any fingers, just saying that it's usually a combination of both sides of the story.

:fence: I'm still sitting on the fence myself, just tossing around a theory.

yes JB is suffering from a mental illness, and Sky has been abducted, but when, where and by whom is up for grabs in my book.

JMHO

I like batting around different theories and I mulled this one over, trying to see if it could work. But, if JB secreted away Sky, then why not M -- whom she clearly favored? And, if SM secreted away Sky (or anyone else other than JB did), then how did he get his hands on the boy in the few, random minutes JB was away from her car before an eyewitness stopped by and saw no child in the car -- and how did SM do this without anyone seeing it happen on a busy road? Also, I think SM had immense compassion for JB's mental illness and did not consider her a second class citizen, from what we can tell with public documents. I think it broke his heart to divorce her and his motives were pure and simply to protect their children. Just my opinion.
 
  • #285
  • #286
Most moms who kill toddlers or babies dispose of their bodies in water. That would fit Julia's OCD, do you think?



The episode ended with the police deciding not to press charges for their false statements to police. They felt they had been through enough. (Earlier, the couple had lied, each taking the blame, saying they had accidentally killed the child in different ways. But the ME found the child had died of SIDS).

Search & Seek -- WELCOME!!!! I agree, that a body of water would be in line with where many mothers dispose of their children and JB may have gone this route as well. Disposal is also typically done within a 5 to 10-mile radius of the mother's home (and we've wondered on this site which JB most considered her home to be -- the condo or the house she and SM had to give up?). We've also speculated that she may have disposed nearer to where SM lives out of spite, but I, personally, find this to be less likely. I'm guessing body of water, wooded area, or dumpster within 5-10 miles of JB's apartment (I'm guessing she considers home to be her apartment, btw. But, I also want to mention that mothers often dispose of their children nearer to their home so they can stay "close" to them. I'm not sure JB would have instinctively done this since she never bonded properly with Sky).

Is anyone on this site able to find the map some sleuthers developed that shows the route JB took along with where we believe the surveillance photos that LE released to have been taken? Watershed Park was along this route and LE searched it.
 
  • #287
Search & Seek -- WELCOME!!!! I agree, that a body of water would be in line with where many mothers dispose of their children and JB may have gone this route as well. Disposal is also typically done within a 5 to 10-mile radius of the mother's home (and we've wondered on this site which JB most considered her home to be -- the condo or the house she and SM had to give up?). We've also speculated that she may have disposed nearer to where SM lives out of spite, but I, personally, find this to be less likely. I'm guessing body of water, wooded area, or dumpster within 5-10 miles of JB's apartment.

Is anyone on this site able to find the map some sleuthers developed that shows the route JB took along with where we believe the surveillance photos that LE released to have been taken? Watershed Park was along this route and LE searched it.

If you look on the first post on the first page of this thread there is a great Nurse Beeme (sp?) map providing much detail. I don't think it has the exact route, but it provides good info.
hth
 
  • #288


From the above link:

"It seems like she's kind of on lockdown. She's not talking to anybody," said John Davis, who knows Biryukova from church.

This comment screams to me that Julia's mental illness has escalated tremendously.

I would have chosen to describe it as 'isolated herself' as opposed to "lockdown". Lockdown, imo, implies the person is under the direction and control of someone else. Julia's actions and lack of seeking appropriate medical care are by her own choosing. Let me rephrase that, as I understand the mentally ill can not always make the best decisions for themselves due to their illness. Julia has refused and fought hard against any and all who have tried to help her seek help for her illness, including her childrens father. And sadly it appears her son paid the ultimate sacrifice based on his mothers choices. :(

If Sky is no longer with us, his daddy still needs answers. Sky still needs a proper burial and his family closure, even though he is probably (and stealing this thought from nmk in another thread) having the best Christmas ever bouncing on Jesus lap.

Praying Sky is located and answers found so he can receive justice and his family closure.
 
