Warren Jeffs FLDS compound in Texas surrounded by police #5

[Native New Yorker]

SAN ANTONIO — "Workers at the Children’s Shelter on this city’s gritty west side began this week to remove anything and everything colored red from the walls, the floors, even from their clothes.

The shelter’s president, Jack Downey, said he was not sure, exactly, what was wrong with red, only that state officials had told him to get rid of it in preparing for the children of a fundamentalist polygamy sect who would be coming his way as their odyssey through the Texas child welfare system began.
But getting the red out is only the beginning. Forget bologna and white bread for lunch, too. Because the children, from the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or F.L.D.S., have never eaten processed foods, the new shelter mantra is whole grains and fresh vegetables. Because they have never been to public school, the equivalent of home schooling will be established in shelters. Because they have never watched television, televisions will remain off."


"State officials and some other child welfare experts say Texas was right to throw out the old best-practice playbook in this instance. Group shelters, they say, will allow the children to support and reinforce one another through the inevitable trauma of separation and transition. A traditional middle-class foster home, they say, would be even more of a shock to an F.L.D.S. child, especially because many such homes in Texas are run by religiously minded Baptists and Presbyterians."

 

[Native New Yorker]

And yes, this article does mention that CPS has a bad track record, and that FLDS sympathizers do not like the whole situation, etc....
but all in all, this is a pretty balanced article...
Unless someone else can instantly come up with a system to rescue mistreated and abused children, we have to work with what we have.....

 

[mollymalone]

I found another reference to the eight others who were charged last year about the time Jeffs was.

http://www.childbrides.org/control_KVOA_Warrens_transport_still_pending.html

In additional to the criminal charges, Jeffs has been named in multiple civil lawsuits dating back to 2004, but he has failed to defend himself, or even appear in court, in any of those cases, choosing instead to go into hiding. None of those cases have gone forward in his absence, but remain pending.

Barlow is one of eight FLDS men charged in Arizona with felony crimes for alleged sexual activity with underage girls they took as "spiritual wives." He is charged with two counts of sexual assault for his spiritual marriage to Shapley when she was 16. Once considered a willing witness, Shapley balked in court after pressure from her mother and others. A judge found Shapley in contempt of court and the case is now stalled. "Her mother and father, the people she loves the most are going to be giving her pressure."

Also, Jeffs is facing federal charges: http://www.austinchronicle.com/gyrobase/Issue/story?oid=oid%3A458465
"even if the state charges fail, Jeffs will face a federal charge of unlawful flight to avoid prosecution, indicted by a federal grand jury last week in connection with the months Jeffs spent on the lam last year, traveling from state to state to evade arrest on the Utah and Arizona rape-related charges. The federal charge carries a possible punishment of five years in the federal slammer and a $250,000 fine."

 

[Leila]

I don't know about others here, but this case just has me boiling. The men & women of the FLDS all need prosecuted for this mess.

I'm sick & tired of hearing about them & there rights being violated. The lawyer said in above article the state lied, when stating siblings would be kept together. One family had 13 & were seperated. I say to him.......nobody in there right damn minds should have 13 kids. Both the mother & father should of been made to be sterilized! In this day & age NOBODY can afford to feed that many kids ot give them a decent education.

We know they don't waste money on the kids, toys, education or clothes. We know they throw the boys away like grabage. They molest & rape young girls. They're kept prisoners at the ranch.

Now the parents are crying our RIGHTS are violated. What are they thinking? We went over & bombed Iraq for the country being run by a mad man / today we have the same thing in our country at the FLDS ranch.
:bang:

I'd love to see each and every man who is guilty of a crime in the FLDS prosecuted. There's first and foremost the abuse of the children. But, they've broken other laws too, and should be prosecuted for all.

I read an article yesterday that was disturbing. The article said that one reason the children are being kept together in group homes is that the goal is to eventually return the children to their parents.

I don't feel the children should be returned to their parents unless the parents are de-programmed and understand that what's best for the children comes before any edict from their leader/prophet. The women need to understand that they have rights and are expected to protect their children from harm. The men and women of the FLDS should be made to undergo counseling and parenting classes in addition to de-programming. In other words, the FLDS needs to be completely reformed from within before it can be considered a safe environment for children.

