Was Burke involved?

[DeDee]

PR minimized the golf club incident in her '98 interview. first, she mis-stated BR's age by saying he was two, or two and a half, or three years old in '93 when it happened - "it was our first summer there" (in Charlevoix); second, she said she couldn't remember which side of JB's face was injured even though it resulted in "a good old black eye for a while" and the ER treatment was followed by a visit to a plastic surgeon

I had forgotten that BR told the GJ he had a pair of Hi-Tec boots in '96

The "accidental" injury from BRs golf club swing happened in Aug. 2004 just a couple of days shy of JBRs fourth (4th) birthday. BR was 7yo att.


From James Kolar’s book “Foreign Faction":

”Two years before JonBenet’s murder, Burke hit his little sister over the head with a golf club. Jealousy. Resentment. Anger and pubescent sexual issues. Sibling rivalry and other fascinating clues. By the way, Burke was one month shy of 10 years old, and towered over the petite JonBenet. Any clue like the pineapple –which would put JonBenet and Burke in close proximity, the parents denied...."


Here Kolar is speculating various possible reasons for the 2004 "accidental" golf club injury to JBRs face that was serious enough to warrant a visit to a plastic surgeon's office.

Do Kolar's speculations about the mysteries of BRs behavior continue to take place going forward as 4yo JBR matures into a sexy 6yo girl?

Young children can and do get accidentally hit by objects such as swings, see-saws, tree branches, softball and baseball bats, tennis rackets, golf clubs, golf balls, baseballs and softballs, etc.

Unless the 2006 killing was BDI, the "accidental" golf club swing that hit JBRs face in 2004 was most likely an accident.

CS Evidence against BR:

BRs fingerprints are on the bowl of pineapple and on the glass that holds a tea bag. Both items are photographed by LE on the breakfast table.

BRs tDNA is on the pink Barbie nightgown found in the wine cellar with JBR.

BRs pocket knife is discovered on the floor in the wine cellar with JBR.

PJ bottoms too big for JBR, and thought to be BRs, were on her bedroom floor. The pjs had feces in them.

Train track from BRs 0 gauge train track collection could have caused abrasions found on JBR noted on her AR.

BR owned a pair of Hi-Techs but his shoe size was never confirmed nor were his Hi-Tech's ever presented to LE. Kolar concedes that one of the officers who responded to the discovery of the body was said to have worn Hi-Tech's, possibly accounting for the Hi-Tech boot print in the cellar.


IIRC, the Hi-Tech boot print in the soft mold on the floor in the wine cellar was determined to be from a size 8 1/2.

 

[SapphireSteel]

The BDI theory...one of the most appalling aspects of the case.

It just doesn't make sense. At all. There is also NO evidence.

If Burke was involved then two scenarios are possible -

P & R staged to cover up or

BDI did it entirely alone.

Both of these are impossible for the following reasons -

Clearly Burke couldn't have man handled JB enough to get her in the basement in the first place, she was scared to go there so he couldn't have persuaded her either, even in daylight, and aspects of the staging showed physical strength such as dressing the body, restraining her wrists.

Which leaves us with the parents somehow discovering the results of the crime, but not the crime itself, which was surely prolonged and noisy.

In this instance, Burke WOULD NOT be on the 911 call.

He would have been already prepped and rehearsed and silent in his room, with his mothers arms around him while his father called LE.

He would have been part of the staging.

We know he wasn't. My theory is that they actually forgot about him, and only remembered when they woke him by calling 911.

He is another victim IMO.

 

[Arnie M]

I was once engaged to a very nice girl from a very nice harmonious family .... there were 5 children in the family and they did lots together ..... weekends away at museums , weddings , reunions , water parks , wonderful family times together.

