Warren Jeffs FLDS compound in Texas surrounded by police #5

[Trino]

What a dictator huh????
All his wives will be looking at the neighbor men!!! LOL Serve the self centered azz right.

Don't you mean the neighbor men will be looking at Jeffs' women?

 

[cheko1]

Don't you mean the neighbor men will be looking at Jeffs' women?

Yes thats what I REALLY meant!

Warren probably locked them all up in chastity belts before he went to prison & the only key is in his manilla envelope!

 

[golfmom]

What a dictator huh????
All his wives will be looking at the neighbor men!!! LOL Serve the self centered azz right.

I'm still trying to recover from the shock that many of his wives were actually his "aunties" (i.e., his father's wives / his mothers).

 

[golfmom]

I stumbled upon the photos of Jeffs in his shorts and one if his mothers who turned into a wife in her levis.

 

[SewingDeb]

Texas appeals court cancels hearing on relocation of FLDS children

A Texas appellate court has canceled a hearing set for Tuesday that sought to challenge a district judge's decision to send children removed from a polygamous sect's ranch to group and foster homes throughout the state.
The Third Court of Appeals said Friday that Tom Green County Judge Barbara Walther's order to move the FLDS children beyond a five-county area met statutory requirements.
http://origin.sltrib.com/ci_9060445

From your link:

The court left intact a second petition filed by the legal aid society that argues the judge did not have sufficient evidence or hold proper hearings before deciding to keep the children in custody.

 

[Trino]

Golfmom, although it might be hard to see in the photo, it appears her hair isn't done in the correct style.

 

[SewingDeb]

Golfmom, although it might be hard to see in the photo, it appears her hair isn't done in the correct style.

She was on vacation...lol.

 

[southcitymom]

excellent article by the New York Times....very frank as to CPS, etc.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/26/u...123a7d4e41a7a8&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

Terrific article - thanks for posting.

 

[cheko1]

She was on vacation...lol.

Looks to me like they both were living the high life....they should post these pictures in the middle of the "TEMPLE"....he has kicked young guys out of the ranch for rolling there sleeves up. Yet he has the nerve to show LEGS!!!!!!!

She is allowed to wear JEANS & blouse. While the other gals wear long johns & the ugliest dresses on the planet, along with the hair dos. Wonder if it would cause a uprising????

Or would they be told to be SWEET!

 

[believe09]

I did a snip of this article because it specifically addresses the concerns raised on the board as to whether or not children were being harmed in ways beyond the "teen bride" issue:

"CPS officials have conceded there is no evidence the youngest children were abused, and about 130 of the children are under 5. Teenage boys were not physically or sexually abused either, according to evidence presented in a custody hearing earlier last week, but more than two dozen teenage boys are also in state custody, now staying at a boys' ranch that might typically house troubled or abandoned teens.
Two teenage girls are pregnant, and although identities and ages have been difficult to nail down, CPS officials say no more than 30 minor girls in state custody have children. It's not clear how many other adolescent girls may be among the children shipped to foster facilities."

At this point only infants who are still nursing are allowed to be with their mothers. So the state, which has a low threshold for removal according to the law sources I have been reading, has swept up and disrupted 400+ children for the now 10% or so (my number) who have been determined to be at risk. Hmmm...

Here is the link to the ap article...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080426/ap_on_re_us/polygamist_retreat;_ylt=AnNgOtBth2R9LSLbm41m27dvzwcF

 

[golfmom]

Golfmom, although it might be hard to see in the photo, it appears her hair isn't done in the correct style.

do you think she has her special underwear on?

 

[mollymalone]

Re: the Pentagon Contract-background checks are done on the companies and those running the company, but if there are no reports of criminal activity by the company or the persons, then their bid can be considered.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/33510.html
"A large portion of the awards were preferential no-bid or "sole source" contracts because of the company's classification as a small business, according to online databases that track federal government appropriations.
NewEra, previously known as Western Precision Inc. and located in Hildale, Utah, also received a $900,000 loan in 2005 from the federal Small Business Administration, the data show."