 

[Floh]

:clap: :clap: :clap: I agree wholeheartedly. I hope when we get a forum, all of FlowerChild's posts so far can have an entire thread, as she has so eloquently taken what so many here are feeling, and has put it into precisely the right words. :clap: :clap: :clap:

For reasons best known to themselves, i think we are whistling in the wind to hope for a forum from the mods, unfortunately.

 

[FlowerChild]

I have no doubt that Warren Jeffs is still in charge. I think he's got a lot of second in command guys that are answerable to him, running the various communities.

When Marilyn Jeffs was giving that tour of her home, Warren Jeffs picture was everywhere. But, in the kitchen on the wall behind the long dining table was a group of about a dozen pictures of men. I wonder if those were pictures of the top leaders of the FLDS.

It's the "Prophet" and his "Apostles". And yes, they are the leaders of the FLDS. The regular men are all the "Priesthood" and they are being "guided" by the Prophet and Apostles - and of COURSE you would want these men looking down on you and the women and the children at every opportunity...so as to foster that whole "being sweet" thing.

It's strikes me as so funny - usually girls have posters of their "crushes" up - you know, pictures of musicians or actors on their walls. Like the Jonas Brothers or the boys in High School Musical. And here, who do the girls have on their walls to "crush on"? A bunch of (mostly) OLD MEN - and that ugly, creepy pasty looking Warren JEFFS! And the SICKEST PART? That it's very possible that these girls will end up "married" to one of the men on the wall and having a baby with him before she is 18 - if she is "sweet enough".

Outside the FLDS Church Warren Jeffs couldn't even even DREAM of getting ONE attractive young girl to LOOK at him without disgust - and how "nice" he has managed to set himself up so that he gets 1st pick of ALL the available women/girls - even the ones that are "married" to someone else already. That worm has more than 60 WIVES!

I do not understand how ANYONE could look at the situation and not see that this whole organization is set up for the exclusive benefit of a bunch of creeps and losers that in the "real world" couldn't get a DOG to follow them without a burger in their pocket - and there they are with a HAREM and women gathered around them like they are some kind of rock star.

And we must note that Warren Jeffs forbids ALL nudity (even during sex, both must be clothed) in his followers and has them all dressed in layers of special clothing that they cannot remove EVER - but when HE is arrested he isn't dressed that way, his "wife" isn't dressed that way and they are leaving Las Vegas with $50K in cash in a RED luxury SUV. You don't think that his "rules" might be just a little self-serving do you? Funny how the supposed rejection of the "infidel world" and the blind adherence to the faith and all the trappings goes right out the window when it's his AZZ on the line! I guess God "excused" him and his buddies from the rules because of the "persecution"? His FOLLOWERS must follow the rules and have 30 wives and do all the "sweet" crap because of the STRONG religious convictions and they are so ignorant that they don't know what is "right" or normal in the world but HE certainly had no problem "faking" the normal when following his own FAITH might get him caught and thrown in JAIL.

IMO, it's either you're living your faith and conviction, or you are NOT - you can't be picking and choosing when to believe by whether it's convenient to you or "easy" for you. Either God has said you MUST dress this way and live this way and reject the "infidel" ways --- OR NOT. Which is it Warren?

My Opinion

 

[mollymalone]

http://www.austinchronicle.com/gyrobase/Issue/story?oid=oid:458465

"on March 2, a Utah state judge ordered Jeffs and other FLDS leaders to pay an $8.8 million judgment to the FLDS' United Effort Plan Trust, designed to hold the wealth of all FLDS members. The trust was taken over, and the state appointed a special fiduciary to review its assets after evidence suggested Jeffs and his cronies were raiding its assets. The FLDS leaders who are named trustees failed to respond to a lawsuit filed by court-appointed fiduciary Bruce Wisan, the Deseret Morning News reports, prompting the court to enter the multimillion-dollar judgment. Whether Wisan will be able to collect the funds and restore the trust is unknown: Shortly after Wisan took over, entire buildings, along with farm equipment and other tangible assets, began disappearing from the FLDS stronghold known as Short Creek, twin towns straddling the Arizona-Utah border. The UEP is land-rich, with about $110 million in assets, but cash-poor – indeed, most of the cash has reportedly disappeared, as have the UEP trustees."