Typically they would all pile into a large conversion van Friday after work and the parents would drive thru the night to destination and they would get a nice hotel for the weekend. Remember I am talking at least 7 people packed into a van .... 2 parents , 5 kids , and often an extra cousin or inlaw thrown in

To my surprise my fiance revealed her brother had abused her for years during those trips , he would put his hand down her pants and do things for hours at a time WHILE ALL AROUND her were other people who did not have a clue it was happening.

This all happened from 8-14 years of age ... I still have a hard time to comprehend it , like I said , this was a good family.

 

[UKGuy]

The "accidental" injury from BRs golf club swing happened in Aug. 2004 just a couple of days shy of JBRs fourth (4th) birthday. BR was 7yo att.


From James Kolar’s book “Foreign Faction":

”Two years before JonBenet’s murder, Burke hit his little sister over the head with a golf club. Jealousy. Resentment. Anger and pubescent sexual issues. Sibling rivalry and other fascinating clues. By the way, Burke was one month shy of 10 years old, and towered over the petite JonBenet. Any clue like the pineapple –which would put JonBenet and Burke in close proximity, the parents denied...."


Here Kolar is speculating various possible reasons for the 2004 "accidental" golf club injury to JBRs face that was serious enough to warrant a visit to a plastic surgeon's office.

Do Kolar's speculations about the mysteries of BRs behavior continue to take place going forward as 4yo JBR matures into a sexy 6yo girl?

Young children can and do get accidentally hit by objects such as swings, see-saws, tree branches, softball and baseball bats, tennis rackets, golf clubs, golf balls, baseballs and softballs, etc.

Unless the 2006 killing was BDI, the "accidental" golf club swing that hit JBRs face in 2004 was most likely an accident.

CS Evidence against BR:

BRs fingerprints are on the bowl of pineapple and on the glass that holds a tea bag. Both items are photographed by LE on the breakfast table.

BRs tDNA is on the pink Barbie nightgown found in the wine cellar with JBR.

BRs pocket knife is discovered on the floor in the wine cellar with JBR.

PJ bottoms too big for JBR, and thought to be BRs, were on her bedroom floor. The pjs had feces in them.

Train track from BRs 0 gauge train track collection could have caused abrasions found on JBR noted on her AR.

BR owned a pair of Hi-Techs but his shoe size was never confirmed nor were his Hi-Tech's ever presented to LE. Kolar concedes that one of the officers who responded to the discovery of the body was said to have worn Hi-Tech's, possibly accounting for the Hi-Tech boot print in the cellar.


IIRC, the Hi-Tech boot print in the soft mold on the floor in the wine cellar was determined to be from a size 8 1/2.

DeDee,
There are feces elsewhere in the room. Why does Kolar not connect the dots?

Why is BR undressing in JonBenet's bedroom, what are his pants doing on the floor?

Answers on a postacard to the Ramsey Foundation ...


.

 

[UKGuy]

The "accidental" injury from BRs golf club swing happened in Aug. 2004 just a couple of days shy of JBRs fourth (4th) birthday. BR was 7yo att.


From James Kolar’s book “Foreign Faction":

”Two years before JonBenet’s murder, Burke hit his little sister over the head with a golf club. Jealousy. Resentment. Anger and pubescent sexual issues. Sibling rivalry and other fascinating clues. By the way, Burke was one month shy of 10 years old, and towered over the petite JonBenet. Any clue like the pineapple –which would put JonBenet and Burke in close proximity, the parents denied...."


Here Kolar is speculating various possible reasons for the 2004 "accidental" golf club injury to JBRs face that was serious enough to warrant a visit to a plastic surgeon's office.

Do Kolar's speculations about the mysteries of BRs behavior continue to take place going forward as 4yo JBR matures into a sexy 6yo girl?

Young children can and do get accidentally hit by objects such as swings, see-saws, tree branches, softball and baseball bats, tennis rackets, golf clubs, golf balls, baseballs and softballs, etc.

Unless the 2006 killing was BDI, the "accidental" golf club swing that hit JBRs face in 2004 was most likely an accident.

