Was Burke involved?

Was Burke involved in JB's death?

  • Burke was involved in the death of JBR

    Votes: 377 59.6%
  • Burke was totally uninvolved in her death

    Votes: 256 40.4%

  • Total voters
    633
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Some of these discussions are taking rather....interesting turns :scared:

I think for me, the AMOUNT of fecal/urine matter &/or residue--whether from stained panties, or smeared across a chocolate box--indicates something wasn't right in that household. IMO, based on being the mother of 2 kids, and having participated in countless convos with other moms about toileting issues, there simply shouldn't have been so much going on in that department in a household with a 6 and 9 year old.

It seems evident to me, even though we might not have "hard evidence" that both kids had these issues to some degree. Add in the fact how badly JRB had regressed at the age of 6 and I feel it tells us something.
 
Some of these discussions are taking rather....interesting turns :scared:

guilty!

I think the true discussion is slowly evaporating. what we have instead is constant interjections re how none of the long-demonstrated/long-known circumstances and facts are valid. it requires superhuman strength to ignore the bait and stay off the merry-go-round

I will be polite and say that the purpose of that is a mystery to me. I can think of numerous subjects where there is major disagreement among the public, and there is not a thing wrong with that. I can think of numerous conversations that I choose not to have with family/friends because it would serve no purpose. I can think of many websites where I choose not to post because of the prevailing sentiment. I read a little and then I leave. I prefer to concentrate my energy where I am not "swimming upstream." without exception, I can find a site with like-minded individuals where the discussions are productive

here is one example: having read 33 books about the assassination, I think LHO was "dangled" by the CIA/Naval Intelligence in Russia, however successfully/unsuccessfully. he was one of about a dozen young military men who defected/attempted to defect in Russia/behind Europe's Iron Curtain during the late 50s/early 60s and later returned to the US (many as double agents: the Commies thought they were"theirs" while in reality they were still "ours": therefore they were successfully dangled). LHO's stateside assignment was the Russian/Cuban community and I think he was played by his case officer(s), was in way over his head, and was a patsy. I think it's sad that his daughters have lived their lives knowing that their father is a much-hated man, when in reality he was a patriot who was used and sacrificed by rogue elements of his government

the point of that example is to ask why I would choose to post at a LHO-was-a-lone-gunman-nut website? would my view be welcomed? no. would I convince anyone that their opinion is wrong? no. would my posts be disruptive? yes

I think for me, the AMOUNT of fecal/urine matter &/or residue--whether from stained panties, or smeared across a chocolate box--indicates something wasn't right in that household. IMO, based on being the mother of 2 kids, and having participated in countless convos with other moms about toileting issues, there simply shouldn't have been so much going on in that department in a household with a 6 and 9 year old.

It seems evident to me, even though we might not have "hard evidence" that both kids had these issues to some degree. Add in the fact how badly JRB had regressed at the age of 6 and I feel it tells us something.

that to me is a reasonable/valid statement. it also a provides a perfect opportunity to question/denigrate your knowledge /experience. "what is your source for the alleged toileting issues? what is that source's agenda? did that source profit financially by espousing that view? you cannot equate your experience with that of a family entirely unknown to you. we weren't there, so none of us can really know"

then someone responds with "it's part of the larger picture - the totality of circumstantial evidence." then the definition/validity of circumstantial evidence is debated. and so on and so forth, yadda yadda yaddda, ad infinitem

that's why the true discussion has largely evaporated. time is spent justifying posts, looking up sources and providing links ... which would be much less disruptive if it was done in response to newcomers with questions rather than in response to naysayers who pick/pick/pick apart posts which do not opine IDI

I get why salmon swim upstream. that's where they create new life. I will be polite again and say that I have no idea why it's so important to swim upstream here

YMMV (your mileage may vary)
 
guilty!


I get why salmon swim upstream. that's where they create new life. I will be polite again and say that I have no idea why it's so important to swim upstream here

YMMV (your mileage may vary)

:thewave: :thewave: :thewave:
 
New here. From my understanding there are threads specifically dedicated to RDI theorists and threads specifically dedicated to IDI theorists.

And then there are neutral threads like this one where a discussion theoretically is taking place weighing what people believe to be evidence of Burke's involvement or non involvement in JonBenet sexual assault and brutal murder.

Yes?
 