  • #289
I like batting around different theories and I mulled this one over, trying to see if it could work. But, if JB secreted away Sky, then why not M -- whom she clearly favored? And, if SM secreted away Sky (or anyone else other than JB did), then how did he get his hands on the boy in the few, random minutes JB was away from her car before an eyewitness stopped by and saw no child in the car -- and how did SM do this without anyone seeing it happen on a busy road? Also, I think SM had immense compassion for JB's mental illness and did not consider her a second class, from what we can tell with public documents. I think it broke his heart to divorce her and his motives were pure and simply to protect their children. Just my opinion.


BBM. :clap: :clap: :clap: Thank you so much Rougelatete! That expresses exactly what I couldn't find the words to express. I could not agree with you more.

jmo
 
  • #290
I'm grateful for any bit of info, no matter how small, even if it is disheartening, because it may indicate that we might be one step closer to the truth and to Sky.

Ugh, the thought of him starving to death is horrible, as someone supposed up thread. You know, reading how he touches all of us here, how everyone wants to envision him warm and safe and happy, how no one can understand how he couldn't have touched his mother's heart, well, frankly, I'm thinking she must have been very ill not to have put this little baby first, to not have protected him and lived to make him happy.

I'm not a psychologist. I don't know how this works, so it's hard to me to understand. I remember first hearing about Andrea Yates and I was steadfast in believing that she is evil. I thought, I don't care how mentally ill a person is, mother's instinct should have broken through the fog of psychosis at some point as she drowned all five of her children, one by one. Some instinct should have prevented those murders, or at least stopped her from continuing on.

But then I read a book about the case and gained a new perspective. I can't say that I understand it or such serious mental illness, but I realized I was probably missing something and needed to try to understand. Because Andrea Yates now essentially lives in hell, in an endless cycle of getting stable mentally on medication, then realizing what she's done and going crazy again. It is horrific and it made me realize how sick she actually must have been.

I can't actually categorize Julia the same way, though, because she didn't call the police and calmly announce what she did. She is hiding what happened, hiding Sky and continuing to cause heartbreak. That tells me she is cognizant to some degree of the wrongfulness of her actions and lucid enough to try to get out of trouble.

Yet, her husband warned that she was severely mentally ill and that something like this could happen and it did. I wish those with psych backgrounds could explain a bit more how mental illness could cause something like this and if so, how ill can a person be if they are hiding what they've done, what would the possible cycle be if a person killed a child during psychosis, or allowed a child to die because their illness was too powerful for them to care for the child, etc., what happens after such an event in their minds? My instinct tells me that we will hear more from such people. That their illness will prevent them from keeping quiet. I want to know what the professionals can say. Rougelatete? Anyone else?

Well, of course, this is a tough question to answer, Gitana! And, it's all my opinion, but....

I, personally, think JB's situation is quite different from Andrea Yates. Andrea was suffering from psychosis and had lost touch with reality. Andrea called the cops on herself and firmly believed she had done what was in the best interest of the children. Hers was true psychosis. With JB, we have no evidence of a psychotic break and I doubt we ever will (I also don't believe she had a psychotic break or any type of ongoing psychotic disorder -- but I, of course, can't diagnose her via the internet so it's just my opinion based on court documents, her post-disappearance behavior, etc.)

A psychotic break at the time of Sky's disappearance would be challenging to prove for an insanity defense because she was not psychotic (or psychotic "enough") at the time LE showed up at the car for a missing baby -- if she was, then they would have taken her in right away for a Section 12. We know they didn't.

Also, there have been no stories released about witnesses seeing her behaving strangely during that time so it sounds like, as of now, there's really no evidence to back up a psychotic break for JB. Andrea, on the other hand, had a long history of it being documented, many witnesses, and -- as you mentioned -- she is tormented during the times when she is lucid by the fact that she did this. I don't get the sense that JB is tortured by Sky's disappearance at all.