CS Evidence against BR:

BRs fingerprints are on the bowl of pineapple and on the glass that holds a tea bag. Both items are photographed by LE on the breakfast table.

BRs tDNA is on the pink Barbie nightgown found in the wine cellar with JBR.

BRs pocket knife is discovered on the floor in the wine cellar with JBR.

PJ bottoms too big for JBR, and thought to be BRs, were on her bedroom floor. The pjs had feces in them.

Train track from BRs 0 gauge train track collection could have caused abrasions found on JBR noted on her AR.

BR owned a pair of Hi-Techs but his shoe size was never confirmed nor were his Hi-Tech's ever presented to LE. Kolar concedes that one of the officers who responded to the discovery of the body was said to have worn Hi-Tech's, possibly accounting for the Hi-Tech boot print in the cellar.


IIRC, the Hi-Tech boot print in the soft mold on the floor in the wine cellar was determined to be from a size 8 1/2.

DeDee,
There are feces elsewhere in the room. Why does Kolar not connect the dots?

Why is BR undressing in JonBenet's bedroom, what are his pants doing on the floor?

Answers on a postcard to the Ramsey Foundation ...


.

 

[SapphireSteel]

I haven't read Kolars book, but how much "matter" are we talking?

Varied mixed turds lying about, or the equivalent of a wet fart?

Little kids can get fecal matter in some very odd places, without even trying.

Toilet to bad wiping to hand to not washing said hand, thence to the Xbox controller and a subsequent dose of gastro.

Its why your kids get gastro from daycare.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I haven't read Kolars book, but how much "matter" are we talking?

Varied mixed turds lying about, or the equivalent of a wet fart?

Little kids can get fecal matter in some very odd places, without even trying.

Toilet to bad wiping to hand to not washing said hand, thence to the Xbox controller and a subsequent dose of gastro.

Its why your kids get gastro from daycare.

Burke was a spit away from being 10.
Smears of poop on a box of candy seems a bit much to be accidental IMO


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Mama2JML]

Regarding the candy box, how do we know it was poop, let alone Burke's poop? Did the CBI analyze it? Did anybody conduct a smell test?

 

[UKGuy]

Regarding the candy box, how do we know it was poop, let alone Burke's poop? Did the CBI analyze it? Did anybody conduct a smell test?

Mama2JML,
[modsnip] Kolar clearly states it was poop, as was the contents of the pants on the floor.

[modsnip]...

 

[gramcracker]

one of the housekeepers described the earlier find of feces in JB's bed as "the size of a grapefruit." I don't think, given the general lack of appreciation for hygiene in this household, that either of these kids would bother to change their clothing because of a "wet fart," ie: the too-big-for-JB pj bottoms found in her room were full of more than the kid wearing them could tolerate

 

[Tricia]

Mama2JML,
[modsnip] Kolar clearly states it was poop, as was the contents of the pants on the floor.

[modsnip]...

Kolar made these statements on my show about the excrement on the candy.

It may be in his book too. Can't remember

 

[Linda7NJ]

Kolar made these statements on my show about the excrement on the candy.



It may be in his book too. Can't remember

It's in the book too


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[UKGuy]

Kolar made these statements on my show about the excrement on the candy.

It may be in his book too. Can't remember

Tricia,
I apologise for being opaque. I heard James Kolar make remarks about the feces, but I never heard him connect the pants on the floor with the feces on the candybox or even the pants lying on the bathroom floor similarly fecally soiled?

Just an observation not intended as a criticism.



.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Tril -
Thank you for the Burke knife information.
I had never read about Burke's knife prior to your post.
This small bit of info sheds a huge light. IMO
After reading Kolar's book, this supports his inference that it was Burke. IMO

More to ponder....

Yes it was Burke's knife but the important details is -

He'd had it taken off him and hidden.

Only two people knew where, Patsy and Linda.

One of those two took it out on the night...not Linda, so that only leaves P.

