Was Joe involved?

[Cowdaddy]

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/ind...ndID=438615018&albumID=367869&imageID=1355138

OK I admit I can't post a pic! Saw how to the other night and should have written it down! grrrr

anyway this is the pic I am referring to maybe there is another?

MAYBE it is a gun... I see a chamber but what is hangin out the bottom? It looks like a power cord or a hose or something... to skinny and long for a grip IMO

It doesn't look like a gun to me either. I read people refer to it as a gun and I just assumed it was a gun. And somebody else posted somewhere in this forum yesterday (I think) that they had re-examined it and it was a gun. So I don't know. He is holding it like punks in movies hold a gun and maybe like punks in real life hold guns.

 

[gngr~snap]

It doesn't look like a gun to me either. I read people refer to it as a gun and I just assumed it was a gun. And somebody else posted somewhere in this forum yesterday (I think) that they had re-examined it and it was a gun. So I don't know. He is holding it like punks in movies hold a gun and maybe like punks in real life hold guns.

No I must apologize, now I do think it is indeed a gun! Wonder why JO had it and how he got his hands on it?????

 

[Cowdaddy]

TY! can you do a side by side by any chance?
My apologies to COWDADDY! I am certain you are RIGHT and I was WRONG!!

that is scary!

That is not just a gun.

So the mild mannered kid in the interview with his lawyer is photographed holding a Uzi.

He could wipe out not just Tommy, but all the Croslins in about 5 seconds with that, if he could get them close enough together.

And this certainly could indicate sociopathic tendancies. Well, it does indicate sociopathic tendancies.

And thanks, gngr~snap, but no need to apologize to me on this one, because I had not examined the photo closely and was just listening to what other people were saying.

Gun or no gun, Uzi or no Uzi, I still don't believe Tommy has been afraid of Joe.

 

[gngr~snap]

JO may be small but he may also be one of those unstable fly of the hammer kinda guys... y'know the kind of "crazy guy" everyone fears cause he's a loose cannon? Maybe Gma Hollars knows this about him? Maybe we should re listen to her comments about him...

I would think he would have a longer rap sheet if this was the case unless no one ever comes forward to point the finger at him. Sometimes these seedy little guys get away with a lot of chit cause the don't "LOOK" scary...

Who knows!! but he has some big bad contacts if he is holding an uzi even if it's not his! I'd fear him.

 

[Hippy Chick]

If someone threatened one of my family members, I couldn't sleep at night, for the worry it would bring. Tommy called LE on RC more than one time, so we know he's not afraid to call when he feels threatened. And how many guns does Ron own? Part of me wants to believe what Tommy was trying to say to his granny was that the story Misty told about Shell Harbor was true, but............it was Ron instead of JO. Another part of me just can't believe that LE would allow this lie to be leaked, and to cause grief to JO and his family. It would be too much of a risk to have this story out there, and take a chance that someone might want to take justice into their own hands, and injure JO in some way. Unless JO has been relocated to another state, or is in protective custody, LE doesn't have a clue as to what's going on. I will never believe that anybody other than Ron is guilty of his daughter's disappearance. I could believe that Ron, Tommy and Joe got into a fight and Haleigh was killed. Any scenario that doesn't include Ron isn't believable to me. His actions and reactions over the past 15 months are not the actions of an innocent man, that has lost a daughter he loves. He acts like a man that has gotten away with murder, and thinks he is smarter than all of Satsuma! I'm going back to believing aliens abducted Haleigh. It's much more believable than the latest story!

If that be the case why wouldn't MC, ToC, or JO not tell police that RC was involved. As desperate as they are to get out of jail why not just tell the truth and implicate RC, RC is in jail as they are so he can't get to them to hurt or kill them now. If JO was there and HC was killed while RC, and him and or ToC was fighting why wouldn't JO tell the cops the truth. That is one thing that makes no sense to me. MC may love and try to protect RC but why would ToC and JO protect him at this point.

 

[Maryann123]

It still doesn't look like a gun to me. But, assuming it is, what does that prove? Ron has guns, so let's make him the murderer. Misty still maintains that Joe molested her when she was.......I think 5 or 6 years old. Making Joe 8 or 9 years old. Joe was a baby for pete's sake, so that's lie number 1! She was going to help JO and TC steal Ron's gun. She is not going to steal from the man she loves, so there's lie number 2! The MO of the break-in at the MH that night fits JO's former crimes. He was a car thief, not a house breaker, so there's lie number 3! JO held a knife to her throat and threatened to kill her if she told that he killed Haleigh. She and Joe hung posters of Haleigh together the very next day, and there was no sign of fear on her part. Lie number 4! She goes to TN to spend time with her granny, in the very town that JO lives in. Why does she place herself in a position of danger, if she is so afraid of him......thus lie number 5! Not only does she go along with JO in keeping quiet, she stages the MH to appear as if a B&E has occurred in order to protect him! Nobody, and I mean nobody would do this! It only takes a tiny bit of common sense to see through this story. For people like Art Harris to put this out there and expect us to believe it, is just ludicrous. Tell me OJ's innocent, and I'll believe it over this story.