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/04/17/polygamy.pentagon/index.html
The companies have not been charged with wrongdoing. Pentagon spokesman Geoff Morrell emphasized that point. "The Department of Defense awards contracts on the basis of who can most effectively meet our requirements for supplies or services at the most reasonable cost to the taxpayer," he said. "We do not consider religious affiliation or marital status when selecting vendors, but illegal activity is certainly cause for termination of a contract and perhaps even debarment, which could prevent a contractor from doing business with department ever again." He added, "However, DoD is not aware of any criminal allegations against anyone managing the companies in question."

Bob Maginnis, a retired Army lieutenant colonel who now works with a contractor for the Pentagon, said the department does background checks before signing contracts. "The DoD is obviously abiding by the law, and if we want them to look deeper and discriminate on religious or other activities we need to tell them." But he added, "If there was a direct line between Jeffs and this company, and his name was associated with a contract, then that should have come to attention of those that were bidding contract." It's unclear whether Jeffs' name was on any contract, but other senior members of his church were managing the companies.

http://www.veteransforcommonsense.org/articleid/9827
"The president of Western Precision was Wendell Nielsen, described in multiple media accounts as a senior official in the FLDS religious sect" "Neilsen disappeared with church leader Warren Jeffs after Jeffs was put on the FBI's 10 Most Wanted list in 2003" "The records show that Western Precision continued to receive government contracts even after the well-publicized manhunt. And when Jeffs was captured in 2006, he was riding in an SUV registered to John C. Wayman, another Western Precision executive.""In an affidavit filed by Wendell Nielsen's son in a church-related court case, Western Precision gave the church up to $100,000 a month, a testament to the close ties between the manufacturing firm and the church itself."

 

[Trino]

do you think she has her special underwear on?

Yes - from Victoria's Secret.

 

[FlowerChild]

I did a snip of this article because it specifically addresses the concerns raised on the board as to whether or not children were being harmed in ways beyond the "teen bride" issue:

"CPS officials have conceded there is no evidence the youngest children were abused, and about 130 of the children are under 5. Teenage boys were not physically or sexually abused either, according to evidence presented in a custody hearing earlier last week, but more than two dozen teenage boys are also in state custody, now staying at a boys' ranch that might typically house troubled or abandoned teens.
Two teenage girls are pregnant, and although identities and ages have been difficult to nail down, CPS officials say no more than 30 minor girls in state custody have children. It's not clear how many other adolescent girls may be among the children shipped to foster facilities."

At this point only infants who are still nursing are allowed to be with their mothers. So the state, which has a low threshold for removal according to the law sources I have been reading, has swept up and disrupted 400+ children for the now 10% or so (my number) who have been determined to be at risk. Hmmm...

Here is the link to the ap article...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080426/ap_on_re_us/polygamist_retreat;_ylt=AnNgOtBth2R9LSLbm41m27dvzwcF

I don't think they have had time to determine the abuses beyond the obvious. They just got the children separated from the FLDS Moms recently and those kids aren't going to "open up" and talk right away. Kids which have endured HORRID abuse often are reluctant to "tell" and they haven't been raised from birth to accept it and "be sweet". The lawyers can't KNOW what abuses will be discovered as the children are interviewed. The kids don't know it's abuse for Daddy to waterboard the baby when it cries.

And I understand separating the little children from their older "siblings"....if the kids are actually siblings at all. The older kids are much better "trained" and can manipulate the younger ones in a setting where they live together. I can see the FLDS expecting the older girls to continue "training" the younger children, preventing investigators from getting factual information from the smaller children about abuses and "lifestyle". I know the 8-14 year old girls themselves probably have been abused, but they are also indoctrinated in the FLDS way and may see this as their chance to "marry the prophet" if they do well at controlling the little ones and the other girls. Girls are considered "mature" at AGE 8 in the FLDS World - so putting a dozen little ones in the same home with a "sweet" 12 year old would be like putting an FLDS MOM in the shelter WITH the children 24/7.

