Warren Jeffs FLDS compound in Texas surrounded by police #4

[SweetPea2]

I didn't see this posted so forgive me if it has been.

Men From Polygamy Sect Speak

Many of the men in the polygamist sect in Eldorado, Texas didn't know it is illegal to marry someone under 18, one of them tells Early Show co-anchor Maggie Rodriguez in an exclusive interview.

Rodriguez conducted the interview Sunday night with three men whose children were among more than 400 removed by authorities from the sect's compound in a raid earlier this month.

It was the first time since the raid that any male members of the sect spoke with a member of the media.

In the wide-ranging interview, Rodriguez asked, “After all this, can you see why society looks upon you and says, ‘A girl who's younger than 18 shouldn't be married and having sex?’ Has this forced you to reconsider?”

One of the men, who identified himself as Rulon (none of the three offered a last name) responded, "Yes, many of us perhaps were not even aware of such a law, but yes, we have been made very aware in the last two weeks and we do reconsider -- yes.” Rulon says he has six children, ranging in age from a year to nine.

All three said they would submit to DNA testing, as ordered by a Texas judge who wanted to help authorities determine who the parents of the children in custory are.

A man who gave his name as Edson and told Rodriguez he has four children, from almost four-years-old to 11, took issue with the view that youngsters are abused in the compound.

"I think they have a very false perception of the way we live because we're closed mouthed," Edson said. "They assume a lot of things that aren't there."

More @ Link

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/04/21/earlyshow/main4029811.shtml

 

[Glow]

Found one for you!

Underage and Pregnant

On Thursday, testimony in the giant custody case revealed that more than 20 girls taken from the polygamist Texas ranch became pregnant or gave birth before they were 16 or 17.
http://www.abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=4686862&page=1

ok I read the article at the link above. I think I see where some of the confusion comes in. Before 2005 the law in Texas allowed its citizens to marry at age 14. Since 2005 the law has been changed to 16. So if a girl became pregnant at age 14 in 2005 she would be a 17 year old mother now. I wonder how the state can prosecute a person for doing something that was legal then and isn't now? Their best case is to find girls who are currently pregnant and under 16 and what I had read is that there are possibly 3 girls in that category. If so then that is less than the number of girls who get pregnant in Texas at the same age who are not FLDS.

The last figure I heard was that there are 5 girls between 16 and 19 who are pregnant.

 

[FlowerChild]

I didn't see this posted so forgive me if it has been.

Men From Polygamy Sect Speak

Many of the men in the polygamist sect in Eldorado, Texas didn't know it is illegal to marry someone under 18, one of them tells Early Show co-anchor Maggie Rodriguez in an exclusive interview.

Rodriguez conducted the interview Sunday night with three men whose children were among more than 400 removed by authorities from the sect's compound in a raid earlier this month.

It was the first time since the raid that any male members of the sect spoke with a member of the media.

In the wide-ranging interview, Rodriguez asked, “After all this, can you see why society looks upon you and says, ‘A girl who's younger than 18 shouldn't be married and having sex?’ Has this forced you to reconsider?”

One of the men, who identified himself as Rulon (none of the three offered a last name) responded, "Yes, many of us perhaps were not even aware of such a law, but yes, we have been made very aware in the last two weeks and we do reconsider -- yes.” Rulon says he has six children, ranging in age from a year to nine.

All three said they would submit to DNA testing, as ordered by a Texas judge who wanted to help authorities determine who the parents of the children in custory are.

A man who gave his name as Edson and told Rodriguez he has four children, from almost four-years-old to 11, took issue with the view that youngsters are abused in the compound.

"I think they have a very false perception of the way we live because we're closed mouthed," Edson said. "They assume a lot of things that aren't there."

