Was Joe involved?

[Donjeta]

It is very easy for us to sit here in the comforts of our own home and not understand the fear, when we have never been around anyone who has murdered a child nor know someone who is capable of that.

If he was capable of this evil and heinousness then he would certainly strike the fear in the hearts of anyone that knew what he had done. I have no doubts he ruled them by fear and told them if they told anyone he would harm them, their family or Tommy's own children. Knowing that he had already killed one child would certain make them know he would carry those threats out if they betrayed him. Imo he involved Tommy by force because he knew he could hold that over his head too and tell him he was a part of it too and would go down with him if he told.

Being in TN is no assurances whatsoever that he could not come back undetected at any given time or send one of his thuggy friends. Fear makes a person paranoid and in a heightened state of mind and the fears even become more pronounced just thinking about what could happen.

The old adage that dynamite comes in small packages often is true when it comes to humans. Judge not the stature of the person but what they are capable of doing.

IMO

JMO but if I knew someone like that I would feel a lot safer knowing he's behind bars. They could always put me in the witness protection or something, but if he's on the loose in Tennessee I'll never be safe again, he can come back and kill me and my kids any time, not to mention I'd have on my conscience the fate of any other people he comes across and kills, knowing I could have helped put him in prison.

 

[dodie20]

The thing that bugs the crud out of me is this:Misty pointed her finger @ Joe very early on. LE half/azzed looked @ him, 'cleared' him, & then left him alone, for how many months? Are their investigative tactics so weak, that they completely missed that boat? Why does it feel like this investigation is running around in circles? If he was the perp, shouldn't they have recognized that early on? They had their chance. But instead, they hound & hound, Misty, arrest & extradite her whole family, & leave Ron alone. Where exactly were they going with that? Did they have a plan? What overlooked detail did they finally catch in that lie test? & if this is all on the up & up, shouldn't they have caught it long ago? Why would they now, after all of this time, decide to believe Misty, who they've labeled an unreliable liar?

 

[Maven2379]

The thing that bugs the crud out of me is this:Misty pointed her finger @ Joe very early on. LE half/azzed looked @ him, 'cleared' him, & then left him alone, for how many months? Are their investigative tactics so weak, that they completely missed that boat? Why does it feel like this investigation is running around in circles? If he was the perp, shouldn't they have recognized that early on? They had their chance. But instead, they hound & hound, Misty, arrest & extradite her whole family, & leave Ron alone. Where exactly were they going with that? Did they have a plan? What overlooked detail did they finally catch in that lie test? & if this is all on the up & up, shouldn't they have caught it long ago? Why would they now, after all of this time, decide to believe Misty, who they've labeled an unreliable liar?

Who knows?? If what Misty and Tommy are saying is true, Misty and others pointed in that direction in the beginning and LE (temporarily at least) cleared JO!!!

I believe that LE has botched this case from the get-go, from taking the bedding and spreading it on the ramp to let the dogs get Haleigh's scent, to the botched dumpster search and beyond!

I think they want the case solved, and I am not saying that all involved are corrupt or anything, but if JO did it and LE believe it to be so, FGS why didn't they listen in the beginning!? There still would have been physical evidence!!

Makes me question if they actually believe the story that is being told now, and if they do, what evidence do they have to support it? ...... other than two proven liars word?

As far as I know Tennessee has not moved further away from Florida, and I don't recall Florida building a concrete wall around itself, so what has changed to lift the veil of fear, they were all supposedly under?

~JMO

 

[SoSueMe]

I dont think they have a problem with him having an attorney. He has had this attorney for over 3 years.

I think Hardy was disgusted that he is no longer cooperating with LE even with his attorney present. Just like Jason Young lawyered up and quit talking to LE.

imo

And just like RC lawyered up and stopped cooperating with LE.

 

[suspicious1]

And just like RC lawyered up and stopped cooperating with LE.

Exactly. He stopped cooperating for months...but he want us to believe that he wanted to find out what happened to his "heart". This is one of the reasons that I think Ron failed part, or all of the questions on the LDT. He knew after that, that he would need a lawyer...a Criminal Defense lawyer.

