Warren Jeffs FLDS compound in Texas surrounded by police #4

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  • #601
Well stated Native New Yorker........the focus should be on the real issues of what's happening with this case.

It would appear, by the lack of cooperation of the FLDS men and women, that their concern over exposure of their cult is paramount to their desire to get their children back.

Didn't we hear those women who were interviewed at the ranch state that they would do whatever it took to get their children back? Yet, require them to take a DNA test or identify themselves and they won't do even that.


Leila,
Words are cheap & they're liars to boot.

I wonder if any of them honestly know who they are? Do they really know there age? Do they know whose kids are who?

Something is terribly wrong with this picture. I hope LE sent plenty of guards with the buses to make sure the kids are safe......I'd put nothing past the FLDS........NOTHING!!!!
 
  • #602
After reading that publication from Arizona (see my post above on this page), I doubt the men would return to Colorado City or Hildale. They don't have a strong base of support there. My best guess is an unknown safe house type of place or, over the border into Mexico where they reportedly have an FLDS community.

I bet any men left at the FLDS ranch are young men with one wife, or young men who are single.

There was a comment on the San Angelo news site that the members of the FLDS compound in S.D. have left that compound too.

Yes I read that about the FLDS compound in S.D. thats why I hope plenty of LE is following the buses. They've had 2 wks now to make plans & it could be BAD! Maybe I watch to much TV. Just very odd to me.
 
  • #603
BRAVO, Cheko1 !!! :clap:

Every passionate and frustrated/knowing word you wrote ... echoes hugely within me!

AGREED!!!

Polk ...

What yellow belly chicken chits!!!!!
I just knew nobody would show up for the DNA tests or else the young guys who have worked & paid there dues for a young wife & only has one wife would show up.

The old geezers could care less about the kids. Same way with the women....they all put on such a fake phoney act. SHAME ON THEM ALL!
 
  • #604
Scary thought!
 
  • #605
Leila,
Words are cheap & they're liars to boot.

I wonder if any of them honestly know who they are? Do they really know there age? Do they know whose kids are who?

Something is terribly wrong with this picture. I hope LE sent plenty of guards with the buses to make sure the kids are safe......I'd put nothing past the FLDS........NOTHING!!!!

Cheko...............I'd love to see the media get back into the YFZ ranch and this time ask the hard questions..........
1. Why are you refusing to identify yourselves and your children?
2. If you really want your children back, why won't you cooperate with the authorities?
3. Marilyn.........you gave a tour of your home. Where are the children's toys?
4. Where are the children's fathers? Don't they care about the children? Why won't they talk to anyone?

I bet those of us here at WS could come up with some good questions! :)
 
  • #606
Yes I read that about the FLDS compound in S.D. thats why I hope plenty of LE is following the buses. They've had 2 wks now to make plans & it could be BAD! Maybe I watch to much TV. Just very odd to me.

Yes.........it is VERY strange. The busses that left San Angelo with the children were accompanied by LE and ambulances. I thought the ambulances was a strange addition to the entourage, unless they've got pregnant girls who are close to giving birth.

There were reports that the destinations of the busses was wide-ranging - going to many different cities in the state of Texas - can't remember all of them, but Austin, Amarillo, and Houston were on the list along with several more. I like the idea of spreading the children out across the state - not in one central location. I think it's safer that way.
 
  • #607
Yes.........it is VERY strange. The busses that left San Angelo with the children were accompanied by LE and ambulances. I thought the ambulances was a strange addition to the entourage, unless they've got pregnant girls who are close to giving birth.

There were reports that the destinations of the busses was wide-ranging - going to many different cities in the state of Texas - can't remember all of them, but Austin, Amarillo, and Houston were on the list along with several more. I like the idea of spreading the children out across the state - not in one central location. I think it's safer that way.


I agree about keeping the kids in more than one place too.

I thought I'd read about LE & the ambulances following the buses. Thing is LE could be over taken by the FLDS if there was enough of them. Since S.D. is empty they could of merged for a severe range war. I just don't trust them.....
 
  • #608
Hi all

HEADS UP

Just seen "live briefing" right now on CNN re polygamist issue ... not sure about other TV stations...

Polk
 
  • #609
No news about the people leaving, I'm hoping Nancy is all over this. With the big primary tonight she is our only hope this evening.
 