 

[dodie20]

That gun Joe was holding on his myspace page could certainly compensate for the weight difference.

Tommy might have some fear of Joe, but I don't think that's the reason why he didn't tell. It isn't any stretch for me to believe these Croslins are the types of people who wouldn't turn in the killer of a 5 year old. I know that's far out concept, but these people are far out there. I know all about seedy and I know all about redneck dope fiends, but I never met anybody close to these people.

Over and over on the boards we see people seem to expect that these people should react like they would or would have. But the thing is, the people posting here on the boards aren't criminals, they aren't dope fiends, they weren't raised by Hank Sr and whatever his wife's name is. If any of the women here got locked up, I doubt their mother would ask them, on her very first visit, if she "had found anybody yet." That's what Misty's mother asked her on the jailhouse on the jailhouse video. When you've got a mother who asks her daughter that on her first jailhouse visit--I don't expect these people to act and react like normal people, and I really wouldn't be shocked if someone who was raised by a woman who asked such a question--I wouldn't be shocked if I learned they hadn't reported a murder.

I've got some backwoods, (& that's putting it nicely), relatives. You would not believe the things that they've done & gotten away with. My aunt once basically witnessed her bro rape & attempt to kill a girl. & even though she couldn't stand him, it probably never entered her mind to report him-family secrets & all. But she did warn us kids to stay away from him. A lot of things went on, & we all were just taught to deal with it. You just did NOT bring outsiders into family business. Period. I think the Croslins are like this. For the most part, I believe Misty's abuse stories, because they make a lot of her later actions make sense. Also, I know for a fact that when depraved men get together, (especially drunk or loaded relatives), they can do unspeakable things to kids. They laugh & think it's fun. They feel an entitlement to these kids. If Joe & Tommy are both involved, I think I have a pretty good idea of how things got so out of control. So yes, I think Joe is involved, but I have my doubts to him being the main perp & I don't this would've happened, if he hadn't been there.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

5. MC: "Bumping locks & using cinder blocks was Joes MO"

***snipped from yellowsubmarine's post above***

See, that's what I don't get. JO's juvenile crimes were car thefts. WHY would he need to use cinder blocks? Now the "lock bumping" - on a car you use a "slim jim" down the side of the door - can that be said as "lock bumping"? I've not heard gmh, or JO's atty say he had building burglaries or robberies - gmh said he was in juvie for stealing cars. No lock bumping or cinder blocks needed for that crime - you punch ignitions and use slim jims.

Blocks are used to "put the car up on blocks" to steal tires and rims. Look around any area where derelict cars can be found and you will see cars up on blocks, no tires or wheels.

 

[gngr~snap]

on Uzi talk. com it says that Uzi's are legal to own in the US?

in order to own an Uzi legally, one would need an ATF permit that cost $200 and about $6000 to purchase one? OH and be 21 with no felony record?
Again where was JO to even be holding that gun?
No one that owned one legally would let a kid mess with it and take pictures I HOPE!
SO I'm going to assume JO had an illegally owned UZi in his possesion when that pic was taken...

 

[Wise Old Owl]

Blocks are used to "put the car up on blocks" to steal tires and rims. Look around any area where derelict cars can be found and you will see cars up on blocks, no tires or wheels.

Yes - cinder blocks are used to "put the car up on" - but, in the city when these kids can "strip" a car in less than 3 minutes there is not a cinder block to be found. Plus JO was stealing the whole car - kinda hard to steal a car iffen you put it up on cinder blocks first. Grand theft auto usually is a kid that steals the car and drives it to a "chop shop" - some warehouse somewhere where they strip the car for parts. So, I still don't see JO's MO including cinder blocks.

 

[Maryann123]

If that be the case why wouldn't MC, ToC, or JO not tell police that RC was involved. As desperate as they are to get out of jail why not just tell the truth and implicate RC, RC is in jail as they are so he can't get to them to hurt or kill them now. If JO was there and HC was killed while RC, and him and or ToC was fighting why wouldn't JO tell the cops the truth. That is one thing that makes no sense to me. MC may love and try to protect RC but why would ToC and JO protect him at this point.

The only person that knows RC is involved is Misty. Tommy suspects RC is involved, but he has no knowledge of it. We heard Tommy on previous tapes, say LE wants him to say certain things, and he refuses to do it. He says he's not gonna make up things just to get out of jail. Evidently, he's had a change of heart.
The part about the 3 guys being involved in Haleigh's death was pure speculation on my part. There is no evidence of that happening.