I'm guessing that JB either starved Sky (and not M) because she is a vengeful woman who was railing at her ex-husband (or killed Sky another way) -- and this might lend itself to mental illness in terms of a personality disorder but would not back an insanity plea. Or, that Sky died as a result of neglect either by starving or getting into an accident while unsupervised. If this is the case, it may or may not have had anything to do with her OCD and other mental health issues. We do know that JB had a history of neglecting her children's need for food as a result of her OCD and I, also, am curious about M's state when removed from the home. I believe JB was always aware of what she was doing but may have been powerless to stop her OCD compulsions. But, there's no evidence of her being legally insane.

If Sky died as a result of improper supervision -- such as during the 12-hour mediation, then I believe that may have had less to do with OCD and falls more in line with JB possibly having a personality disorder (which I have believed pretty much all along). As we also know, JB is very self-serving and will go to great lengths to get what she wants -- including filing numerous false and disgusting allegations and updating her flickr account after her child's disappearance/death so that she can look like the perfect mom.

I must say, I am infinitely more sympathetic to Andrea Yates and other moms who kill their children while suffering from psychosis. I'm not all that sympathetic toward JB, as I think she's quite a different case. Quite a calculating, deceptive, self-serving woman, indeed.
 
  • #291
I shared the warm wishes with solomon today. He requests everyone keep looking for sky and if everyone can print flyers and hang them it would be very helpful! Flyers can be found in the photo gallery of www.searchandseekassociation.webs.com
 
  • #292
I shared the warm wishes with solomon today. He requests everyone keep looking for sky and if everyone can print flyers and hang them it would be very helpful! Flyers can be found in the photo gallery of www.searchandseekassociation.webs.com

Thank you so much for telling Solomon we are all thinking of him, especially during the holidays! We know it must be bittersweet for him -- finally having M to shower with gifts from Santa but not having Sky in his arms as well. I think it is important that Solomon knows there are people out here who believe in his innocence and believe in his goodness as a father and husband who tried desperately to do the right thing by his wife and his children but was thwarted every step of the way by a faulty system that failed him.

Solomon has suffered a lot -- especially in terms of being blamed and vilified for things he did not do and I hope it would be beneficial to his healing process to know that there are people out there who firmly believe he was wronged and who firmly believe in his goodness.

Merry Christmas Eve, Solomon & M!
 
  • #293
I think she could have put him anywhere, really. OCD has very specific rules that are individualized and the rules don't have to make sense with one another. In example, JB might consider my garbage to be clean (it is, lol) while hers is considered dirty. Just because JB had a fear of dust and germs at home doesn't mean she had them in public and doesn't mean it applied to a child she never bonded with.

Of course, it COULD mean that her OCD behaviors extended into the public sphere, but it also could not. Even if they did extend into the public sphere, she may have been able to tolerate the increase in anxiety long enough to do what she needed to save her butt (like throwing Sky in a dumpster and then taking many, many showers). In other words, OCD anxieties, thoughts, and behaviors rarely follow a linear line and rarely make some kind of logical sense. That's one of the reasons they're so disturbing to the individual suffering from them.

ETA: An earlier poster suggested that JB may have a hard time not "checking" on Sky. Just wanted to add that this also may or may not be the case. JB's OCD may not present as "checking" behaviors -- we haven't read anything, to my knowledge, about her having checking behaviors. And, again, even if she did, it doesn't necessarily mean she would check on Sky.

Well, of course, this is a tough question to answer, Gitana! And, it's all my opinion, but....

I, personally, think JB's situation is quite different from Andrea Yates. Andrea was suffering from psychosis and had lost touch with reality. Andrea called the cops on herself and firmly believed she had done what was in the best interest of the children. Hers was true psychosis. With JB, we have no evidence of a psychotic break and I doubt we ever will (I also don't believe she had a psychotic break or any type of ongoing psychotic disorder -- but I, of course, can't diagnose her via the internet so it's just my opinion based on court documents, her post-disappearance behavior, etc.)

A psychotic break at the time of Sky's disappearance would be challenging to prove for an insanity defense because she was not psychotic (or psychotic "enough") at the time LE showed up at the car for a missing baby -- if she was, then they would have taken her in right away for a Section 12. We know they didn't.