 

[Leila]

I stumbled upon the photos of Jeffs in his shorts and one if his mothers who turned into a wife in her levis.

Fantastic find Golfmom!!! Where's the special protective underwear? And Naomi doesn't have her hair done up in the braids/bun.

Some enterprising person could make up a thousand of these pictures, along with pictures of the red Cadilac Escolade, and all the junk he had packed in that vehicle, and drop it from a helicopter over the YFZ ranch.

 

[Leila]

I did a snip of this article because it specifically addresses the concerns raised on the board as to whether or not children were being harmed in ways beyond the "teen bride" issue:

"CPS officials have conceded there is no evidence the youngest children were abused, and about 130 of the children are under 5. Teenage boys were not physically or sexually abused either, according to evidence presented in a custody hearing earlier last week, but more than two dozen teenage boys are also in state custody, now staying at a boys' ranch that might typically house troubled or abandoned teens.
Two teenage girls are pregnant, and although identities and ages have been difficult to nail down, CPS officials say no more than 30 minor girls in state custody have children. It's not clear how many other adolescent girls may be among the children shipped to foster facilities."

At this point only infants who are still nursing are allowed to be with their mothers. So the state, which has a low threshold for removal according to the law sources I have been reading, has swept up and disrupted 400+ children for the now 10% or so (my number) who have been determined to be at risk. Hmmm...

Here is the link to the ap article...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080426/ap_on_re_us/polygamist_retreat;_ylt=AnNgOtBth2R9LSLbm41m27dvzwcF

Since that article was written, the authorities have found an additional 25 girls, who at first said they were adults, but admitted they lied and are actually minors. Many of them are pregnant. Just yesterday, authorities stated that they have evidence of widespread systemic abuse.

I don't think they've even begun to uncover all the abuses. I think it's going to be some time down the road when we learn the extent of the abuse. And when the DNA is completed, I think there's going to be children who have no biological parents that live at the YFZ ranch. These are going to be those children who Warren Jeffs separated from their biological parent and sent them alone to Texas.

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

For reasons best known to themselves, i think we are whistling in the wind to hope for a forum from the mods, unfortunately.

Actually no, this is untrue, I have spoken with the mods, The seperate forum takes time to set up, and they promise me they are working on it.

 

[believe09]

Since that article was written, the authorities have found an additional 25 girls, who at first said they were adults, but admitted they lied and are actually minors. Many of them are pregnant. Just yesterday, authorities stated that they have evidence of widespread systemic abuse.

I don't think they've even begun to uncover all the abuses. I think it's going to be some time down the road when we learn the extent of the abuse. And when the DNA is completed, I think there's going to be children who have no biological parents that live at the YFZ ranch. These are going to be those children who Warren Jeffs separated from their biological parent and sent them alone to Texas.

hmmm, the date of the article is 4/26 at 649am...

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

Lawyers: 2 sect kids missing

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008/apr/26/lawyers-2-sect-kids-missing/

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

http://www.reporternews.com/news/2008/apr/25/for-now-a-new-home/

Some FLDS children brought to Abilene

"We have to work with them, build up their trust," he said, over the sounds of the children playing on the facility's playground.
"They love the playground," Miller said. "Their eyes got as big as saucers when they got off the bus and saw the playground."
Their favorite playground equipment?
"They're most interested in the slides and monkey bars," Miller said. "They are having fun."

 

[Floh]

Actually no, this is untrue, I have spoken with the mods, The seperate forum takes time to set up, and they promise me they are working on it.

Fingers crossed!

 

[mollymalone]

http://www.reporternews.com/news/2008/apr/25/for-now-a-new-home/

Some FLDS children brought to Abilene

"We have to work with them, build up their trust," he said, over the sounds of the children playing on the facility's playground.
"They love the playground," Miller said. "Their eyes got as big as saucers when they got off the bus and saw the playground."
Their favorite playground equipment?
"They're most interested in the slides and monkey bars," Miller said. "They are having fun."