JMO though

 

[Emeralgem]

The more I think about this, the more I'm not believing this new story. For Jr. to have heard squeaky shoes, that trailer had to have been quiet-no raging Joe. So, the question is...who all was in the trailer, & who went in & quietly got Haleigh? Joe? Would a psycho bent on revenge, be quiet?

And to my knowledge Jr. has never stated to anyone Misty grabbed him up and they had to hide under the covers..I would think even a four year old would remember a traumatic incident of that nature...JMO

 

[tlcya]

ToC's comment in the taped phone call to Granny bothers me. The one where he says "I don't want anything to happen to MY kids" (paraphrasing)

Which didn't jibe with him being silent all these months if JO is the perp. I mean, JO is in TN and not much of a geographical threat to ToC's kids. But then neither is RC as he is incarcerated just like ToC.

It occurred to me last night as I lay waiting for sleep to overtake me that maybe ToC being in jail is what finally broke his silence. Granted JO is not in the same state as ToC's children, but if he continued to keep silent while he is in jail, nothing stops JO from taking another trip down to florida. And if ToC hasn't told his story then what stops the Croslin clan from giving JO access to ToC's kids? If he doesn't break his silence, then his family won't know to protect the kids from JO.

 

[lorann]

Exactly. He stopped cooperating for months...but he want us to believe that he wanted to find out what happened to his "heart". This is one of the reasons that I think Ron failed part, or all of the questions on the LDT. He knew after that, that he would need a lawyer...a Criminal Defense lawyer.

JMO though

RC's refusing to talk with LE for months is very suspicious. However, the expression "Lawyered up" does upset me. Back in the old Court TV days, even respected lawyers - Lisa Bloom for example - always suggested that everyone should retain a lawyer to make sure their rights are not violated. Some then go ahead and take LDT's or cooperate with LE. If you request your lawyer present when being questioned, your answers cannot be changed. If you refuse requests to be questioned with your lawyer present, that sounds like you have something to hide. All of my ramblings just mean I don't think people are guilty just because they have a lawyer.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

It certainly has been obvious that Tommy has told some tall lies from the beginning. Imo, his denial for so long about Joe were to protect himself, Joe and Misty.

But it is NOT obvious to me now that he is lying now. Since he has such a long track record of lying and trying to cover up I don't believe for one second that LE would take his words for anything and rush to the boat ramp to do a three day extensive expensive search both in the water and in the outlying areas. I don't believe LE would come out and say that Haleigh's case is now a homicide investigation just based on words of either Misty or Tommy.

Something they told them made LE take notice this time. I believe it was because what was finally said lined up with LE's own long investigation and things they have uncovered themselves that no one but LE and the participants would know. I also feel LE would have insisted that each one take a poly before they even would consider what they had to say to them.

When Tommy was in is cover up mode for Joe, himself and Misty he tried to spin it that the police were wanting him to lie about Joe. He told this to his family because he knows they cant keep anything a secret and totes gossip faster than a Tsunami to each other. He knew he was being taped and most likely that conversation would be aired in the media.

IMO, even back then LE didn't want Tommy to lie... as he conveniently spins it, but they knew he knew and they wanted him to come clean about Joe, the man they suspected and imo have suspected for some time now. At the time it was a way to get the word out to Joe >>>>I ain't telling no one Joe,YKWIM>>>>

So imo it isn't so much about the lies that Tommy and Misty have told before when they were making the threesome family pact but it is what the police have gathered up until that time and beyond that matches what they are saying now. Long ago LE has said they were 95% sure of what happened.

I think they have known for quite sometime who killed Haleigh and who was there when it happened. They are now being told where their investigation has already led them before Tommy decided to spill the beans this time.

LE always will guard pieces of information closely and evidence they have and will not release it to anyone and when they do get that "tip" or someone starts talking and tells them then they know they are on the right track for no one would have known about it but those who were there and have first hand knowledge and LE who has the evidence.

I think we will see an arrest(s) in the coming weeks.

