Was Burke involved?

[Linda7NJ]

BBM. The idea that an innocent person has valuable information about a crime is one not grounded in anything remotely logical.

They are called witnesses.
They testify at trials everyday.


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[MyBelle]

I would think at the age of 9, seeing the flood of people in his house, police cars and police officers, his mother upset... Any normal 9 year old would at least ASK what is going on.
Any normal child would have been Concerned!


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Aren't you making an assumption he didn't ask his parents what was going on? I think he did ask and was told not to worry about it. He was used to seeing a flood of people in his house at social gatherings.

 

[MyBelle]

They are called witnesses.
They testify at trials everyday.


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Yes, they testify at trials, not to the news media years later.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

They are called witnesses.
They testify at trials everyday.


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He did though. He says all he has to say.


Forgive the autocorrect. Tapatalk has a mind of its own.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Aren't you making an assumption he didn't ask his parents what was going on? I think he did ask and was told not to worry about it. He was used to seeing a flood of people in his house at social gatherings.

In the early morning? Come on! Let's keep it real. Cops in uniform standing around, squad cars out front.... No normal Human being would come to the conclusion it was simply a social gathering, no 4 year old, no 5 year old and certainly not a "normal" 9 year old.


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[MyBelle]

In the early morning? Come on! Let's keep it real. Cops in uniform standing around, squad cars out front.... No normal Human being would come to the conclusion it was simply a social gathering, no 4 year old, no 5 year old and certainly not a "normal" 9 year old.


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Wasn't his voice captured on the 911 recording asking what was going on?

I don't know if cops in uniform were just standing around. I would find that strange if they believed it was a kidnapping. I don't know what the child was told by his parents. I consider my kids were pretty normal and if their dad or I had told them not to be concerned about something, they wouldn't be. Cops usually provide a sense of security to a child, not abject fear.

Unless you can provide some kind of evidence that Burke was aware of the kidnapping and had reason to fear for himself, I'll continue to believe he was behaving exactly like a kid who was told not to worry.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Therein lies the disconnect.

I'm a mum too, most of us are.

We can understand the instinct to protect your child, no matter what.

What I personally cannot understand, is the irrationality of wilfully murdering one child to "save" another from a few years in a nice hospital (worst case scenario).

How does it go, BDI mums? How does a parent look at their suffering, abused, dying baby girl, and calmly go about elaborate staging, raping, and garroting her instead of screaming for help?

Could you do it? What would you do if you found one child looking guilty and the other in her death throes? This is a serious question, as BDI relies on folks believing a caring mother did the absolute opposite of what was expected.

There's the rub. The psychological disconnect required is unfathomable and totally defies logic. A person who could compose entire Foreign Factions to cover a "household accident" is so deranged and unhinged they are likely to be responsible for that "household accident" in the first place.

IMO. :twocents:

Reposted in the hope someone might answer!

 

[Frigga]

BBM. The idea that an innocent person has valuable information about a crime is one not grounded in anything remotely logical.

An innocent witness potentially having information about a crime is one not grounded in anything remotely logical?

He WAS in the house- before, during and after the murder. He could have heard something, smelled something, remembered something. He could have remembered a dream that was actually the sounds of something occurring in the house that night.

It is impossible to have a normal conversation about any of this apparently.

 

[Frigga]

People have answered only to be ridiculed and maligned.

 

[otg]

(Let me offer a completely fictional crime to make a point about the vicious brutality of JonBenet’s death.)

A 911 call is made by an obviously distraught mother at 5:45 pm. She tells the 911 operator she just got home from work and found her daughter lying on the living room floor not breathing and unresponsive. There is blood on the body. “Hurry, hurry, hurry!”

Police arrive, pictures are taken of the crime scene, and statements are taken from the mother and her other, 10 year old daughter who says she got home from school at about 4:30 pm after stopping briefly at a friend’s house on the way home. She says she went straight to her room on the second floor after getting home, and didn’t see her sister lying on the floor in the living room. The dead sister’s room is also on the second floor. Police find a pair of scissors in some of the bushes in the backyard, wiped clean of fingerprints but with trace evidence of blood which is later determined to belong to the victim.

The medical examiner’s autopsy reveals the following:

• The 14 year old female victim’s cause of death is from an atlanto-occipital dislocation (internal decapitation) associated with craniocerebral trauma.

External Exam:

• The victim also has two stab wounds in the upper abdomen (possibly from the scissors found in the bushes).
• The victim’s right humerus bone (arm) is fractured.
• Her right shoulder is dislocated.
• There are multiple recent contusions on her legs, arms, and upper torso.

Internal Exam:

• The skull has a linear fracture 6” in length running through the parietal bone and into the occipital bone.
• There is hemorrhaging in the subdural and the subarachnoid layers of the cerebrum.
• Her hymen is torn in two locations, and additional acute vaginal trauma is also found.
• Semen is present in her vagina (swabs taken for DNA testing).

