Warren Jeffs FLDS compound in Texas surrounded by police #4

[Clearly Confused]

I need to find that link but at work so I'll have to look when I get home. It also stated there were no pain meds given during childbirth and they were to be silent as well. No way in hell I could do that!

ETA: found the link!

Page 189: FLDS leaders don't look kindly on modern medicine. During childbirth, "a doctor was never present, nor was pain medication ever used. Women were expected to be perfectly silent during childbirth. If a woman screamed or made loud noises she was criticized for being out of control. Sometimes she'd be reprimanded by her husband during her delivery."
http://www.slate.com/id/2189275/?GT1=38001

Criticized for being out of control...lol...I love to see these strong in control men keep there thing...oh never mind....double standard I suppose.

 

[Leila]

How come during interviews they all talk the same? Like they are in a trance or something. It is the weirdest thing I have ever seen. They barely answer questions either. Every question gets answered with ''we need our children back''..Yeah really? What do you NEED them for?

Exactly! And the all the mothers refer to them as "the" children or "our" children. I've yet to see one mother personalize it saying, "I love my little boy (or girl) and want my child home with me."

 

[Moe]

Doesn't this article size things up, those poor children!
http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008/apr/22/dna-sampling-of-ranch-parents-starts-in-eldorado/

 

[nanandjim]

I need to know why it is okay for these God fearing women and men to lie, cheat and steal? How can they rationalize this unchistianlike behavior??

 

[Pepper]

I have asked Glow about that but she seems to have missed my post.

As far as I have read, the case is under a gag order. Which means that no one outside of the investigation is to be told what evidence and witness statements they have or don't have.

Glow does speak with a lot of assurance on the question of what evidence is available. And she has spoken of her expertise and vested interest. Since no evidence is supposed to be released to anyone outside the investigation, I have asked Glow if she is involved in the investigation in some way?

Maybe she's that ACLU attorney I saw on Fox this morning?

 

[Leila]

Not sure if this was ever resolved - as I haven't had time to read the last 10 or so pages!! I couldn't get those 3 signatures to print over on this post - but the original postings are here:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63273&page=34 post #832

I sent a copy to a handwriting expert - Cherokee - from another forum and here is what she had to say about those 3 signatures:

I took a look at the signatures. Yes, there is a high degree of probability they were signed by one person. It's obvious someone tried to alter the handwriting a little to make it look like three different people, but the same handwriting/personality traits came out in the signatures. In particular, the capital "J" in Jessop and Johnson is a VERY unusual exemplar that is the same in both names. Also, the capitals "S" and "M" are made with the exact same strokes although there was an attempt to slightly alter their look. There are many other similarities, too numerous to mention here.

There is a quirkiness to the handwriting that is present in all three signatures. It would be next to impossible for three different women to have the same unusual traits in their signatures. In particular, signatures are always very personal as they represent the writer's identity as they want to be seen by others.

I don't know who signed that document, but it wasn't three different women. It was signed by one woman, or man, for all three.

So I hope that is cleared up!!

Thanks Niner! Those are the three letters - J, M, and S, - that I noted as being the same. See my reply #857 in that same thread.

This is just another example of the deceit the FLDS is capable of.

 

[LinasK]

Doesn't this article size things up, those poor children!
http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008/apr/22/dna-sampling-of-ranch-parents-starts-in-eldorado/

From this article: "We've got nothing to hide. We've broken no laws. "It makes me feel like a criminal."



My response: You should feel like a criminal because you have broken laws- rape, incest, and bigamy for starters!



More from this article:Williams, who said he now lives in southern Utah, said he has three sons among the children from the YFZ Ranch in state custody in San Angelo.
Williams said that when he left the FLDS church, his wife left him and came to the YFZ Ranch.
He made it clear that despite having left the sect, he has not repudiated its beliefs.
"The heavenly father is boss, and Warren Jeffs is his representative on Earth," Williams said, referring to the leader of the sect who is now serving prison time for being an accomplice to rape.
Williams said he wants to obey the laws of the land as long they don't conflict with the laws of the church. When pressed by reporters, he said that when they do conflict, he would disobey the laws of the land and endure persecution.