More @ Link

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/04/21/earlyshow/main4029811.shtml

~~~I call BS~~~
"Rulon" No Last Name is probably Rulon JEFFS!

And since Warren Jeffs (their "Prophet") is in PRISON for "sealing" (spiritually marrying) a 14 year old girl to one of his "Apostles" (minions) as one of his multiple wives, I have difficulty believing that the "priests" (men over 18) of the church did NOT KNOW THAT giving in marriage or marrying a girl under age 16 was illegal.

And it has been PROVEN over and over that this group has no moral issue with lying repeatedly to the "beast" (outside world/Govt/LE) to gain something from them. They are "trained" (brainwashed/indoctrinated) from birth to put on a different face to the outside world and say and do whatever the MUST to make those outsiders go away and leave them alone. Funny how lies INSIDE are punishable by excommunication-expulsion or worse "blood atonement" but lies to the outside are rewarded and praised.

My "hinky meter" goes right off the dial when I see ANY of these women or men on TV - they all have that same soft, unemotional, carefully worded, flat, toneless speech and affect and those badly acted emotions on their faces. It's like they are pod people and aren't very good at displaying real human emotions - so they have to fake it...badly. And because they are so isolated, they have no frame of reference and THINK they are really good at it...but they aren't. It reminds me of a 5 year old making up a "story" to explain how something got broken - they try so hard to make the story convincing, but they just aren't schooled enough in what REAL PEOPLE do, or say, or how their faces and body language look in similar situations to pull it off. Perhaps the "Prophet" should let them watch the "Hallmark" Channel or Lifetime Movies so they can get some idea of how the "infidels" out here will expect them to act when their children are removed en-mass and they are accused of institutionalized abuse??? I listened to Warren Jeff,s "teachings" on You Tube and they ALL SOUND JUST LIKE HIM!!! I am sure the MEN love that meek, unemotional, affect in their women - then they more closely resemble pastel door mats - and even the MEN take it on when they know they are being monitored or taped (just like Warren Jeffs did). But... it doesn't play in the heathen land out here where us infidels and sinners live because even the most out of touch can clearly see that it's not REAL or NATURAL behavior OR EMOTION. And as savvy as they THINK they are, and as practiced at the lies, this time it isn't going to work for them...the people they are dealing with now have seen and heard it ALL and I am sure most of them privately think it borders on learned sociopathy.

Anyone watch "Dexter"? This strikes me as the same thing as Dexter's Father teaching a born sociopath to ACT NORMAL and DISPLAY NORMAL EMOTIONS and CONTROL his urges. The FLDS seems to "train" sociopathy into the kids and then turn around and as adults, try to teach them NORMAL.

My Opinion

 

[Floh]

Pod People. indeed!

 

[SweetPea2]

ok I read the article at the link above. I think I see where some of the confusion comes in. Before 2005 the law in Texas allowed its citizens to marry at age 14. Since 2005 the law has been changed to 16. So if a girl became pregnant at age 14 in 2005 she would be a 17 year old mother now. I wonder how the state can prosecute a person for doing something that was legal then and isn't now? Their best case is to find girls who are currently pregnant and under 16 and what I had read is that there are possibly 3 girls in that category. If so then that is less than the number of girls who get pregnant in Texas at the same age who are not FLDS.

The last figure I heard was that there are 5 girls between 16 and 19 who are pregnant.

BUT...they were/are NOT legally married, thereforth it makes it R-A-P-E. A "spiritual ceremony" does not make it legal to rape litttle girls! :furious:

 

[SieSie]

The government being invasive
Those who choose an alternative lifestyle (without the abuse!)
The Latter Day Saints NOT being anything to do with the FLDS
Communal living


just off the top of my head.

ETA: International trafficking

Good ones, Floh!

Mods - can we have an answer as to whether this will be getting it's own forum or not? Is it still in discussion or has it been decided?? Thanks.

 

[Mygirlsadie]

How come during interviews they all talk the same? Like they are in a trance or something. It is the weirdest thing I have ever seen. They barely answer questions either. Every question gets answered with ''we need our children back''..Yeah really? What do you NEED them for?

 

[Mygirlsadie]

Exactly! And not to mention that regardless if these little/young girls wanted the sex from the older men or not it's not like they had a say so in the situation. They are taught to accept it as a part of their ''life''... So disgusting.