Did you see the part about possible visitation if he court orders it? "Finances are not a problem for the YFZ parents"

"It is unclear whether YFZ parents will come to Abilene to visit their children or if the children will be taken back to San Angelo. CPS will usually help parents visit their children by obtaining bus passes for them or arranging rides, Henley said. If groups of siblings are separated, it could make visitation for the parents more difficult, she said, adding that finances are not a problem for the YFZ parents.

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

Did you see the part about possible visitation if he court orders it? "Finances are not a problem for the YFZ parents"

"It is unclear whether YFZ parents will come to Abilene to visit their children or if the children will be taken back to San Angelo. CPS will usually help parents visit their children by obtaining bus passes for them or arranging rides, Henley said. If groups of siblings are separated, it could make visitation for the parents more difficult, she said, adding that finances are not a problem for the YFZ parents.

Yep, makes you go hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!

 

[Leila]

hmmm, the date of the article is 4/26 at 649am...

You're right............I went back and re-read the article/date. I originally thought it was an earlier article.

There seems to be a conflict between all the media reports. In the past week, there was a report of 10 girls pregnant, with at least two others who have given birth since removal from the YFZ ranch. Then there was another article that stated there were 18 pregnant girls who were underage. And yesterday it was reported that there's now an additional 25 girls, first listed as adults.

It's getting confusing exactly how many are underage and pregnant. And all the media are reputable media sources.

 

[mollymalone]

I believe each of the women who left should be compensated in some fashion by the flds and I believe that means if they have to sell off those compounds, breaking them up into individual plots, properties and businesses etc. then so be it. But I do see Wisan's point, there are others responsible for her marriage including her own family.

I think Wisan's other point is that the people who paid into the trust were not the administrators such as Rulon, Warren or the other leaders, and that going after the trust is going after the people who paid their earnings into it or had their homes made a part of it, and not those who were really responsible. This was Dec 2007 so it's probably still in litigation.

Elissa Wall's lawsuit against the Jeffs and the trust widened.
http://www.wwrn.org/article.php?idd=27085&con=4&sec=26
"In an amended complaint filed Monday in 3rd District Court, Elissa Wall alleges that Jeffs, the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, trustees and participants in its United Effort Plan Trust all knew about such illegal marriages but did nothing to stop them. Wisan said if she succeeds, Wall will decimate the trust and pave the way for other teen brides to make similar claims. "We don't feel the trust has any liability whatsoever and we think it is a real stretch for them to include the trust because somebody was living in [one of its houses]," Wisan said. "It's hurting the trust and it's hurting the people." The trust "won't take the brunt of her allegations," he said. "The trust will turn around and sue her mother, her sisters, possibly her father and others who had a hand in and promoted her marriage."

 

[LinasK]

I'd love to see each and every man who is guilty of a crime in the FLDS prosecuted. There's first and foremost the abuse of the children. But, they've broken other laws too, and should be prosecuted for all.

I read an article yesterday that was disturbing. The article said that one reason the children are being kept together in group homes is that the goal is to eventually return the children to their parents.

I don't feel the children should be returned to their parents unless the parents are de-programmed and understand that what's best for the children comes before any edict from their leader/prophet. The women need to understand that they have rights and are expected to protect their children from harm. The men and women of the FLDS should be made to undergo counseling and parenting classes in addition to de-programming. In other words, the FLDS needs to be completely reformed from within before it can be considered a safe environment for children.

I completely agree with you Leila!:clap::clap::clap:

 

[Leila]

http://www.reporternews.com/news/2008/apr/25/for-now-a-new-home/

Some FLDS children brought to Abilene

"We have to work with them, build up their trust," he said, over the sounds of the children playing on the facility's playground.
"They love the playground," Miller said. "Their eyes got as big as saucers when they got off the bus and saw the playground."
Their favorite playground equipment?
"They're most interested in the slides and monkey bars," Miller said. "They are having fun."

It's so good to know that these kids are enjoying the playground equipment! I would hazard a guess that they've never had the experience of swings, slides, monkey bars, etc. The report that the kids are having fun, is a good indicator that they are feeling more comfortable with their surroundings.