Warren Jeffs FLDS compound in Texas surrounded by police

[Glow]

Technically they are going overboard to protect the women and children.

Hi mysteriew!

I would say it goes way more than technically. The government has an ideal situation in which to use force, violate rights as well as due process, and the American people are behind them because innocent children are involved. I am as much for saving children as they are but I cant pretend I don't see what is happening here.

Food for thought...once we "allow" our government to do this?

Who is next?

 

[SuziQ]

If it's an investigative process, I don't know that anyone's rights have been violated...yet. My hope is that everything is being done by the book and it doesn't hurt any possible prosecutions in the process. I can't even go there yet I'm so boggled with the latest numbers I've posted!

 

[sherri79]

Hi mysteriew!

I would say it goes way more than technically. The government has an ideal situation in which to use force, violate rights as well as due process, and the American people are behind them because innocent children are involved. I am as much for saving children as they are but I cant pretend I don't see what is happening here.

Food for thought...once we "allow" our government to do this?

Who is next?

can we make suggestions? the government has always violated the rights of the people. the government must balance the rights of individual people against the rights of the public. the government can jail a witness to ensure they show for trial if they can show the interest of the public out weighs the interest of the individual. the government can force you to come to court and testify against your own child. if you refuse they can jail you for simply not speaking to them in court.

i agree we must always watch the government to make sure they do not cross the line. sometimes we fall down on the job. in this case i see what the government is doing as reasonable. these perverts have hidden behind the law while they break it right in front of us. they claim freedoms while they deprive their children of freedom. they sexually abuse young girls and say it is a god given right. for too long they have dared the government to stop them. for too long the government has allowed this abuse to continue.

in this case the anger i have for our government is based on the fact they have let these abuses continue too long.

 

[sherri79]

If it's an investigative process, I don't know that anyone's rights have been violated...yet. My hope is that everything is being done by the book and it doesn't hurt any possible prosecutions in the process. I can't even go there yet I'm so boggled with the latest numbers I've posted!

suzi i want to take this chance to thank you for the work you have done on this thread. thank you for keeping us updated on this. :blowkiss:

 

[Glow]

These poor people are without their leader since he is in jail (deservedly) and it seems the substitute leadership wasn't able to hold things together. The group appears to be fragmenting rapidly now doesn't it? I bet most of these women are GLAD to be "taken" away.

I still feel that something's wrong here. I understand that will be completely buried under the "obvious" good however.

For now.

 

[barb0301]

Exactly how is it that an armored vehicle can enter w/o a legally authorized search warrant? Has that happened?

Hi Glow,

This is a story that I'm really interested in, and was happy to answer. I think these are all questions that need to be asked, and I hope LE is doing all they can to go "by the book". From news accounts that I have been reading, the calls from the 16 yo came in on Mar 29 / 30. LE and CPS then spent the next several days planning their moves and talking to a judge. They did get a search warrant / arrest warrant, etc.

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008/apr/06/teens-calls-led-to-raid-search/

"The search warrant instructed officers to look for marriage records or other evidence linking her to the man and the baby. The warrant authorized the seizure of computer drives, CDs, DVDs or photos." from the following link: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/P/POLYGAMIST_RETREAT?SITE=TXSAE&SECTION=US&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

After CPS talked to the children, they felt that they were in danger and needed to be removed. They do not need a warrant for emergency removal, but do need a hearing to be held very quickly, (I personally know this from my experience of being a foster parent in TX for over 15 years ), which will be done early this week. When they removed the children, I was glad to see that they allowed mothers to accompany them. At some point in the investigation, they felt it necessary to remove all children from the compound.

The fact that they found children in the temple, being hidden, really concerns me. Why were they being hidden?

Right now, it seems as if they are doing all possible to keep as many of the women and children together as they can. They have moved them to Ft. Stockton, where they can house them together, keep them somewhat out of the limelight, and conduct interviews in privacy. They can also provide the services that they feel are necessary such as medical, etc. For that, I am exceptionally grateful. These children are going through an extremely traumatic time and don't need the media spotlight on them in addition.

I am glad that no violence has broken out. This very easily could have turned into a very tragic event and lives could have been lost.