IMO

 

[suspicious1]

RC's refusing to talk with LE for months is very suspicious. However, the expression "Lawyered up" does upset me. Back in the old Court TV days, even respected lawyers - Lisa Bloom for example - always suggested that everyone should retain a lawyer to make sure their rights are not violated. Some then go ahead and take LDT's or cooperate with LE. If you request your lawyer present when being questioned, your answers cannot be changed. If you refuse requests to be questioned with your lawyer present, that sounds like you have something to hide. All of my ramblings just mean I don't think people are guilty just because they have a lawyer.

But the point is, Ron stopped cooperating with LE and all they were trying to do was find out what happened to his daughter. So even if he had a lawyer, why wouldn't he want to help LE find out what happened to his daughter? With Ron avoiding LE for months, it seems he didn't want to assist/help LE find his daughter. Why would he do that?? Were they accusing him of having something to do with it?? That's the only way I could see Ron not cooperating with LE, otherwise, what was the problem??? I mean, he had a lawyer that could be present if needed. He stopped cooperating with LE all together...even after he got his lawyer.

JMO though

 

[grandmaj]

I dont think they have a problem with him having an attorney. He has had this attorney for over 3 years.

I think Hardy was disgusted that he is no longer cooperating with LE even with his attorney present. Just like Jason Young lawyered up and quit talking to LE.

imo

Are you saying Joe had this attorney for over three years? Or someone else? Thanks.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Are you saying Joe had this attorney for over three years? Or someone else? Thanks.

Good morning Grandma!

Yes, Joe's attorney said he had been his attorney for three years. Which would have made him 17 and a juvenile at the time. Sure would like to know what is in his juvenile record.


IMO

 

[suspicious1]

Are you saying Joe had this attorney for over three years? Or someone else? Thanks.

Gram, it was said that Jo had this attorney for over 3 years and he stepped in to help Jo with Haleigh's case. It is speculation that LE was mad that he stop cooperating with them or that he had even stopped cooperating. I don't believe that to be true.

I wonder how LE felt when Ron, the father of the missing child, stop cooperating?:waitasec: If people think Jo stopped cooperating with LE and it is a sign of guilt....What do you think about Ron not cooperating. It has to be a sign of guilt, also, right?? It seems Ron's actions keep being overlooked by some. Not me though.

JMo though

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Gram, it was said that Jo had this attorney for over 3 years and he stepped in to help Jo with Haleigh's case. It is speculation that LE was mad that he stop cooperating with them or that he had even stopped cooperating. I don't believe that to be true.

I wonder how LE felt when Ron, the father of the missing child, stop cooperating?:waitasec: If people think Jo stopped cooperating with LE and it is a sign of guilt....What do you think about Ron not cooperating. It has to be a sign of guilt, also, right?? It seems Ron's actions keep being overlooked by some. Not me though.

JMo though

It makes sense to me. Why would LE fly 1300 miles round trip and only talk to the guy for 45 minutes? Imo, Joe's lawyer nipped it in the bud when he saw what direction LE was going in.

IMO, we will see no further cooperation from JO and his attorney.

IMO

 

[SoSueMe]

I'm having a real problem with the timeline. If Joe did this, when was this supposed to have happened? According to Lindsy, she arrived home at 10:30 and Tommy had dinner cooked, the kids were put to bed and everything was fine. She's also said she would have woken up if Tommy had ever left during the middle of the night.

Then you have Chelsea stating she was up late working on insurance papers and the van was still at the house. So if Joe took the van after Chelsea went to sleep, Tommy (according to Lindsy) wasn't available to go with Joe.

The two timelines aren't matching up. When Joe was available, Tommy was not. UNLESS, all this action took place shortly after GGMS saw the Norman Rockwell setting on the front porch at 7:00-7:30 and this supposed murder took place between 7:30-10:00, allowing Tommy to rush back home and prepare dinner.

Which leads us to whether Joe was at the mobile home that early in the evening and if he was, did GGMS see him too? Surely Chelsea would know if Joe was home or not while she was working on insurance papers.

The timelines aren't matching up with Tommy and Joe IMO.