  • #610
They've only moved 100 children so far. http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/04/22/polygamy.testing/index.html

I think we need to be careful jumping the gun on believing the men have left the compound. Also that there have only been a handful of parents to step forward to do the DNA testing. We just don't know yet. Don't believe everything you hear. Especially when it's so early in the game. I'm sure Media will be all over it if either prove to be true.
 
  • #611
I hope your right! I pray you are right, those kids deserve better.
 
  • #612
Last I heard Admins were looking to create a private forum for this topic.
 
  • #613
Originally Posted by Glow
I agree. I just hope that everyone understands EXACTLY what we are turning these children over to. As per my previous link the state of Texas is not prepared to handle this. Abuse is simply abuse. If it takes place in a home the well meaning government put you in OR it takes place in your familiar home surroundings.

As far as abuse, there is no evidence of abuse of young children at YFZ.



I have asked Glow about that but she seems to have missed my post.

As far as I have read, the case is under a gag order. Which means that no one outside of the investigation is to be told what evidence and witness statements they have or don't have.

Glow does speak with a lot of assurance on the question of what evidence is available. And she has spoken of her expertise and vested interest. Since no evidence is supposed to be released to anyone outside the investigation, I have asked Glow if she is involved in the investigation in some way?

Mysteri, I think everyone here speaks with a lot of assurance, don't you? We all have been able to read the same things. The link I read is the one in the San Angelo paper. When Angie Voss was asked

Can you identify any households in which a child was caused serious injury or death?

she replied "Yes"

she also said

"There were some suspected broken bones"


If we break this down logically, her answers are interesting. The first question asks about serious injury OR death. She answers "yes" There has been absolutely no one who has come forward saying there have been any deaths. So that leaves us with the other part of the question. As to her answer about "serious injury", if Angie Voss feels she is looking at evidence of child rape then she can logically answer that question yes. Which she did.

Her only requirement under law is that she has to have reason to suspect. Not proof....just a "reason". That reason could be a lot of things. It could be the blond hair found on the bed in the temple area. It could be a pregnant girl she saw in the compound. It could be practically anything. The only point is she HAD to say something made her decide to move the children and that is what she did. Her careful wording was evident once again when she was asked if any of the children had broken bones, injuries or malnutrition that showed up in medical examinations.

We know that when Dr's at Fort Concho examined the children they said the children were healthy, Dr. Smith in fact went so far as to say they were exceptionally healthy they had no injuries or malnutrition so she could not say yes to that part of the question so she answers "There were some suspected broken bones."

That was a good political answer. I could suspect my next door neighbor is from Mars but that has absolutely no validity and neither does her answer. As a matter of fact everything everyone BUT her has said about the children is exactly the opposite. Later when she is asked what the danger is to having the younger children returned she doesn't mention the "serious abuse" OR the "suspected" broken bones. Instead she says her concern is "a global pattern that underage marriage and children having children is permitted."

So she never does come right out and say there was ANY witnessed abuse of the younger children in any way. She is concerned about "future" abuse. That's it.

In any "juicy" trial or hearing there are ALWAYS leaks. That is just life. If there was any physical abuse noted with the young children we would have heard rumors flying like mad and we haven't. Instead we have been told by medical experts (which Ms Voss is not) that they are instead, exceptionally healthy. That is why I said above that there is no abuse of the young children at YFZ.
 
  • #614
From Tnajk's link:

The initial count was rushed, they said, and they have discovered that some females were not 18 or older, as they claimed. Those young women are now being counted as minors.
 
  • #615
I cannot find the original article but reading in the comments following THIS article
http://www.rapidcityjournal.com/articles/2008/04/19/news/top/doc48095d0a7405a514684976.txt the "locals" are saying the women and children went 1st and (by the 18th) and from the little blurb I read at the end of another article it said there was NO-ONE at the SD compound today (4-22) - not even the "head guy" who was the one the authorities and neighbors had contact with. According to the little blurb I read ALL the known FLDS compounds in the USA are being systematically emptied/evacuated. I DO remember in one of the YouTube videos the documentary film makes TOOK an ex-member down into Mexico to get some of her belongings that were with her daughter and THAT compound was like 15 miles from even a rough DIRT road in the middle of NOWHERE in Mexico - somewhere South of the AZ border.