As to JonBenét regressive behavior, her mom was thought to be dying for quite a bit In there. Patsy was hospitalized for extended periods of time, John and Patsy or
Patsy alone were absent from the children’s lives for what to small children were long stretches of time. I’m sure while Patsy was very sick that she looked terrible and that her much loved children were terrified by seeing their mother deteriorate in front of their eyes even if they didn’t comprehend what it all meant.

Those emotions that JonBenét and Burke experienced didn’t simply disappear because Patsy went into remission, damage take time to heal. Burke and JonBenet’s recorded behavior is consistent with children that just lived through a traumatic life event that encompassed a large portion of their young lives.
 
As to JonBenét regressive behavior, her mom was thought to be dying for quite a bit In there. Patsy was hospitalized for extended periods of time, John and Patsy or Patsy alone were absent from the children’s lives for what to small children were long stretches of time. I’m sure while Patsy was very sick that she looked terrible and that her much loved children were terrified by seeing their mother deteriorate in front of their eyes even if they didn’t comprehend what it all meant.

Those emotions that JonBenét and Burke experienced didn’t simply disappear because Patsy went into remission, damage take time to heal. Burke and JonBenet’s recorded behavior is consistent with children that just lived through a traumatic life event that encompassed a large portion of their young lives.
 
As to JonBenét regressive behavior, her mom was thought to be dying for quite a bit In there. Patsy was hospitalized for extended periods of time, John and Patsy or Patsy alone were absent from the children’s lives for what to small children were long stretches of time. I’m sure while Patsy was very sick that she looked terrible and that her much loved children were terrified by seeing their mother deteriorate in front of their eyes even if they didn’t comprehend what it all meant.

Those emotions that JonBenét and Burke experienced didn’t simply disappear because Patsy went into remission, damage take time to heal. Burke and JonBenet’s recorded behavior is consistent with children that just lived through a traumatic life event that encompassed a large portion of their young lives.
SOOO true. Thoughtful post, Carmelita... ;)

:welcome6:
 
Sorry about that folks, like I said I am new here


Welcome to Websleuths!

I agree with your first post. Having said that, it doesn't do a thing IMO to discount burke's possible involvement. It actually may help explain his jealousy, soiling, and the documented detachment witnessed by those in contact with him after his sister died.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Why does the Poo not feature in any account of the original investigation?

Or does it..!?
 
As to JonBenét regressive behavior, her mom was thought to be dying for quite a bit In there. Patsy was hospitalized for extended periods of time, John and Patsy or Patsy alone were absent from the children’s lives for what to small children were long stretches of time. I’m sure while Patsy was very sick that she looked terrible and that her much loved children were terrified by seeing their mother deteriorate in front of their eyes even if they didn’t comprehend what it all meant.

Those emotions that JonBenét and Burke experienced didn’t simply disappear because Patsy went into remission, damage take time to heal. Burke and JonBenet’s recorded behavior is consistent with children that just lived through a traumatic life event that encompassed a large portion of their young lives.

Great post, I for one failed to really consider if the children were already traumatised, long before this nightmare. Jonbenet was very young, but Burke was old enough to have understood a lot about his mothers health issues, and was probably very scared of losing her.

I do feel the roots of this crime lie in P's illness, one way or another.
 
Just out of curiosity M2M, I know you are of the IDI persuasion and what Carmelita posted seems to me to be pure RDI. My definition of IDI is of a basically normal family whose lives were suddenly shattered by a brutal intruder. What Carmelita is saying (if I interpret it correctly) is a long-term dysfunctional/abusive childhood situation directly related to their parents. So, how does that fit with IDI in your opinion?

I know this was directed to Mama2JML, but as another IDI I’d like to respond.

IDI does not preclude the possibility that the Ramseys were not the best people on the planet, or that they weren’t the greatest parents, or that they weren’t capable of bad or stupid behavior, etc. The family could have indeed been dysfunctional and strange. I would even go so far as to say that IDI does not preclude the possibility that one of the Ramseys could have been responsible for the prior abuse.
...

AK
 
New here. From my understanding there are threads specifically dedicated to RDI theorists and threads specifically dedicated to IDI theorists.

And then there are neutral threads like this one where a discussion theoretically is taking place weighing what people believe to be evidence of Burke's involvement or non involvement in JonBenet sexual assault and brutal murder.

