Was Burke involved?

[questfortrue]

Does anyone remember reading about the mother of Burkes best school friend's child? They flew with the Ramsey's and mom took on the role of sitter for both boys during the funeral. He was brought along to occupy Burke.

The mother witnessed a conversation between the two boys, Burke and her son, discussing strangulation as if it were a new video game.
This upset her do much she shared it with another of the Ramsey's friends. Iirc it was the Fernies.


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It's in Kolar's book. And it was shared by SS, mother of BR's best friend. It was BR and his best friend discussing this very impersonally, as though it were a TV show. This occurred on Dec. 28 (Saturday) after grief counseling at the school.

If one doesn't have any training in psychology or psychiatry, and doesn't know who BR was as a child, what we have to rely on are the reports included in Kolar's book, and some additional insights about BR from family friends. It was noted by the DSS psychologist that BR had a flat affect, except when aggravated about the psychologist accidentally taking a sip from a soda can, and seemingly "slightly embarassed"? about the discussion of good touch and bad touch. Dr. B went on to note a loneliness or isolation in the picture BR drew; she also caught on that he was able to conceal things - like bedwetting, and perhaps other things which he knew but felt he should not reveal. And, she felt he was also very protective of his parents.

I agree with those who see these reactions as outside the norm. What 10 year old states (regarding his sister's death) that he is just "getting on with his life" this soon after his sister's death. It's adult language, not something one would expect from a 9/10 year old.

Actually, it is this flat affect which were some of the biggest flags JK noted in his book. We just don't know why he shows no fear, no sadness, no concern about his sister's death. BTW, JK was very clear about not deducing any personality disorder or sociopathic tendencies.

Would mention one other interesting facet about the "flat affect" from my own readings. Yes, it has been observed in children who are manifesting early signs of a disorder, and there's currently considerable studies about how this develops, if it has any relationship to the way the brain develops, etc. I simply added the observations of the psychologist to other pieces of the puzzle because there's no way, without reviewing his medical records, that anyone can know or interpret definitively. MHO

 

[Frigga]

ITA. We do not know if Burke even knew his sister was missing. He told Smit that his parents came into his room that morning and Patsy was frantic but he didn't say they told him she was missing. I think the reason they didn't want him to know she was missing was because they did not want him up looking for her. For anyone to react with stress, fear and sorrow they must first know about what they are reacting to. I don't believe Burke knew his sister was missing.

JMO[/QUOT

This was YOUR post, that I was responding to- then you change the meaning of it entirely?

 

[MyBelle]

ITA. We do not know if Burke even knew his sister was missing. He told Smit that his parents came into his room that morning and Patsy was frantic but he didn't say they told him she was missing. I think the reason they didn't want him to know she was missing was because they did not want him up looking for her. For anyone to react with stress, fear and sorrow they must first know about what they are reacting to. I don't believe Burke knew his sister was missing.

JMO[/QUOT

This was YOUR post, that I was responding to- then you change the meaning of it entirely?

Yes it is my posting. I will continue to hold the opinion the parents did not tell Burke his sister was kidnapped. Even if they had told him she was "missing" a 9-year-old kid has no idea he is supposed to be worried unless his parents TELL him to be worried. His father was heard telling him it wasn't his concern.

Nothing I've seen indicates Burke had reason to be fearful for his sister's safety.

JMO

 

[SapphireSteel]

I stopped posting a while back when Scott Peterson and Mary Bell were dragged into the mix.

The only snark I have noticed has come from the BDI theorists who seem so defensive they wont even outline their own theories...!

Its all very well telling people to "scroll up" instead of sharing your theories sensibly, but this response does make the responder look evasive and unsure of their own theory.

BDI seems to mean different things to different people.

For example I have read the suggestion B bashed and abused his sister, but stopped short of murdering her, preferring to call(?) his parents who obligingly euthanised JB without turning a hair.

To me, this scenario does not fall under the BDI umbrella. BDI by definition means B raped AND murdered by Burke alone.

I was shamefully abused in my house by brothers, yet here I am. No one thought to solve the problem by murdering me! Everyone to this day says "what problem?". It remains all in my mind.

So B abusing his sister IS NOT equivalent to him murdering her.

Two separate crimes, two separate perps (or 3).

It remains physically impossible for 9 year old Burke to move his sister. Physically impossible fir him to garrote her.

Physically and practically impossible too for a "damaged" child to keep such behaviour to himself despite questioning by psychs, detectives, courts etc.

A 9 year old is NOT a criminal mastermind.

This is the crime of an ADULT.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Re B's "flat affect" - we KNOW that demeanor in the grieving is unpredictable.

 

[2 percent]

Right but none of you have clue how he reacted outside of gossip and media so your observations are more made up stories

Seriously

While you're right that none of us observed Burkes behavior, it's unfair and untrue to label it as gossip and made up stories. A detective interviewed him in front of witnesses. He was observed by several people on the day of the murder and for days after, including the funeral. Like someone said, it's the totality of evidence more than each individual part that tells the story.

For example if you heard from 9 people that someone at a funeral was laughing hysterically and heard from 1 person that the same person was in fact crying hysterically would you say the incident didn't happen because you didn't observe it? Of course not.

 

[Frigga]

Burke Ramsey is no longer a child- hasn't been for a very long time.

He must know now at least some of what happened to his beloved little sister on the night she was murdered.

The perp has never been caught. How could he know for certain that he doesn't have any information that could possibly help investigators.

Why wouldn't he try... just give it a try... to help bring justice to his beloved baby sister.

What if?

Why not?