They are RUNNING - men women and children...poof, gone..overnight. THIS is why the CPS in Texas HAD to remove the children and keep them under their strict supervision. These supposedly honest, hard working, very religious and upstanding people who have nothing to hide are afraid to face any scrutiny by US or State Authorities in ANY way. If they are so innocent - then WHY would ALL the members across the USA find it necessary to disappear in the night? There have been NO allegations about anyone at any other compound - if forced marriage and impregnating 14 year old girls and abusing children and infants wasn't common practice then WHY RUN?

They keep saying they have done nothing wrong and their life and parenting are exemplary and perfect and wholesome and moral and they just want to prove it and get their kids back. If that is the case ...where ARE THEY??? The kids, the women and now the men...ALL GONE - like they never existed. It is being reported that like 5 men remain at the YFZ Ranch to care for livestock and everyone else is GONE. Where are all those "weeping" mothers from YFZ today? 3 Men showed up for DNA - 3 MEN! That's all - and reports are that all the woman are not at YFZ either.

I said early on that if the heat didn't let up on these "perfect" loving parents and they got a chance to get away they would disappear and abandon their now "ruined by the infidels" children to the state of Texas. And so, it appears that they have. Like I said earlier, what MOTHER joyfully and willingly escorts her 14 year old daughter to a marriage bed with a man her daughter has never met and who is probably a MINIUMUM of 30 years her senior? And I say now, what MOTHER OR FATHER abandons their child/children to the state and LEAVES without a word? Wanna wager that they "Prophet" sent them to Mexico and they are even now preparing to start new families there, where the US cannot reach them or extradite them to face charges here without a fight.

Any parent who can hand off their child in marriage to a stranger or just send them to another compound to another mother and father - just hand them over to another family without question is IMO, perfectly prepared to abandon their now "ruined" children to the "beast" and go off to another place, another compound and begin again and never look back. And I think THAT is what they will do - those "mothers" are MORE concerned with obeying their "prophet" and their husband and remaining obedient and "sweet" and compliant than they are with their children. I still believe to these people children are considered like livestock or a possession - it's just a loss, like losing a herd or cattle to a storm or something - they just keep moving forward and never look back - those kids are just "things" to them and now they are more trouble than they are worth so they'll just cut their losses and start over elsewhere. When it comes to choosing between religion and it's tenets and a living CHILD they prefer to abandon the CHILD/CHILDREN before betraying (as they see it) their husband and their "Prophet".

Tell me again how these ADULTS are not brainwashed and this is not a cult? Only those who fear the TRUTH and the REALITY more than they fear their leaders would leave a CHILD behind - and THAT is the very definition of brainwashed. It's sad for the children BUT I cannot help but feel they will survive and even THRIVE and have been mercifully spared and escaped a living hell with the FLDS CULT. They say that the children are closest to God and I think He is watching over these kids in a very special way - and I HOPE thru these kids, He will see that MORE will be rescued.

My Opinion
 
  • #616
Mysteri, I think everyone here speaks with a lot of assurance, don't you? We all have been able to read the same things. The link I read is the one in the San Angelo paper. When Angie Voss was asked

Can you identify any households in which a child was caused serious injury or death?

she replied "Yes"

she also said

"There were some suspected broken bones"


If we break this down logically, her answers are interesting. The first question asks about serious injury OR death. She answers "yes" There has been absolutely no one who has come forward saying there have been any deaths. So that leaves us with the other part of the question. As to her answer about "serious injury", if Angie Voss feels she is looking at evidence of child rape then she can logically answer that question yes. Which she did.

Her only requirement under law is that she has to have reason to suspect. Not proof....just a "reason". That reason could be a lot of things. It could be the blond hair found on the bed in the temple area. It could be a pregnant girl she saw in the compound. It could be practically anything. The only point is she HAD to say something made her decide to move the children and that is what she did. Her careful wording was evident once again when she was asked if any of the children had broken bones, injuries or malnutrition that showed up in medical examinations.

We know that when Dr's at Fort Concho examined the children they said the children were healthy, Dr. Smith in fact went so far as to say they were exceptionally healthy they had no injuries or malnutrition so she could not say yes to that part of the question so she answers "There were some suspected broken bones."