 

[SuziQ]

Interesting discussion going on at KSL.Com. My experience is people here love the govt and hate the FLDS to a fault. But you wouldn't know that by most of the posts. They feel the same way I'm beginning to feel....What on heavens earth is really going on here? I'm even beginning to wonder if the 16 year old really exists. Sure someone may have made that call and the situation may be true several times over there. But they might be looking for someone who doesn't exist. As some have posted at the below link "something stinks here".

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=3022473&comments=true

 

[Glow]

I agree with you Barb. I am in a funny place right now with this. By that I mean that I think if I were one of these women or children I would want to be "rescued". I also agree that LE is being as politically appropriate as they can be. This is no Waco incident (thank goodness) but like I said above...these are people who are not popular and exist on the fringe of our society. If their rights are being violated (even for their immediate relief) then who is next?

 

[Glow]

Thanks for the link Suzi!

 

[Glow]

After reading that link I was amazed at how many times people thought the government was "over reaching".

Interesting choice of words.

 

[philamena]

Hi mysteriew!

I would say it goes way more than technically. The government has an ideal situation in which to use force, violate rights as well as due process, and the American people are behind them because innocent children are involved. I am as much for saving children as they are but I cant pretend I don't see what is happening here.

Food for thought...once we "allow" our government to do this?

Who is next?

Hi Glow,
Are you saying that you'd rather due process be followed while children are left at the compound?

It's not like the govt said-hey let's go climb in a bunch of big ole armored vehicles and threaten people.

There's a reason so many children are being removed from the compound and I don't think we've heard the whole story. I wouldn't be a bit surprised to hear about possible sexual abuse.

 

[Truly]

Hi mysteriew!

I would say it goes way more than technically. The government has an ideal situation in which to use force, violate rights as well as due process, and the American people are behind them because innocent children are involved. I am as much for saving children as they are but I cant pretend I don't see what is happening here.

Food for thought...once we "allow" our government to do this?

Who is next?

What do you see happening here, Glow?

I see a cult with armed guards wearing night vision goggles preventing anyone from entering or exiting. I see aged pedophiles forcing young girls to break the laws of the State of Texas by forcing them to marry their own fathers and uncles before the girls have even reached the age of legal consent.

I see busloads of young girls. What has become of all the young boys? I have read that the boys are taken and dropped off in the desert so that the creepy old pedophiles can rape and impregnate all of the young girls without any young men around to interfere. I have read that they expel the young boys and only permit them to return when they have brought back their own 'first wife' from the 'outside world'. I read that the pedophile-in-chief can then expel the young man again and 'reassign' his new wife and her children to one of the creepy old pedophiles.

What exactly bothers you about this? Is it the fact that the Pedophile Cult calls itself a 'religion'?

I am all about civil liberties. But this is a case of pedophiles holding children in armed compounds for the purpose of using them as sexual slaves. Nothing could be done to help the kids until someone who was harmed came forth. Then the warrants were issued and the search proceeded according to law.

What precedent are you concerned about setting here? Did you object when Shawn Hornbeck was rescued from his sexually abusive captor? To me, it is similar. The kids cannot escape on their own, and they deserve to be rescued from pedophiles.

 

[philamena]

Truly,
Hey there....
Great post btw!:clap: :clap:

 

[SuziQ]

All I can say at this point, is tomorrow it's going to be very interesting in a courthouse in El Dorado. The story behind this is gonna be interesting to say the least.

 

[philamena]

I can't wait to hear what's really going on.

 

[Glow]

Hi Glow,
Are you saying that you'd rather due process be followed while children are left at the compound?

It's not like the govt said-hey let's go climb in a bunch of big ole armored vehicles and threaten people.

There's a reason so many children are being removed from the compound and I don't think we've heard the whole story. I wouldn't be a bit surprised to hear about possible sexual abuse.

I guess perhaps I am. What I mean is whatever is wrong at that compound was wrong the day before the 16 year old called. LE knew that there were things wrong...heck the whole town knew..that is one reason they are coming out in support with blankets and food and so on.

I would never condone children being abused, but if we move away from that hot button issue for just a moment, what does it mean when one phone call can bring an armored vehicle on to your property? What is that?

Let me state again that I dont disagree with rescuing the women and children who are involved. I am only trying to open a discussion about what role the government plays in this.

 

[barb0301]

I agree with you Barb. I am in a funny place right now with this. By that I mean that I think if I were one of these women or children I would want to be "rescued". I also agree that LE is being as politically appropriate as they can be. This is no Waco incident (thank goodness) but like I said above...these are people who are not popular and exist on the fringe of our society. If their rights are being violated (even for their immediate relief) then who is next?