Also, there have been no stories released about witnesses seeing her behaving strangely during that time so it sounds like, as of now, there's really no evidence to back up a psychotic break for JB. Andrea, on the other hand, had a long history of it being documented, many witnesses, and -- as you mentioned -- she is tormented during the times when she is lucid by the fact that she did this. I don't get the sense that JB is tortured by Sky's disappearance at all.

I'm guessing that JB either starved Sky (and not M) because she is a vengeful woman who was railing at her ex-husband (or killed Sky another way) -- and this might lend itself to mental illness in terms of a personality disorder but would not back an insanity plea. Or, that Sky died as a result of neglect either by starving or getting into an accident while unsupervised. If this is the case, it may or may not have had anything to do with her OCD and other mental health issues. We do know that JB had a history of neglecting her children's need for food as a result of her OCD and I, also, am curious about M's state when removed from the home. I believe JB was always aware of what she was doing but may have been powerless to stop her OCD compulsions. But, there's no evidence of her being legally insane.

If Sky died as a result of improper supervision -- such as during the 12-hour mediation, then I believe that may have had less to do with OCD and falls more in line with JB possibly having a personality disorder (which I have believed pretty much all along). As we also know, JB is very self-serving and will go to great lengths to get what she wants -- including filing numerous false and disgusting allegations and updating her flickr account after her child's disappearance/death so that she can look like the perfect mom.

I must say, I am infinitely more sympathetic to Andrea Yates and other moms who kill their children while suffering from psychosis. I'm not all that sympathetic toward JB, as I think she's quite a different case. Quite a calculating, deceptive, self-serving woman, indeed.

Thank you so much for this excellent information. Some of it I don't like to hear. But, we need to know what's going on here and what's possible.

Do you think she will be able to simply go on with life as normal, or will this cause her to act in some way, if this was a result of either personality disorder or OCD neglect or both? I know it's hard to tell when you haven't diagnosed her but any suppositions are welcome by me!!!!!!!!!
 
  • #294
Search & Seek -- do you have any insider information on whether Julia had OCD behaviors in public, such as an extreme fear of contamination/germs/dust in public settings like banks and stores? Or was that confined to the home? Do you know if she had checking behaviors like checking to make sure the stove was turned off repeatedly, multiple times? Also, do you know if she had agoraphobia (a fear of going out in public) -- this might explain, in part, her "lockdown" isolation.....
 
  • #295
I shared the warm wishes with solomon today. He requests everyone keep looking for sky and if everyone can print flyers and hang them it would be very helpful! Flyers can be found in the photo gallery of www.searchandseekassociation.webs.com

Thank you search and seek. We will continue to keep him and little M in our prayers and we will be here until such time that Sky is found and brought home.
 
  • #296
Thank you Rougelatete for all of your very helpful information. I too see no comparison whatsoever between Andrea Yates and Julia, none period. I have extreme compassion for Andrea Yates because to me, she is the definition of true mental illness. I have no compassion at all for Julia because it's all pretty well spelled out in the documents that we have read, what she did to Sky was not an act of psychosis, etc., it was an act of pure hatred for Solomon, nothing more and nothing less (at least to me). I see Julia as a pretty similar person that Casey Anthony was. Take away the one thing that a person holds nearest and dearest to them, that is the ultimate act of revenge. They care nothing for anyone other than themselves. At any rate, I'm still praying and will continue to pray for a miracle.

Thanks to you as well Gitana for all of the helpful information you have provided in not only Sky's case but all the others as well.

Merry Christmas to all of you!
 
  • #297
Thank you so much for this excellent information. Some of it I don't like to hear. But, we need to know what's going on here and what's possible.

Do you think she will be able to simply go on with life as normal, or will this cause her to act in some way, if this was a result of either personality disorder or OCD neglect or both? I know it's hard to tell when you haven't diagnosed her but any suppositions are welcome by me!!!!!!!!!