 

[Hippy Chick]

The only person that knows RC is involved is Misty. Tommy suspects RC is involved, but he has no knowledge of it. We heard Tommy on previous tapes, say LE wants him to say certain things, and he refuses to do it. He says he's not gonna make up things just to get out of jail. Evidently, he's had a change of heart.
The part about the 3 guys being involved in Haleigh's death was pure speculation on my part. There is no evidence of that happening.

If she trusted him enough to call him to help dispose of a dead child then she has at some point in time told him the truth about what happened. And now with LC wanting a divorce I think he would certaintly tell the cops what he knows. And at this point MC knows they are all going to jail for a long. long time she would have turned on RC herself. IMO

 

[Maryann123]

I've got some backwoods, (& that's putting it nicely), relatives. You would not believe the things that they've done & gotten away with. My aunt once basically witnessed her bro rape & attempt to kill a girl. & even though she couldn't stand him, it probably never entered her mind to report him-family secrets & all. But she did warn us kids to stay away from him. A lot of things went on, & we all were just taught to deal with it. You just did NOT bring outsiders into family business. Period. I think the Croslins are like this. For the most part, I believe Misty's abuse stories, because they make a lot of her later actions make sense. Also, I know for a fact that when depraved men get together, (especially drunk or loaded relatives), they can do unspeakable things to kids. They laugh & think it's fun. They feel an entitlement to these kids. If Joe & Tommy are both involved, I think I have a pretty good idea of how things got so out of control. So yes, I think Joe is involved, but I have my doubts to him being the main perp & I don't this would've happened, if he hadn't been there.

Dodie, I don't know you, but I can assure you, that if I saw someone harming you and anyone else, I'd step in and do the right thing. Those aren't just words, I've been there. It worked out well for me, even though it could have gone terribly wrong. I like to think I'm not the exception, but the rule. I stood up to a gang in the mall that were attacking innocent young boys. I'd do it again, if I had too. One boy was about to be smacked in the head with a lead pipe, when I stepped in. He could have turned on me, but I charged forward anyway. I don't understand people that can turn their backs on others. I'm not made that way, and I detest people that are. I was totally in TC corner until all this latest stuff came out. I believe he is lying to save his own neck, and I have no use for him now. I want to see this case all tied up in a pretty package with all the bows. I don't think it will happen, but in my heart, I think I know the truth. If I'm wrong, I owe a lot of people apologies!

 

[dodie20]

The only person that knows RC is involved is Misty. Tommy suspects RC is involved, but he has no knowledge of it. We heard Tommy on previous tapes, say LE wants him to say certain things, and he refuses to do it. He says he's not gonna make up things just to get out of jail. Evidently, he's had a change of heart.
The part about the 3 guys being involved in Haleigh's death was pure speculation on my part. There is no evidence of that happening.

If Tommy is making up this story, here is my theory of why. LE wants to solve this case really bad, but for whatever reason, won't even entertain the idea that Ronald is responsible. So...they squeeze Tommy, (who's looking @ a light sentence, & is desperate to keep his wife), & they squeeze him hard. They basically throw the 'Joe did it' story in his lap, & then incourage him to run with it. If Tommy thinks that LE has proof that 'Joe did it', it wouldn't be hard to go along. I think this is a real possibility, because this investigation has been so 'all over the place', that I'm having a real hard time believing anything LE says.

 

[Maryann123]

If she trusted him enough to call him to help dispose of a dead child then she has at some point in time told him the truth about what happened. And now with LC wanting a divorce I think he would certaintly tell the cops what he knows. And at this point MC knows they are all going to jail for a long. long time she would have turned on RC herself. IMO

You are assuming TC helped dispose of Haleigh's body, and I don't believe that to be the case. LE has tried, and tried to get TC to admit Jo was involved, and he has said he isn't gonna make up some lie to save his own butt. I think that is exactly what he has done.

According to all reports, Lindsy has changed her mind about the divorce. I'm disgusted with everyone involved in this case. I don't believe the gun story, and I don't believe JO is involved. I think the entire bunch of them are only out to save their own rears at anyone's expense. I'm just sick of all of them!

About Misty! She still thinks she isn't going to jail. She thinks she and Ron will set up house and live happily ever after. Once she finds out she is going to jail, and for a very long time, I think the tide will turn!

 

[Maryann123]

If Tommy is making up this story, here is my theory of why. LE wants to solve this case really bad, but for whatever reason, won't even entertain the idea that Ronald is responsible. So...they squeeze Tommy, (who's looking @ a light sentence, & is desperate to keep his wife), & they squeeze him hard. They basically throw the 'Joe did it' story in his lap, & then incourage him to run with it. If Tommy thinks that LE has proof that 'Joe did it', it wouldn't be hard to go along. I think this is a real possibility, because this investigation has been so 'all over the place', that I'm having a real hard time believing anything LE says.