I see now why the Burke theory has legs - Kolars book.

Coming so many years after the event, he had to find something new to sell his book - Burke is that something new.

poor kid, not only did he lose his sister, his parents have allowed him to be a scapegoat.

:moo:

 

[midwest mama]

Yes it was Burke's knife but the important details is -

He'd had it taken off him and hidden.

Only two people knew where, Patsy and Linda.

One of those two took it out on the night...not Linda, so that only leaves P.

I see now why the Burke theory has legs - Kolars book.

Coming so many years after the event, he had to find something new to sell his book - Burke is that something new.

poor kid, not only did he lose his sister, his parents have allowed him to be a scapegoat.



:moo:

BBM

Patsy was gone when Kolar's book came out. I am not in the least bit surprised that JR would remain passive about information that casts shadows on Burke.....thinking it shifts some suspicion away from him?

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Yes it was Burke's knife but the important details is -

He'd had it taken off him and hidden.

Only two people knew where, Patsy and Linda.

One of those two took it out on the night...not Linda, so that only leaves P.

I see now why the Burke theory has legs - Kolars book.

Coming so many years after the event, he had to find something new to sell his book - Burke is that something new.

poor kid, not only did he lose his sister, his parents have allowed him to be a scapegoat.

:moo:

How do they know only two people know where it was? How many people were in and out of that house during the holidays? How do they know that someone did not come in and find it ?

There is no absolute about who knew the knife was there.. It has only been reported that only Linda and Patsy knew about it. JMO


And we finally agree completely on something.. Burke was another victim in this case. Not a suspect.

 

[DeeDee249]

I doubt BR was a scapegoat. The GJ seemed to agree. The parents covered up for someone- someone who was NOT either of them. BDI makes the pieces of the puzzle fit a little better. Had Kolar not been on track with his theories, he'd have been sued. He wasn't. You can't be sued for libel if what you say is the truth.
However, we can't just assume the feces in the PJ's or the candy box were BR's. Just because the PJ bottoms were his or were too big for JB doesn't meat she wouldn't have worn them if her own had gotten wet and she was in his room. JB was said to sometimes go into BR's room in the night, especially of she had wet her bed.
As far as I know, the feces were not tested against JB's DNA and I am not sure whether such tests can be done. I know blood, semen & saliva can be DNA matched to someone, but I am not sure about feces. Maybe one of our DNA experts knows.
As for Kolar's book- every author wants to sell books. But I do not think he offered up BR as a sacrificial lamb for profit. He'd have never gotten away with that. I think his theories come from a place of wanting to put the truth out there but because of legal constraints (aka BR being underage at the time) he cannot come out and state the ONE thing that would end all discussion and the case would closed.

 

[gramcracker]

DNA is found in semen, vomit, urine, feces, earwax, sweat, mucus, saliva and tears

a fairly new trend is to require dog owners supply a sample of their pet's DNA. this is used to prove which owners are not cleaning up after their dogs when they make deposits on a neighbor's lawn/common areas where clean-up is required, and the pet owner is then ordered to pay a fine

 

[JC84]

I posted this on another thread, but on the question of testing faeces for DNA, I came across the following in the Massei report, which is the official summary of the evidence convicting Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito of the murder of Meredith Kercher:

(Page 43) 'Further biological traces of Rudy Guede were found on the toilet paper taken from the toilet of the larger bathroom. The faeces present in the toilet of that bathroom did not, however, yield any results, and Dr Stefanoni, the biologist of the Scientific Police, explained that the presence of numerous bacteria easily destroys what DNA might be found in faeces.'

 

[gramcracker]

there is a wide variance of DNA in feces, some of which is determined by the state of the sample: fresh vs dried vs suspended in water vs frozen, etc. current/recent diet and elimination habits also play a part. (certain DNA-rich cells are replaced every week or so). toilet water as a "preservative" is much less favorable to accurate analysis because it is such a contaminated environment