I don't like to think of it either, but I think these to be the most likely scenarios, based on the information we have. I wish I could think like some of the other posters on here who are convinced that Sky was secreted away and is safe somewhere. But, as much as I entertain those thoughts, I can't back them up with the evidence.

I suspect that JB's mental health has deteriorated since reporting the disappearance. When stress increases, so does anxiety, and the OCD behaviors would also increase in frequency and severity. I imagine that JB is under great stress. So, in that way, I do think that, at this time, her mental health is further compromised and she is not just "living her life" in peace. I wouldn't be able to guess how long this increased state might last, if that is what's going on. JB is more likely to misstep, however, when under increased stress, so we can hope for that.

With a personality disorder, it would likely be different since JB would have "done away" with Sky out of a self-serving, self-focused need and/or vengeance. In that case, there's really nothing for her to grieve or "get over" as there might be with an accidental death or a death that occurred during psychosis. Many of us suspect that she never properly bonded with Sky and this might lend itself toward this scenario. I believe leaving the children unsupervised had more to do with a possible personality disorder than with OCD or anything else (although not feeding the kids was likely related to the OCD, so it's complicated).

I don't know which way the cards might fall on this one. I believe JB is suffering but I think she's suffering in much the same way she has always suffered -- she's suffering herself. And, she will probably continue to.
 
  • #298
My family has extensive experience with OCD, from the very worst case (my brother) to the rest of us, who have specific issues, but I've never heard of OCD leading to an act of violence, specifically. I think that if Julia harmed Sky, it had nothing to do with her illness, was more an act of rage against her husband, a more "garden variety" motive, as it were...JMO
 
  • #299
My family has extensive experience with OCD, from the very worst case (my brother) to the rest of us, who have specific issues, but I've never heard of OCD leading to an act of violence, specifically. I think that if Julia harmed Sky, it had nothing to do with her illness, was more an act of rage against her husband, a more "garden variety" motive, as it were...JMO

Yes, definitely. I fully agree with you. And, just to be clear, JB does suffer from a documented mental illness. Just because it's not psychosis doesn't mean it's not a mental illness. I was trying to suggest in earlier posts that what may have happened to Sky as a result of neglect due to the severity of her OCD behaviors (which, yes, Cluciano, would NOT be an act of violence) is very different from what might happen with a personality disorder, which could very well have been an act of violence. I'm suspecting that it's one of these two things (accidental via OCD or deliberate via personality disorder) but they're two very different avenues. Thank you for the clarification!
 
  • #300
Yes, definitely. I fully agree with you. And, just to be clear, JB does suffer from a documented mental illness. Just because it's not psychosis doesn't mean it's not a mental illness. I was trying to suggest in earlier posts that what may have happened to Sky as a result of neglect due to the severity of her OCD behaviors (which, yes, Cluciano, would NOT be an act of violence) is very different from what might happen with a personality disorder, which could very well have been an act of violence. I'm suspecting that it's one of these two things (accidental via OCD or deliberate via personality disorder) but they're two very different avenues. Thank you for the clarification!

I just want to say a big thank you to all the posters in this thread for your insight and knowledge! I wish everyone a safe and joyful Christmas!

With that, I think you are correct Rougelatete, with that JB is suffering from a personality disorder. It seems that everything we have learned about her so far, points to her being driven by a self serving disposition. She seems so driven by vengeance. Didn't she feel any empathy towards her children? :(

I also want to thank Search and Seek. I'm in Tacoma and if you need any help this way just let me know. I still would like to know if the area between Leary Way to the north, Redmond Town center to the east, Marymoor park to the south and Bear Creek to the east, has been searched. There are three ponds and the creek as well as an overpass there. . .dumpsters too. It is all a very short walk from Veloce Apts. I feel strongly that she disappeared Sky before she had the car. JMHO

Thanks!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
133
Guests online
2,725
Total visitors
2,858

Forum statistics

Threads
632,199
Messages
18,623,467
Members
243,056
Latest member
Urfavplutonian
Back
Top