THE USUAL LOGIC AND RULES DO NOT APPLY HERE! In most cases a 12 year old girl would NOT be housed away from her siblings unless SHE was an alleged abuser herself - but in this case - she MAY BE an abuser without intent - by her acceptance of and belief in the abuse taught and encouraged by the multiple adults as a necessary part of the proper FLDS "life" and spiritual requirements to get into heaven. This is BRAINWASHING and these kids are indoctrinated to their CORE. They know NOTHING ELSE. How can we expect these children to even know right from wrong or truth from lies (as those apply in the REAL WORLD) - they have no exposure to books, school, TV, radio, internet or even a routine Dr visit. These kids have been raised in isolation from EVERYTHING except the twisted FLDS Way - and oh my, culture shock is an understatement. When is the last time that CPS had to go about teaching 450 kids who a "Mommy" and "Daddy" are, or not to lie to anyone not wearing a prairie dress, or how to use a crayon or a ball?

There is NO WAY they are gonna let these kids away from supervision before the DNA is in...because they don't even know WHO TO RELEASE THE KIDS TO!! And they are still investigating CRIMES and ABUSE by the MEN against underage girls - TX isn't going to start turning kids back until those possible charges are fully investigated because the RELATIONSHIPS inside the FLDS are so convoluted that they MIGHT be giving a child back to his/her mother in good faith and then LATER find that Mom was actually "sealed" to the WORST of the abusers.

This is (in the words of GW Bush) going to be a LONG LONG LONG "process". There will be no "mission accomplished" banners flying this year. We will have to be patient and it's going to be expensive and it's going to be frustrating and we will be in turn angry and shocked and it is going to be hard on the kids. Many kids will be saved, but there will be collateral damage too and some innocent people will be hurt (hopefully not too badly tho). Every SINGLE RULE of the game no longer applies here - this isn't just a different game or one with different rules, it's a game being played in outer space with ALIENS. Just thinking about the possible twists and turns in this ALREADY makes my HEAD HURT!

We must all remember when thinking about this that everything we think, everything we know, everything we believe IS NOT APPLICABLE HERE. Every road we usually go down to seek some logic, some sense, some resolution or solution is going to smack us into a brick wall. I believe THAT is why this has taken so LONG to shine the light of truth on the FLDS - it's hard for the "masses" to accept that such a group exists and it's going to be SO HARD to educate society at large about the depth of control and "training" the FLDS Leaders had over these people and "their children". I can hear the FLDS lawyers now - arguing that "it just can't be" the way the CPS said it is - you know - "come on now...you expect us to believe that Ms CPS Investigator?" They'll look around the courtroom and roll their eyes as if to say to the gallery - "wink winK' that "can't" be the way it is and we all know it...right"?

Do NOT BE FOOLED - they are counting on us "dumb infidels" to fall for the morality play they are putting on and swallow their line of BS - just like we've been doing. THEY ARE ASKING US TO "BE SWEET" - and I for one, am not feeling very "sweet at all!

My Opinion

 

[mollymalone]

SNIP
We must all remember when thinking about this that everything we think, everything we know, everything we believe IS NOT APPLICABLE HERE. Every road we usually go down to seek some logic, some sense, some resolution or solution is going to smack us into a brick wall. I believe THAT is why this has taken so LONG to shine the light of truth on the FLDS - it's hard for the "masses" to accept that such a group exists and it's going to be SO HARD to educate society at large about the depth of control and "training" the FLDS Leaders had over these people and "their children". I can hear the FLDS lawyers now - arguing that "it just can't be" the way the CPS said it is - you know - "come on now...you expect us to believe that Ms CPS Investigator?" They'll look around the courtroom and roll their eyes as if to say to the gallery - "wink winK' that "can't" be the way it is and we all know it...right"?