 

[lorann]

But the point is, Ron stopped cooperating with LE and all they were trying to do was find out what happened to his daughter. So even if he had a lawyer, why wouldn't he want to help LE find out what happened to his daughter? With Ron avoiding LE for months, it seems he didn't want to assist/help LE find his daughter. Why would he do that?? Were they accusing him of having something to do with it?? That's the only way I could see Ron not cooperating with LE, otherwise, what was the problem??? I mean, he had a lawyer that could be present if needed. He stopped cooperating with LE all together...even after he got his lawyer.

JMO though

I agree, his refusal to go in and talk to LE for months with or without his lawyer makes me think he has something to hide. Then he came out with that video in his lawyers office which only made him look worse, at least in my eyes. LE was always aware of the times he skirted on those drug charges. They said many times, their first concern was Haleigh. I think he was on their radar from the beginning. Failure to cooperate resulted in taking them all down for selling drugs.

 

[SoSueMe]

It makes sense to me. Why would LE fly 1300 miles round trip and only talk to the guy for 45 minutes? Imo, Joe's lawyer nipped it in the bud when he saw what direction LE was going in.

IMO, we will see no further cooperation from JO and his attorney.

IMO

Oh I can definitely agree with this OBE.

 

[suspicious1]

I agree, his refusal to go in and talk to LE for months with or without his lawyer makes me think he has something to hide. Then he came out with that video in his lawyers office which only made him look worse, at least in my eyes. LE was always aware of the times he skirted on those drug charges. They said many times, their first concern was Haleigh. I think he was on their radar from the beginning. Failure to cooperate resulted in taking them all down for selling drugs.

I totally agree. Totally. Good post, Lorann.

 

[grandmaj]

Gram, it was said that Jo had this attorney for over 3 years and he stepped in to help Jo with Haleigh's case. It is speculation that LE was mad that he stop cooperating with them or that he had even stopped cooperating. I don't believe that to be true.

I wonder how LE felt when Ron, the father of the missing child, stop cooperating?:waitasec: If people think Jo stopped cooperating with LE and it is a sign of guilt....What do you think about Ron not cooperating. It has to be a sign of guilt, also, right?? It seems Ron's actions keep being overlooked by some. Not me though.

JMo though

I don't believe that LE is anymore upset that Joe stopped cooperating than any other player in this case including Ron. I agree with your thinking Suspicious, if failure to cooperate is a sign of guilt for one person than why would it not be a sign of guilt for another? Ron stopped cooperating early on. I mean a year into this case he finally sat down with LE about the phone calls?

Yes our opinions are total speculation, most of this case is though. We all have strong feelings about who might be guilty but that doesn't make it so. And hopefully we will be getting more news soon. And arrests will be made.

I personally don't know what to think about Joe. I feel he is involved but I don't believe he is the one that killed Haleigh. I feel it was much closer and I do not see Joe as a threat to anyone. I could be wrong but at the present time I believe it was closer than a cousin in TN who has had the finger pointed at him for 15 months off and on. He is 12 hours away and could have carried out any threats he is alleged to have made at any time in that 15 months.

Misty took a bus to TN and I'm sure the bus runs in both directions. MOO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I agree, his refusal to go in and talk to LE for months with or without his lawyer makes me think he has something to hide. Then he came out with that video in his lawyers office which only made him look worse, at least in my eyes. LE was always aware of the times he skirted on those drug charges. They said many times, their first concern was Haleigh. I think he was on their radar from the beginning. Failure to cooperate resulted in taking them all down for selling drugs.

I think his refusal had to do with Misty and probably every time they wanted to talk to him was to see if Misty had said anything.

Well it is obvious that Misty was covering up the entire time. Hardy said she is NOW beginning to talk because she realizes she is in serious trouble. So it took LE 14 months to get some of the real story out of her and she was never in a million years going to tell Ron Cummings that she knew what had happened to his daughter.

One person she was never going to tell what she knew was Ron Cummings. This was his daughter FGS! I don't know why LE ever thought she would tell Ron anyway. She is scared right now of him since Tommy has told what happened to Haleigh because she knows he knows now she knew what happened all along and yet told no one.

IMO