That was a good political answer. I could suspect my next door neighbor is from Mars but that has absolutely no validity and neither does her answer. As a matter of fact everything everyone BUT her has said about the children is exactly the opposite. Later when she is asked what the danger is to having the younger children returned she doesn't mention the "serious abuse" OR the "suspected" broken bones. Instead she says her concern is "a global pattern that underage marriage and children having children is permitted."

So she never does come right out and say there was ANY witnessed abuse of the younger children in any way. She is concerned about "future" abuse. That's it.

In any "juicy" trial or hearing there are ALWAYS leaks. That is just life. If there was any physical abuse noted with the young children we would have heard rumors flying like mad and we haven't. Instead we have been told by medical experts (which Ms Voss is not) that they are instead, exceptionally healthy. That is why I said above that there is no abuse of the young children at YFZ.


And your point is?! I tell you what, I am geting really tired at how you defend these people.
 
  • #617
Same here, I just don't get it.
 
  • #618
Angie Voss also testified that there was at least one underage mother in each of the 20 households. To me that means every child on the ranch was living in a home where a young girl was raped.
 
  • #619
Cheko...............I'd love to see the media get back into the YFZ ranch and this time ask the hard questions..........
1. Why are you refusing to identify yourselves and your children?
2. If you really want your children back, why won't you cooperate with the authorities?
3. Marilyn.........you gave a tour of your home. Where are the children's toys?
4. Where are the children's fathers? Don't they care about the children? Why won't they talk to anyone?

I bet those of us here at WS could come up with some good questions! :)
quote]

Yes Leila it would be mighty interesting.

I think they should be made to answer many of the questions. Guess we'll just have to wait until they go to trial. If they haven't headed for the hills & still in hiding that is!
 
  • #620
Mysteri, I think everyone here speaks with a lot of assurance, don't you? We all have been able to read the same things. The link I read is the one in the San Angelo paper. When Angie Voss was asked

Can you identify any households in which a child was caused serious injury or death?

she replied "Yes"

she also said

"There were some suspected broken bones"


If we break this down logically, her answers are interesting. The first question asks about serious injury OR death. She answers "yes" There has been absolutely no one who has come forward saying there have been any deaths. So that leaves us with the other part of the question. As to her answer about "serious injury", if Angie Voss feels she is looking at evidence of child rape then she can logically answer that question yes. Which she did.

Her only requirement under law is that she has to have reason to suspect. Not proof....just a "reason". That reason could be a lot of things. It could be the blond hair found on the bed in the temple area. It could be a pregnant girl she saw in the compound. It could be practically anything. The only point is she HAD to say something made her decide to move the children and that is what she did. Her careful wording was evident once again when she was asked if any of the children had broken bones, injuries or malnutrition that showed up in medical examinations.

We know that when Dr's at Fort Concho examined the children they said the children were healthy, Dr. Smith in fact went so far as to say they were exceptionally healthy they had no injuries or malnutrition so she could not say yes to that part of the question so she answers "There were some suspected broken bones."

That was a good political answer. I could suspect my next door neighbor is from Mars but that has absolutely no validity and neither does her answer. As a matter of fact everything everyone BUT her has said about the children is exactly the opposite. Later when she is asked what the danger is to having the younger children returned she doesn't mention the "serious abuse" OR the "suspected" broken bones. Instead she says her concern is "a global pattern that underage marriage and children having children is permitted."

So she never does come right out and say there was ANY witnessed abuse of the younger children in any way. She is concerned about "future" abuse. That's it.

In any "juicy" trial or hearing there are ALWAYS leaks. That is just life. If there was any physical abuse noted with the young children we would have heard rumors flying like mad and we haven't. Instead we have been told by medical experts (which Ms Voss is not) that they are instead, exceptionally healthy. That is why I said above that there is no abuse of the young children at YFZ.

There is nothing logical about ABUSE!! NOTHING.....Absolutely positively nothing!!!! SEXUAL ABUSE IS FLIPPING ABUSE!!!!!

Why don't you call waterboarding physical ABUSE??????
Maybe they need to dig up all the babies in the graves & see how each of them died. In Tx there were more then a average number of babies in graves according to Flora Jessop. How do you explain that?????

How damn much worse does it need to get????
 
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