Boy! From your lips to God's ears! I think you have nailed it!

 

[Cowdaddy]

on Uzi talk. com it says that Uzi's are legal to own in the US?

in order to own an Uzi legally, one would need an ATF permit that cost $200 and about $6000 to purchase one? OH and be 21 with no felony record?
Again where was JO to even be holding that gun?
No one that owned one legally would let a kid mess with it and take pictures I HOPE!
SO I'm going to assume JO had an illegally owned UZi in his possesion when that pic was taken...

I am not an expert on this, but I believe Uzi's are legal to own as long as it is semi-automatic and not fully automatic. (So you won't have to ask your husband what this means: It means that Uzi's that you have to pull the trigger each time a bullet goes out--and bullets go out one at the time--these are legal, but machine gun Uzi's that kick out multiple bullets each time the trigger is pulled are illegal.)

It is no big deal converting a semi-automatic Uzi to full auto. Anybody would prefer a 38 revolver or a reliable 9mm automatic to a semi-automatic Uzi, but in a gunfight with multiple persons at close range, I'd prefer a fully automatic Uzi over anything out there.

These guns were designed for one purpose: To quickly kill numerous people in closed quarters--like hallways. I believe a fully automatic Uzi can spit out 9 shots in one second and that the magazine holds 200 shells--that is a whole, whole lot of shells. It is an incredible weapon. It was developed by Israel.

As far as what Joe was doing with the gun and how he got it: Real thugs and wannabe, pretender thugs (like RC) could have a Uzi around. The people you go to Sunday School with--they generally don't have Uzi's.

 

[dodie20]

Dodie, I don't know you, but I can assure you, that if I saw someone harming you and anyone else, I'd step in and do the right thing. Those aren't just words, I've been there. It worked out well for me, even though it could have gone terribly wrong. I like to think I'm not the exception, but the rule. I stood up to a gang in the mall that were attacking innocent young boys. I'd do it again, if I had too. One boy was about to be smacked in the head with a lead pipe, when I stepped in. He could have turned on me, but I charged forward anyway. I don't understand people that can turn their backs on others. I'm not made that way, and I detest people that are. I was totally in TC corner until all this latest stuff came out. I believe he is lying to save his own neck, and I have no use for him now. I want to see this case all tied up in a pretty package with all the bows. I don't think it will happen, but in my heart, I think I know the truth. If I'm wrong, I owe a lot of people apologies!

I would never let anybody hurt my kids. If anything, I'm OCD about it. But I do know from experience, that even family members who hate each other, don't squeal, when it's molestation against a child. & the kids learn from an early age to keep that stuff a secret. It's an off limits subject. I can't help myself, but I believe a lot of Misty's story. I can see a scared teen hiding under the covers, & just wanting everything to stop. She did say that 3 or 4 men were there, so who knows what really happened. But the neighbor who heard a woman's scream, & then saw her crying on the phone, makes me think that Misty didn't have much to do with this. I think she could've been overpowered, threatened, & made to stay out of it. Tommy could've known from experience, that Misty was easy to keep quiet. & that's assuming that there's any truth to the Joe story. but with Tommy throwing out details, right & left, there's gotta be something to it.

 

[gngr~snap]

I am not an expert on this, but I believe Uzi's are legal to own as long as it is semi-automatic and not fully automatic. (So you won't have to ask your husband what this means: It means that Uzi's that you have to pull the trigger each time a bullet goes out--and bullets go out one at the time--these are legal, but machine gun Uzi's that kick out multiple bullets each time the trigger is pulled are illegal.)

It is no big deal converting a semi-automatic Uzi to full auto. Anybody would prefer a 38 revolver or a reliable 9mm automatic to a semi-automatic Uzi, but in a gunfight with multiple persons at close range, I'd prefer a fully automatic Uzi over anything out there.

These guns were designed for one purpose: To quickly kill numerous people in closed quarters--like hallways. I believe a fully automatic Uzi can spit out 9 shots in one second and that the magazine holds 200 shells--that is a whole, whole lot of shells. It is an incredible weapon. It was developed by Israel.

As far as what Joe was doing with the gun and how he got it: Real thugs and wannabe, pretender thugs (like RC) could have a Uzi around. The people you go to Sunday School with--they generally don't have Uzi's.

WHOA! thx for the info. Dad would have given me an hour lecture! Hubby doesn't know guns like my dad does but Daddy's at the NRA convention! LOL (It's his first, he wanted to see Sarah Palin)
That is one gun my dad would say that people shouldn't own cause as you said it was made for one purpose only.
So what is the message JO is sending on his Myspace? I think I know...

 

[Maryann123]

I don't know what it's called, but the part of the "gun" that goes around the trigger finger, (in the uzi picture) is way bigger than the part around JO's finger in his picture. That is unless JO has some very, very fat fingers.