Investigators question the girl’s known friends and associates and take DNA swabs. Soon a DNA match is found to the semen with a male (not really necessary to point that out, I hope :giggle: ) friend in a grade higher than the victim’s. Witnesses at the school say they had seen the two talking to one another between classes. He is accused of the vicious, brutal attack that killed the girl. He denies any involvement and denies ever even being in the victim’s house. The only DNA and fiber evidence found in the home is excluded from being associated with the crime because it all belongs to the victim and her family members.

So in this fictional scenario, can anyone not say that this was a vicious, brutal, heinous, psychopathic attack on the 14 year old girl -- probably committed by the victim’s friend who is arrested and charged with rape and first degree murder? If not, read the list again of all the injuries that were inflicted on her body.

(I’ll tell you what actually happened later today.)

No one even wanted to speculate a guess as to what happened in my little tale posted earlier today? :snooty: Well, I'll tell you anyway, because of all the earlier speculation about how brutal and vicious this attack was on JonBenet. Here goes:

After arresting the victim’s friend, charges are brought against him for the rape and the vicious, brutal murder of the 14 year old girl. Finally, the girl’s sister confesses to her mother about what she knows happened. They go to the police who, after hearing her story and further questioning of the arrested boy, put together what happened.

The 14 year old girl (the victim in this case) had gotten close to the boy at school, and after school, she had started going to his house before going home, knowing that her mother wouldn’t be home for a couple more hours. On the day she died, their “friendship” had reached the point that she decided to let him “go all the way”. This was the first time in her life she let something like that happen.

When she got home, she and her sister had an argument over using a pair of scissors. She grabbed the scissors trying to pull them away from her sister. When the younger sister lost her grip of the scissors, the older sister lost her balance at the top of the stairs as she stabbed herself with the scissors. She fell down the entire flight of wood stairs, tumbling several times on the way down, further pushing the scissors into her abdomen. Her sister ran to the bottom of the stairs and watched hopelessly as her sister died. Distraught, worried, panicked, and fearful of the consequences of having caused her older sister’s death, she pulled the scissors from the lifeless body, wiped them of prints and blood, and hid them in the bushes outside. Then she dragged her sister’s dead body into the living room and waited in her room for their mother to return from work to find the body.

All the injuries listed in the autopsy were sustained accidentally as the result of one small mistaken act. A culmination of unfortunate circumstances that had tragic consequences appearing to be a brutal rape and vicious attack.

One point in this tale is that the DNA that linked the friend had nothing to do with the actual crime. Another point is that without the sister’s “confession”, investigators would probably have never figured out what actually happened. But the main point in this is that we can’t judge how “vicious” or “brutal” a death is simply by the injuries sustained on the body. Those descriptions are of the manner in which the injuries were inflicted. Until the circumstances that caused the death are known, we can’t judge how “brutal”, “vicious”, or “psychopathic” it was. And if we don’t know the exact circumstances that caused it, we can’t say who was or was not capable of doing it.

[Disclaimer: Events and characters are completely fictitious and bear no resemblance to actual events or persons. Any similarities are completely coincidental. No animals were harmed in the making of this story.]

 

[Tawny]

I was eagerly awaiting your tale, otg. You have such a way of saying what I mean to say, but in better and more eloquent terms.

 

[SapphireSteel]

People have answered only to be ridiculed and maligned.

I have never ridiculed or maligned anyone.

As far as I know, no one has attempted to explain the logic of killing one child to protect another.

Not one mother has said she would even think of the same thing.

There is a lot of offence being taken but I am not out to offend anyone - merely obtain a coherent logical idea of BDI.

The entire argument rests on an adult killing a child to protect another child - without this, BDI literally IS impossible.

So how many people would do the same thing?

 

[SapphireSteel]

No one even wanted to speculate a guess as to what happened in my little tale posted earlier today? :snooty: Well, I'll tell you anyway, because of all the earlier speculation about how brutal and vicious this attack was on JonBenet. Here goes:

After arresting the victim’s friend, charges are brought against him for the rape and the vicious, brutal murder of the 14 year old girl. Finally, the girl’s sister confesses to her mother about what she knows happened. They go to the police who, after hearing her story and further questioning of the arrested boy, put together what happened.

The 14 year old girl (the victim in this case) had gotten close to the boy at school, and after school, she had started going to his house before going home, knowing that her mother wouldn’t be home for a couple more hours. On the day she died, their “friendship” had reached the point that she decided to let him “go all the way”. This was the first time in her life she let something like that happen.