My response: This is exactly why this cult must be broken up and the children never returned!

 

[mysteriew]

Doesn't this article size things up, those poor children!
http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008/apr/22/dna-sampling-of-ranch-parents-starts-in-eldorado/

In the comments they are saying that the men have all left the compound and they are not showing up for the DNA testing. They are asking where all of the men have gone. They are also commenting on the fact that suddenly there aren't any/many FLDS supporters posting there.

Also, this comment concerns me

Posted by danbygrace1 on April 22, 2008 at 11:32 a.m.

Reply to this post
(Suggest removal)
Dear FLDS members.

Let me be the first to say I am truly sorry for your horrable mistreatment at the hands of these CRIMINALS. Be assured help is on the way.

 

[FlowerChild]

I can see what you are saying when comparing the number of underage girls who became pregnant in Texas with the number who became pregnant in the FDLS compound but there is one big difference. I would wager that the majority of the girls in Texas chose to have sex whereas the FDLS girls are assigned partners and have no real choice in the matter. Also, many of the Texas girls may be Hispanic and their culture seems to find it normal for young girls to date older men...still their choice.

In the FDLS compound there is no dating that I can see. No choosing a marriage partner.

Per the "teachings" of Warren Jeffs (in his own words on You Tube) and the "private, special book" (also shown on You Tube) Boys and girls are segregated from BIRTH. They do not play together, worship together, or live together - each "sex" has it's own areas in those in-home dorms and the boys are taken to male only dorms at puberty - while the girls remain with their "mothers". I would assume they MIGHT eat meals together and receive "instruction" from their Father at HOME at the same time until they reach puberty - after, males and females are forbidden to speak, spend time together or even be "at home" together UNLESS they are "married". Even siblings are separated by sex. There IS NO DATING OR CONTACT permitted EVER and the members do not chose their spouse(s) - the "Prophet" with advice from his 12 "Apostles" decide WHO marries who. And Marriages are often "sealed" with less than a week's notice - between TOTAL STRANGERS. And the girls are either forced into marriage or held prisoner until they submit, or excommunicated/expelled without notice at age 17.

And even adult women over 18 with children who are already "sealed" can be "resealed" to another husband if their spouse dies or is "removed/expelled" or the "Prophet" decides they need to be with another man. They are always at risk (and in fear) of losing their husband or children at the hands of the "Church" no matter if they remain 100% compliant - "sweet","pure" and "obedient". They are CHATTEL! Wives and children are changed like HATS by the men....wives getting older, had maximum children, no longer "appealing"? Then the Prophet will take a few of the ones you no longer want and give them to a younger man and "seal" you to some fresh young 14-16 year old girls. Children are passed around too, have too many BOYS and no valuable girls to barter? The Prophet will just pick out a few nice "sweet" little girls for you from elsewhere and send them to you.

It's SICK - the kids have no toys, no education, no exposure to the world outside the compound and no CHOICES. They WORK and go to church and have "training"- that is their life in the FLDS. the "Prophet" tells them what to wear, say and think from BIRTH - down to their hairstyles. And by age 5 they are robotically alike and obedient. There is NO MEDIA - no radios, newspapers, books, TV, internet, e-mail or open contact with the world outside the compound and FLDS. Letters and phone calls are strictly controlled and censored by the husband/father. Only the most "trusted" women are allowed outside the fence. Of course the kids lie - most of them are taught to lie to anyone questioning them that the woman they are with at the time is their "mother" - I would guess that many of the little ones have no concept of a single mother belonging only to them. And whatever man they live with is their "father". UGHHHHH!

It's little better than slavery in the guise of religion!