Yes?

the "neutral" threads are constantly derailed by IDI posts which contain content that is, to put it politely, designed to keep the IDI agenda front and center. this latest concentration of IDI posts began to occur shortly before the public release of the information that the Grand Jury had indeed returned a True Bill after years and years of false claims that there was no TB

the dedicated IDI threads contain far fewer posters and much less activity, and perhaps result in less satisfaction for IDIs

therefore:

I think the true discussion is slowly evaporating. what we have instead is constant interjections re how none of the long-demonstrated/long-known circumstances and facts are valid. it requires superhuman strength to ignore the bait and stay off the merry-go-round

[snip]

that's why the true discussion has largely evaporated. time is spent justifying posts, looking up sources and providing links ... which would be much less disruptive if it was done in response to newcomers with questions rather than in response to naysayers who pick/pick/pick apart posts which do not opine IDI
 
I know this was directed to Mama2JML, but as another IDI I’d like to respond.



IDI does not preclude the possibility that the Ramseys were not the best people on the planet, or that they weren’t the greatest parents, or that they weren’t capable of bad or stupid behavior, etc. The family could have indeed been dysfunctional and strange. I would even go so far as to say that IDI does not preclude the possibility that one of the Ramseys could have been responsible for the prior abuse.

...



AK


I agree that this family was not perfect. I don't believe she was abused by a family member but I don't see that as being idi or Rdi.

I also don't see Carmelita's post as RDI but an observant view of the facts. Why are we so quick to label people?

Any child seeing their parent so sick would be affected. Christen feel heaviness of serious sickness and it imprints on them.

I believe that these children were average kids living and coping through a life changing event with the sickness of their mother. Jmo


Forgive the autocorrect. Tapatalk has a mind of its own. :)
 
I didn't see anyone label Carmelita or her post. maybe it was deleted and I missed it?
 
I didn't see anyone label Carmelita or her post. maybe it was deleted and I missed it?

It is in Anti-k post.. it is in the quote.

I think it may have been deleted because I wanted to respond directly to that and could not find it so I quoted Anti-K' post that it was embedded in.
 
Great post, I for one failed to really consider if the children were already traumatised, long before this nightmare. Jonbenet was very young, but Burke was old enough to have understood a lot about his mothers health issues, and was probably very scared of losing her.

I do feel the roots of this crime lie in P's illness, one way or another.
I agree with the statement BBM. JonBenet was ~4 yo & Burke ~7 yo when Mrs. Ramsey was diagnosed. Her battle with cancer began not long after Beth Ramsey's sudden death. It would be unrealistic to expect a family, as a unit, to function at one's preconceived opinion of "optimal". Likewise, it would be negligent to assume the children would not be affected by these events and the emotional, physical, etc. toll these experiences had/has on their parents.
 
I agree with the statement BBM. JonBenet was ~4 yo & Burke ~7 yo when Mrs. Ramsey was diagnosed. Her battle with cancer began not long after Beth Ramsey's sudden death. It would be unrealistic to expect a family, as a unit, to function at one's preconceived opinion of "optimal". Likewise, it would be negligent to assume the children would not be affected by these events and the emotional, physical, etc. toll these experiences had/has on their parents.


Good post. I also agree with the WDI. Because my search is for truth and evidence wherever that leads. I have no allegiance to anyone. I want the right person brought to justice.


Forgive the autocorrect. Tapatalk has a mind of its own. :)
 
I agree with the statement BBM. JonBenet was ~4 yo & Burke ~7 yo when Mrs. Ramsey was diagnosed. Her battle with cancer began not long after Beth Ramsey's sudden death. It would be unrealistic to expect a family, as a unit, to function at one's preconceived opinion of "optimal". Likewise, it would be negligent to assume the children would not be affected by these events and the emotional, physical, etc. toll these experiences had/has on their parents.

IA with everyone’s post about the amount of stress/trauma this family faced in the early 90s.

This following slight clarification does not diminish your point that no family would be operating at optimum under these conditions. Beth died January 8, 1992. One and ½ years later PR was diagnosed with cancer early July of 1993; JB was 2 and 11 months, not quite 3, BR was 6 ½.

Going further, my brother who lost his oldest daughter to a health crisis, has told me he does not believe he will ever get over it, and the whole family suffers from this loss. The children witnessing the grief of their father, and the battle PR faced (the threat of death) would be deeply affected, and only God, perhaps people closest to the family, and the Rs doctors would know how this family dealt with it. moo
 
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