When she got home, she and her sister had an argument over using a pair of scissors. She grabbed the scissors trying to pull them away from her sister. When the younger sister lost her grip of the scissors, the older sister lost her balance at the top of the stairs as she stabbed herself with the scissors. She fell down the entire flight of wood stairs, tumbling several times on the way down, further pushing the scissors into her abdomen. Her sister ran to the bottom of the stairs and watched hopelessly as her sister died. Distraught, worried, panicked, and fearful of the consequences of having caused her older sister’s death, she pulled the scissors from the lifeless body, wiped them of prints and blood, and hid them in the bushes outside. Then she dragged her sister’s dead body into the living room and waited in her room for their mother to return from work to find the body.

All the injuries listed in the autopsy were sustained accidentally as the result of one small mistaken act. A culmination of unfortunate circumstances that had tragic consequences appearing to be a brutal rape and vicious attack.

One point in this tale is that the DNA that linked the friend had nothing to do with the actual crime. Another point is that without the sister’s “confession”, investigators would probably have never figured out what actually happened. But the main point in this is that we can’t judge how “vicious” or “brutal” a death is simply by the injuries sustained on the body. Those descriptions are of the manner in which the injuries were inflicted. Until the circumstances that caused the death are known, we can’t judge how “brutal”, “vicious”, or “psychopathic” it was. And if we don’t know the exact circumstances that caused it, we can’t say who was or was not capable of doing it.

[Disclaimer: Events and characters are completely fictitious and bear no resemblance to actual events or persons. Any similarities are completely coincidental. No animals were harmed in the making of this story.]

Sorry, you lost me at "completely fictional".:blushing:

 

[Linda7NJ]

Wasn't his voice captured on the 911 recording asking what was going on?



I don't know if cops in uniform were just standing around. I would find that strange if they believed it was a kidnapping. I don't know what the child was told by his parents. I consider my kids were pretty normal and if their dad or I had told them not to be concerned about something, they wouldn't be. Cops usually provide a sense of security to a child, not abject fear.



Unless you can provide some kind of evidence that Burke was aware of the kidnapping and had reason to fear for himself, I'll continue to believe he was behaving exactly like a kid who was told not to worry.

Burkes own words aren't good enough?

Edited to fix MaBelle's quote

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[otg]

Can someone fix the dang quotes so we know who's saying what, and who's being quoted?

 

[Linda7NJ]

Reposted in the hope someone might answer!

As I've said before... I think Patsy believed she was already dead. She was unconscious and very very near death.
She wouldn't have survived the head wound.
Have you ever seen someone die? When my dad died, ( the life support had been shut off he survived for about 3 hours. ) That last 30 minutes... He appeared dead. I would have bet my life he was. I was shocked by the monitors indicating differently.




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[Linda7NJ]

An innocent witness potentially having information about a crime is one not grounded in anything remotely logical?

He WAS in the house- before, during and after the murder. He could have heard something, smelled something, remembered something. He could have remembered a dream that was actually the sounds of something occurring in the house that night.

It is impossible to have a normal conversation about any of this apparently.

Elizabeth Smarts sister comes to mind


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[Linda7NJ]

I have never ridiculed or maligned anyone.

As far as I know, no one has attempted to explain the logic of killing one child to protect another.

Not one mother has said she would even think of the same thing.

There is a lot of offence being taken but I am not out to offend anyone - merely obtain a coherent logical idea of BDI.

The entire argument rests on an adult killing a child to protect another child - without this, BDI literally IS impossible.

So how many people would do the same thing?

If they believed JonBenet was already dead, it's entirely logical.

I know of many parents that have lied, provided false alibis, hidden evidence for their guilty children.



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[Linda7NJ]

Therein lies the disconnect.

I'm a mum too, most of us are.

We can understand the instinct to protect your child, no matter what.

What I personally cannot understand, is the irrationality of wilfully murdering one child to "save" another from a few years in a nice hospital (worst case scenario).

How does it go, BDI mums? How does a parent look at their suffering, abused, dying baby girl, and calmly go about elaborate staging, raping, and garroting her instead of screaming for help?

Could you do it? What would you do if you found one child looking guilty and the other in her death throes? This is a serious question, as BDI relies on folks believing a caring mother did the absolute opposite of what was expected.

There's the rub. The psychological disconnect required is unfathomable and totally defies logic. A person who could compose entire Foreign Factions to cover a "household accident" is so deranged and unhinged they are likely to be responsible for that "household accident" in the first place.

IMO. :twocents:

It doesn't look like an accident if she's discovered pantyless and bleeding. The head bash could very well have been an "accident" not intended to kill her, just quiet her.

Given that scenario along with my belief she appeared dead

How would that look? How would she explain that?

I can understand Patsy with her need to present as perfect going to the dramatic extreme.


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[Linda7NJ]

Reposted in the hope someone might answer!

Do you believe an intruder did it?


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