BUT...they were/are NOT legally married, thereforth it makes it R-A-P-E. A "spiritual ceremony" does not make it legal to rape litttle girls! :furious:

 

[Glow]

BUT...they were/are NOT legally married, thereforth it makes it R-A-P-E.

having sex while not married is not what makes something rape. If they were 14 years old in the year 2005 the state of Texas said they were legally allowed to marry.


A "spiritual ceremony" does not make it legal to rape litttle girls! :furious:

that speaks to the issue of polygamy. There are two seperate issues going on here although it seems to keep getting balled up into one.

 

[SewingDeb]

ok I read the article at the link above. I think I see where some of the confusion comes in. Before 2005 the law in Texas allowed its citizens to marry at age 14. Since 2005 the law has been changed to 16. So if a girl became pregnant at age 14 in 2005 she would be a 17 year old mother now. I wonder how the state can prosecute a person for doing something that was legal then and isn't now? Their best case is to find girls who are currently pregnant and under 16 and what I had read is that there are possibly 3 girls in that category. If so then that is less than the number of girls who get pregnant in Texas at the same age who are not FLDS.

The last figure I heard was that there are 5 girls between 16 and 19 who are pregnant.

I can see what you are saying when comparing the number of underage girls who became pregnant in Texas with the number who became pregnant in the FDLS compound but there is one big difference. I would wager that the majority of the girls in Texas chose to have sex whereas the FDLS girls are assigned partners and have no real choice in the matter. Also, many of the Texas girls may be Hispanic and their culture seems to find it normal for young girls to date older men...still their choice.

In the FDLS compound there is no dating that I can see. No choosing a marriage partner.

 

[FlowerChild]

ok I read the article at the link above. I think I see where some of the confusion comes in. Before 2005 the law in Texas allowed its citizens to marry at age 14. Since 2005 the law has been changed to 16. So if a girl became pregnant at age 14 in 2005 she would be a 17 year old mother now. I wonder how the state can prosecute a person for doing something that was legal then and isn't now? Their best case is to find girls who are currently pregnant and under 16 and what I had read is that there are possibly 3 girls in that category. If so then that is less than the number of girls who get pregnant in Texas at the same age who are not FLDS.

The last figure I heard was that there are 5 girls between 16 and 19 who are pregnant.

Actually it really doesn't apply in many of the cases HERE because very FEW of these GIRLS are actually legally MARRIED to the man who fathered the child. They can claim ignorance for ACTUAL LEGAL marriages (registered with the state) that took place AFTER 2005 but I assume that most of the GIRLS are legally single (and thus entitled to state benefits) and then it would be statutory RAPE. And IF the person claimed or met the qualifications for Texas's "common law marriage" and was thusly "married" to more than one woman at a time - the MAN is also guilty of bigamy.

And I am not sure, but I believe - even before the 2005 law change - that a girl UNDER AGE 18 MUST have her parent's permission AND appear before a JUDGE to "marry". Well if the marriage is to be a legal one anyway. What this group is doing is being done OUTSIDE of the law on MANY LEVELS - and "celestial plural marriage" of girls UNDER AGE 18 in TEXAS looks like ABUSE and RAPE - forced by her parents - in the eyes of the LAW. It's a hair away from organized pedophelia, pandering and human traffic-ing. I doubt the FLDS parents were/are running to court to get permission every time Warren Jeffs ordered a girl under age 18 to "seal" herself to some old man in a "secret celestial plural marriage" ceremony.

And I think there are plenty of
A- girls who gave birth before 2005 and were age 14 or under and B - girls who gave birth and are currently pregnant at age 16 or under.
Once ACCURATE information is available I think we will ALL be stunned at the numbers at just this ONE property - and know for every 1 girl here, there are likely 5 more somewhere ELSE.

My Opinion

 

[SweetPea2]

How come during interviews they all talk the same? Like they are in a trance or something. It is the weirdest thing I have ever seen. They barely answer questions either. Every question gets answered with ''we need our children back''..Yeah really? What do you NEED them for?

this bothered me too. They are distant and don't come off as loving parents. They call them children and child. Me, I'd be pleading I want my son and my daughter home where they belong. They are just so impersonal with it.

 