 

[SapphireSteel]

Burke Ramsey is no longer a child- hasn't been for a very long time.

He must know now at least some of what happened to his beloved little sister on the night she was murdered.

The perp has never been caught. How could he know for certain that he doesn't have any information that could possibly help investigators.

Why wouldn't he try... just give it a try... to help bring justice to his beloved baby sister.

What if?

Why not?

He genuinely may not remember.

 

[Frigga]

He genuinely may not remember.

True. Very true. Even so, wouldn't he want to try... to see... to hear the detectives out, for the sake of his beloved baby sister? Wouldn't he just want to do it, in some small measure- for her?

 

[SapphireSteel]

True. Very true. Even so, wouldn't he want to try... to see... to hear the detectives out, for the sake of his beloved baby sister? Wouldn't he just want to do it, in some small measure- for her?

I wondered too.

Then I realised how much loss B has experienced.

His sister then his mother.

Losing his father too may just be too much to contemplate.

Plus, I believe he knows little or nothing. I believe he was entirely uninvolved and actually did wake up next morning to a nightmare.

His parents told him an IDI and he believed them.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

True. Very true. Even so, wouldn't he want to try... to see... to hear the detectives out, for the sake of his beloved baby sister? Wouldn't he just want to do it, in some small measure- for her?

Do you honestly blame him? He knows he wasn't there. He has no idea what happened. He was interviewed more than once. People are still trying to say he did it even though he was cleared and there is no evidence against him.
People are writing books about his 9 yr old self killing his sister.
If I was Burke i'd stay away too.


Forgive the autocorrect. Tapatalk has a mind of its own.

 

[tezi]

He has also lost an older sister, Beth.

JMO

 

[Frigga]

I wondered too.

Then I realised how much loss B has experienced.

His sister then his mother.

Losing his father too may just be too much to contemplate.

Plus, I believe he knows little or nothing. I believe he was entirely uninvolved and actually did wake up next morning to a nightmare.

His parents told him an IDI and he believed them.

In my heart I hope you are right. I really hope you are right.

 

[Tawny]

You can be BDI and be a mother.

 

[MyBelle]

While you're right that none of us observed Burkes behavior, it's unfair and untrue to label it as gossip and made up stories. A detective interviewed him in front of witnesses. He was observed by several people on the day of the murder and for days after, including the funeral. Like someone said, it's the totality of evidence more than each individual part that tells the story.

For example if you heard from 9 people that someone at a funeral was laughing hysterically and heard from 1 person that the same person was in fact crying hysterically would you say the incident didn't happen because you didn't observe it? Of course not.

Didn't the detectives that actually interviewed BR come to the conclusion his mother was responsible? Wasn't she indicted for child abuse? I think it is far more realistic to believe both children in the Ramsey household were victims of child abuse. All of this innuendo that apparently has been lobbed by Kolar is just that and nothing more.

 

[MyBelle]

Burke Ramsey is no longer a child- hasn't been for a very long time.

He must know now at least some of what happened to his beloved little sister on the night she was murdered.

The perp has never been caught. How could he know for certain that he doesn't have any information that could possibly help investigators.

Why wouldn't he try... just give it a try... to help bring justice to his beloved baby sister.

What if?

Why not?

There are hours of his grand jury testimony. He doesn't need to say anything more because he's already testified.

 

[SapphireSteel]

You can be BDI and be a mother.

Therein lies the disconnect.

I'm a mum too, most of us are.

We can understand the instinct to protect your child, no matter what.

What I personally cannot understand, is the irrationality of wilfully murdering one child to "save" another from a few years in a nice hospital (worst case scenario).

How does it go, BDI mums? How does a parent look at their suffering, abused, dying baby girl, and calmly go about elaborate staging, raping, and garroting her instead of screaming for help?

Could you do it? What would you do if you found one child looking guilty and the other in her death throes? This is a serious question, as BDI relies on folks believing a caring mother did the absolute opposite of what was expected.

There's the rub. The psychological disconnect required is unfathomable and totally defies logic. A person who could compose entire Foreign Factions to cover a "household accident" is so deranged and unhinged they are likely to be responsible for that "household accident" in the first place.

IMO. :twocents:

 

[SapphireSteel]

Didn't the detectives that actually interviewed BR come to the conclusion his mother was responsible? Wasn't she indicted for child abuse? I think it is far more realistic to believe both children in the Ramsey household were victims of child abuse. All of this innuendo that apparently has been lobbed by Kolar is just that and nothing more.

Yes like Lacey before him he's done untold damage to the Truth which died that night alongside Jonbenet.


All in the name of selling a few books.

:moo:

 

[Linda7NJ]

Yes it is my posting. I will continue to hold the opinion the parents did not tell Burke his sister was kidnapped. Even if they had told him she was "missing" a 9-year-old kid has no idea he is supposed to be worried unless his parents TELL him to be worried. His father was heard telling him it wasn't his concern.



Nothing I've seen indicates Burke had reason to be fearful for his sister's safety.



JMO

I would think at the age of 9, seeing the flood of people in his house, police cars and police officers, his mother upset... Any normal 9 year old would at least ASK what is going on.
Any normal child would have been Concerned!


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[MyBelle]

Do you honestly blame him? He knows he wasn't there. He has no idea what happened. He was interviewed more than once. People are still trying to say he did it even though he was cleared and there is no evidence against him.
People are writing books about his 9 yr old self killing his sister.
If I was Burke i'd stay away too.


Forgive the autocorrect. Tapatalk has a mind of its own.

BBM. The idea that an innocent person has valuable information about a crime is one not grounded in anything remotely logical.