Do NOT BE FOOLED - they are counting on us "dumb infidels" to fall for the morality play they are putting on and swallow their line of BS - just like we've been doing. THEY ARE ASKING US TO "BE SWEET" - and I for one, am not feeling very "sweet at all!

My Opinion

I've forgotten who said the quote but it went something along the lines of "give me your children and they're mine for life." It's very apt quotation within this sect. Indoctrination from birth onwards leaves scars in grown women who've run from the flds, it's only to be expected that in these young children there will be as well. All of the accounts I've read about, those who left, male or female have required intensive counseling for years to get over the effects of the indoctrination they'd experienced.
Since the children have been removed at a younger age they will likely be more resilient and adapt better with counseling, but even so, those older children are going to need more counseling than the others.

 

[mollymalone]

I was incorrect, I thought I'd read somewhere that Wisan was a former flds member but he is not.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/33510.html
"Although Jeffs is now behind bars, sect members still consider him their leader and prophet, said Bruce Wisan, a nonmember appointed by the state of Utah to replace Jeffs as manager of a the FLDS' trust. Established in 1942 to "preserve and advance the religious doctrines" of the church, it is now estimated to be worth between $100 million and $150 million.
Under Jeffs' direction, Wisan said, sect households are required to tithe at least 10 percent of their gross income to the church, plus an extra $1,000 a month."

 

[Leila]

Truly, I'm not through the whole thread yet ... as soon as I get a chance I try to sleuth it out. The name of the party who purchased the property is in one of our threads. I remember it had been published in the little Eldorado newspaper.

If I remember correctly, there was a man named David Steed Allred who purchased the property in Colorado, with the same reason - a corporate hunting retreat. I think David Steed Allred was involved in the purchase of the YFZ ranch.

Edited to add.............oops.....I was reading and replying to the posts as I read them. I saw that you have the same information - David Steed Allred.

 

[Leila]

I think Jeffs is still "the man," although it's difficult to use the term "man." It's my understanding he's ruling the roost from prison.

I have no doubt that Warren Jeffs is still in charge. I think he's got a lot of second in command guys that are answerable to him, running the various communities.

When Marilyn Jeffs was giving that tour of her home, Warren Jeffs picture was everywhere. But, in the kitchen on the wall behind the long dining table was a group of about a dozen pictures of men. I wonder if those were pictures of the top leaders of the FLDS.

 

[golfmom]

I was incorrect, I thought I'd read somewhere that Wisan was a former flds member but he is not.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/33510.html
"Although Jeffs is now behind bars, sect members still consider him their leader and prophet, said Bruce Wisan, a nonmember appointed by the state of Utah to replace Jeffs as manager of a the FLDS' trust. Established in 1942 to "preserve and advance the religious doctrines" of the church, it is now estimated to be worth between $100 million and $150 million.
Under Jeffs' direction, Wisan said, sect households are required to tithe at least 10 percent of their gross income to the church, plus an extra $1,000 a month."

I knew that he was appointed by the judge and was not a member of FLDS, but shocked at the disparity of treatment between the lost boys and child brides.

 

[mollymalone]

I knew that he was appointed by the judge and was not a member of FLDS, but shocked at the disparity of treatment between the lost boys and child brides.

I believe he did see to it that a woman who was kicked out kept her house. I think there will be a large number of the women who file or have filed against the trust that until there's a thorough investigation of the money that the claims won't be settled. I think his main goal at the moment is to track the money, and to restore the homes to those flds or former flds members who were forced to place their homes/equity etc.. into the trust. He's also selling off properties and companies and removing them from the control of Jeffs cronies. After that will come the claims from those former members who lodge claims against the trust. Until there's more information about the entire situation I'll cut him some slack about disparity. He's got a tangled task to perform. I also believe that it's not going to be just him making the decisions about who gets what from the trust since the state is ultimately in control of it and those claims will probably end up in court and decided by a judge.