[Niner]

Not sure if this was ever resolved - as I haven't had time to read the last 10 or so pages!! I couldn't get those 3 signatures to print over on this post - but the original postings are here:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63273&page=34 post #832

I sent a copy to a handwriting expert - Cherokee - from another forum and here is what she had to say about those 3 signatures:

I took a look at the signatures. Yes, there is a high degree of probability they were signed by one person. It's obvious someone tried to alter the handwriting a little to make it look like three different people, but the same handwriting/personality traits came out in the signatures. In particular, the capital "J" in Jessop and Johnson is a VERY unusual exemplar that is the same in both names. Also, the capitals "S" and "M" are made with the exact same strokes although there was an attempt to slightly alter their look. There are many other similarities, too numerous to mention here.

There is a quirkiness to the handwriting that is present in all three signatures. It would be next to impossible for three different women to have the same unusual traits in their signatures. In particular, signatures are always very personal as they represent the writer's identity as they want to be seen by others.

I don't know who signed that document, but it wasn't three different women. It was signed by one woman, or man, for all three.

So I hope that is cleared up!!

 

[mysteriew]

[COLOR=Red[B]]~~~I call BS~~~[/COLOR]
"Rulon" No Last Name is probably Rulon JEFFS!

And since Warren Jeffs (their "Prophet") is in PRISON for "sealing" (spiritually marrying) a 14 year old girl to one of his "Apostles" (minions) as one of his multiple wives, I have difficulty believing that the "priests" (men over 18) of the church did NOT KNOW THAT giving in marriage or marrying a girl under age 16 was illegal.
And it has been PROVEN over and over that this group has no moral issue with lying repeatedly to the "beast" (outside world/Govt/LE) to gain something from them. They are "trained" (brainwashed/indoctrinated) from birth to put on a different face to the outside world and say and do whatever the MUST to make those outsiders go away and leave them alone. Funny how lies INSIDE are punishable by excommunication-expulsion or worse "blood atonement" but lies to the outside are rewarded and praised.

My "hinky meter" goes right off the dial when I see ANY of these women or men on TV - they all have that same soft, unemotional, carefully worded, flat, toneless speech and affect and those badly acted emotions on their faces. It's like they are pod people and aren't very good at displaying real human emotions - so they have to fake it...badly. And because they are so isolated, they have no frame of reference and THINK they are really good at it...but they aren't. It reminds me of a 5 year old making up a "story" to explain how something got broken - they try so hard to make the story convincing, but they just aren't schooled enough in what REAL PEOPLE do, or say, or how their faces and body language look in similar situations to pull it off. Perhaps the "Prophet" should let them watch the "Hallmark" Channel or Lifetime Movies so they can get some idea of how the "infidels" out here will expect them to act when their children are removed en-mass and they are accused of institutionalized abuse??? I listened to Warren Jeff,s "teachings" on You Tube and they ALL SOUND JUST LIKE HIM!!! I am sure the MEN love that meek, unemotional, affect in their women - then they more closely resemble pastel door mats - and even the MEN take it on when they know they are being monitored or taped (just like Warren Jeffs did). But... it doesn't play in the heathen land out here where us infidels and sinners live because even the most out of touch can clearly see that it's not REAL or NATURAL behavior OR EMOTION. And as savvy as they THINK they are, and as practiced at the lies, this time it isn't going to work for them...the people they are dealing with now have seen and heard it ALL and I am sure most of them privately think it borders on learned sociopathy.

Anyone watch "Dexter"? This strikes me as the same thing as Dexter's Father teaching a born sociopath to ACT NORMAL and DISPLAY NORMAL EMOTIONS and CONTROL his urges. The FLDS seems to "train" sociopathy into the kids and then turn around and as adults, try to teach them NORMAL.

My Opinion

Excellent point! And even if the leaders lied about why he was put in prison, with the number of FLDS on the internet, someone would have found out and word would have gotten around.

 

[mysteriew]

Originally Posted by mysteriew
Check out the comments in the blog. They are asking for "information guerillas" talking about "resistance" and say they will provide training.