I guess I'm still confused about why their rights might be being violated? Seems to me that all the right things are being done. Like you, I would want to be "rescued" too, and would want my children out of there.

I guess I'm always one of those that when in regards to children and their safety, I will always err on the side of caution. Having been a foster parent, I know what not doing so can mean. If all I am reading about how LE and CPS is handling this is true, then I give them all a huge round of :clap: for going above and beyond. Like I've said in a previous post, they did not have to allow the mothers to leave with the kids, but they did. It is being reported that the mothers left willingly. At this point, I have absolutely, no reason, none whatsoever, to question what CPS, LE and the judge have done. I think they are doing what should have been done when issues like this were reported in other states where FLDS has compounds. I think this is the first time it has been reported since YFZ ranch opened up in Eldorado, here in TX. :clap: :clap: :clap: to the authorities.

If authorities had not done this type of thing (although on a much smaller scale), for my kids several years ago, they may not be alive today. I may not have 13 wonderful grandchildren. The scale of this particular investigation makes it seem "different". It's not.

Again, jmho - it's not about me, not about you, it's all about the kids.

 

[SuziQ]

The positive thing about this situation is the ability for women and their kids to get out. Many mothers do want to leave the polygamist sects. But rarely can do so and take their kids. They lose in court too. They have no education, no job that pays enough to support their kids and the kids are usually awarded to their fathers. So I hope that moms take this opp to flee.

 

[barb0301]

I found this timeline:

A look at how events have transpired in Schleicher County in recent days.

• March 29 - A 16-year-old girl calls authorities, saying she is calling from inside the YFZ Ranch and is the mother of an 8-month-old child whose father is 50. She calls again March 30.
• March 31 - The Texas Department of Family and Protective Services receives a referral describing possible abuse at the YFZ Ranch, which is owned by the polygamist Fundamental Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, based on the girl's call. The department's Child Protective Services agency begins investigating.
• Concurrently, law enforcement working with CPS begins planning a raid on the FLDS compound to remove the girl and investigate whether additional abuse has occurred.
• Thursday - At 5:30 p.m., 51st District Judge Barbara Walther, whose judicial district comprises Runnels, Schleicher and Tom Green counties and is based in San Angelo, signs a search-and-arrest warrant authorizing officials to search the ranch for the girl, for any documents tying her to her alleged husband, and for the man himself - identified as Dale Barlow. Officials enter the ranch shortly thereafter.
• 2:45 p.m. Friday - Two buses filled with women and children leave the ranch - the first two of several busloads to remove residents from the ranch.
• 4:55 p.m. Friday - Walther releases the warrant, which details the reasons for the raid. Shortly after, CPS and Texas Department of Public Safety officials announce they have removed 52 children from the ranch and have placed 18 in state custody.
• 3:30 p.m. Saturday - CPS announces it has removed an additional 131 women and children since the previous day for a total of 183 people, of whom 137 are children.
• 7 p.m. Saturday - The Standard-Times reports that ambulances have entered the ranch as authorities prepare to forcibly enter the compound's temple, to which FLDS followers had been denying access.
• 10:15 p.m. Saturday - Another busload of women and children is removed from the ranch, bringing the total number past 200.
• Between 10:30 and 11:30 p.m. Saturday - Texas Rangers and other law enforcement agencies enter the temple; no violence or injuries occur.

• Sunday afternoon - 219 women and children previously removed from the ranch are shuttled to Fort Concho National Historic Landmark in San Angelo. Searches by CPS and by law enforcement for children and possible evidence, respectively, are ongoing.

 

[barb0301]

I
I would never condone children being abused, but if we move away from that hot button issue for just a moment, what does it mean when one phone call can bring an armored vehicle on to your property? What is that?.

The armored vehicles were brought in when it became apparent that there may become a time when a standoff occurred over the LE entering the temple. At that point SWAT was brought in and things were very tense. There was no telling how it was going to go. By not allowing them to search the temple, they were in violation of a court ordered search warrant. It eventually ended peacefully, with the SWAT guys using the Jaws of Life to enter the Temple, but it could have been so much worse.

So the armored car came only when the occupants of the compound began to threaten non-compliance with the court ordered search warrant.