My Opinion

 

[Pepper]

Doesn't this article size things up, those poor children!
http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008/apr/22/dna-sampling-of-ranch-parents-starts-in-eldorado/

I saw this David Williams being interviewed this morning, and that interview sure left me confused. He sounded just like the rest of the robots - meek voice, denouncing the raid, etc. He also defended Warren Jeffs as the Prophet and agreed with his rules, etc. So if he still believes all this stuff, then why is he EX-FLDS? The only thing I can think of is that he must have been thrown out for some reason, but not because he's not a "true believer."

Anyone else see this?

 

[cook78]

Looks like they may be getting ready to move the kiddos...
http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008/apr/22/san-angelo-coliseum-locked-down-as-buses-on/

One bus filled with children left the coliseum just before 1 p.m. Central time today, escorted by police cars and ambulances.
http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,695272825,00.html

 

[Leila]

Originally Posted by mysteriew
Check out the comments in the blog. They are asking for "information guerillas" talking about "resistance" and say they will provide training.
http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/bas...lorado_cit.php



My fear is that the FLDS will respond to the latest raid by becoming a paramilitary organization. Don't forget that during the raid authorities reportedly found a cache of weapons. That is probably not their only cache. I also question whether they will attempt to organize and mount a raid of their own attempting to get the children back.

I wonder, has any media attempted to speak to Warren since the raid?

This is another good reason to break the children up into smaller groups and send them to foster homes. If the men were to try to take children back by force, the children wouldn't be in one central location.

As for Warren Jeffs - the hearing to decide if he gets a new trial begins on Thursday. I'm sure the media will try to get a statement from him regarding the YFZ.

 

[mysteriew]

Looks like they may be getting ready to move the kiddos...
http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008/apr/22/san-angelo-coliseum-locked-down-as-buses-on/

One bus filled with children left the coliseum just before 1 p.m. Central time today, escorted by police cars and ambulances.
http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,695272825,00.html

Is it a coincidence that they are moving the children and at the same time, the men are absent from the compound and the FLDS is suddenly quiet on the internet at the exact same time?

 

[LinasK]

Is it a coincidence that they are moving the children and at the same time, the men are absent from the compound and the FLDS is suddenly quiet on the internet at the exact same time?

Maybe they were tipped that the men were planning something, like a break-in.

 

[SewingDeb]

I agree completely FlowerChild. It sounds a lot like the way slavery was in this country. Husbands and wives split, children sold elsewhere.

 

[FlowerChild]

From what the media is reporting the FLDS compound in SD has been abandoned as of today - not a single person remains. They are running - probably to other closed compounds in Canada or Mexico/South America. Their response to the USA restricting their behavior to the LAWS has sent them to friendlier (for now) countries like rats from a sinking ship.

Hilldale and Colorado City are next, I'm sure.
My Opinion

 

[SewingDeb]

Maybe they were tipped that the men were planning something, like a break-in.

That may very well be.

 

[cook78]

FlowerChild, where are you reading that?

 

[LinasK]

Here's a comment I found interesting:

Regarding "Fundamental fashion" (Arizona Living, Monday):

I read with amazement your article about fashion among the women in the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

Who would have guessed that Warren Jeffs was also a fashion designer? If he'd have taken it one step further and added a head covering, he could have ordered burkas.

It seems like the FLDS and conservative Islam both share the same opinion of women. http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/opinions/articles/0422tuelets228.html

 

[Leila]

Doesn't this article size things up, those poor children!
http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008/apr/22/dna-sampling-of-ranch-parents-starts-in-eldorado/

Apparently, this is turning out the way many of us expected - the men not willing to give their DNA. I'm sure that any man who's fathered a child with an underage girl is going to avoid giving DNA, fearing it would lead to criminal charges.

There was one comment following that article I saw that I hope will be confirmed or refuted in the next day or two - here's the comment:

I heard the news reporters from San Angelo say last night that the men were all gone from the compound. So they not only won't claim their children, they also leave the women to take care of themselves, after having held them on the premises for years.