http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/bas...lorado_cit.php

lol, we are not the only one who noticed the "unibrow". The Twilight Zone comparison is the perfect description.

I've been fascinated by the morbid Twilight Zone-like tours of YFZ by sometimes unibrowed FLDS moms

My fear is that the FLDS will respond to the latest raid by becoming a paramilitary organization. Don't forget that during the raid authorities reportedly found a cache of weapons. That is probably not their only cache. I also question whether they will attempt to organize and mount a raid of their own attempting to get the children back.

I wonder, has any media attempted to speak to Warren since the raid?

 

[Clearly Confused]

I only know that 27 adolescent boys were taken and put into a group foster home last week (removed from the rest of the group). As far as boys 10 and under, I'm not sure of the numbers.

Thanks! Wow...that is a low number. Out of 400 and sum kids only 27 are adolescents? I can't wait to see how many girls are in this age group.

 

[SewingDeb]

I think this is an interesting blog (found it when mysteriew's link wouldn't work, don't know if it is the same one she tried to link):

http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬/2008/04/short_creek_redux_colorado_cit.php


For some perspective, I turned to Colorado City historian Benjamin Bistline, author of The Polygamists: A History of Colorado City, Arizona. Bistline, who is in his 70s, grew up in that community, experienced the Short Creek raid, and still lives just outside of Colorado City proper. Oft-quoted by those researching or writing about the FLDS, Bistline has been closely following the Texas situation and spoke to me late last week.

What’s your general impression of what’s happened in Texas? Do you think it’s an overreaction by the Texas authorities?

Bistline: It’s not overreaction. The ’53 raid at Short Creek -- there was no justification for it. I was 18 years old. I was part of that raid, when the state of Arizona raided it. That was a whole, entirely different situation. The town was open and free. We could come and go. We lived in our own houses. We weren’t living behind a big, long wall or anything.

In Texas, they’ve got a compound that’s surrounded by a fence. And those kids cannot go in or out. And I don’t think most of the women even are free to travel in or out. I know there are underage marriages going on there.

How do you know that?

Bistline: I just know those people. I’m related to pretty near every one of them. I knew them growing up, I know what they’re taught, and I know how they live. Have you listened to some of the answers those girls they’ve questioned give when they ask them if they know of any underage pregnancies? It don’t take no psychological genius to know those girls are lying. You can tell they’re lying by their answers.

 

[golfmom]

Not sure if this was ever resolved - as I haven't had time to read the last 10 or so pages!! I couldn't get those 3 signatures to print over on this post - but the original postings are here:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63273&page=34 post #832

I sent a copy to a handwriting expert - Cherokee - from another forum and here is what she had to say about those 3 signatures:

I took a look at the signatures. Yes, there is a high degree of probability they were signed by one person. It's obvious someone tried to alter the handwriting a little to make it look like three different people, but the same handwriting/personality traits came out in the signatures. In particular, the capital "J" in Jessop and Johnson is a VERY unusual exemplar that is the same in both names. Also, the capitals "S" and "M" are made with the exact same strokes although there was an attempt to slightly alter their look. There are many other similarities, too numerous to mention here.

There is a quirkiness to the handwriting that is present in all three signatures. It would be next to impossible for three different women to have the same unusual traits in their signatures. In particular, signatures are always very personal as they represent the writer's identity as they want to be seen by others.

I don't know who signed that document, but it wasn't three different women. It was signed by one woman, or man, for all three.

So I hope that is cleared up!!

Niner, thanks so much for having someone look at that for us. :blowkiss:

 

[SewingDeb]

A whole series of articles were written for one newspaper on polygamy.

Polygamy in Arizona by John Dougherty

http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/specialReports/view/212740

 

[golfmom]

I didn't see these posted, but if they were, my apologizes.

These are both FLDS websites:

http://captivefldschildren.org/
http://fldstruth.org/