"We Didn't Mean for This to Happen"

[Nuisanceposter]

I am a parent too and I believe its the R's and highly unlikely its some weird perp who has remained undiscovered this long. I just dont buy that.

And certainly not with this much evidence implicating the R's. Why would they be lying to cover up for someone else? IMO, Patsy wrote that ransom note. One of the Ramseys killed JonBenet.

 

[Eagle1]

I am a parent too and I believe its the R's and highly unlikely its some weird perp who has remained undiscovered this long. I just dont buy that.

I think "some weird perp who's remained undiscovered this long" will finally be caught for something else and somehow we'll know it's him (he). You could be right, of course, and we'll just have to wait and see.

Have faith, "every secret thing will become known", maybe not all at once or as fast as we'd like.

Cold Cases and Unsolved Mysteries on TV may sometimes be 16 yrs or longer. Not too often, I know. You'll see, I think. The length of time he's managed to hide out isn't as important, imho, as LE including FBI believing none of the family did it.

 

[Rupert]

Well, I totally respect Sharpar's point of view. If one of the parents is really that nuts, then that would indeed explain everything. At first it would be very surprising to find that any parent would do such things, but if the parent is that nuts, then yes it is logical.

But it appears that no prior history is there (except if you take LHP's writings seriously).

Singular suggests that JonBenet was removed from the house and strangled and bashed, then brought back. Singular suggests that the R's have something to hide, but had no intention of harm.

 

[sharpar]

Well, I totally respect Sharpar's point of view. If one of the parents is really that nuts, then that would indeed explain everything. At first it would be very surprising to find that any parent would do such things, but if the parent is that nuts, then yes it is logical.

But it appears that no prior history is there (except if you take LHP's writings seriously).

Singular suggests that JonBenet was removed from the house and strangled and bashed, then brought back. Singular suggests that the R's have something to hide, but had no intention of harm.

Thanks Rupert but I dont think the R's are nuts but psychology unhealthy.
There is a pathology that allows them to behave badly. They are horrible
human beings, they pointed fingers at their employees and friends. They believe the rules dont apply to them. They insist on being victims yet its their child that is dead. Almost without exception every word out of their mouths has been either misleading or an outright fabrication. They counted on us beer can collectors and LE to be too stupid to realize what happened and how utterly corupt they are. Just when you think they cant possibly be anymore arrogant they raise the bar.
Its mystifying how any church can allow those two to speak at Easter. What kind of denial do you exist in when you try and run for public office ? The sheer gall of it is astounding. What next open a day care center ?

 

[Eagle1]

We hear you loud and clear but "Innocent Until Proven Guilty in a Court of Law" is still the law and ruling principle. The facts just aren't all in yet. Puzzle pieces are missing. The story is worth working on to try to fill in all the holes, quite a job but it's worth all the effort.

 

[Rupert]

Some people outright think the R's were "obfuscating" and "lying" = Black
Some people like me think either that or they just got protective = Grey
Some (I think fewer) people think they are just victims of the media = White

Was it intended murder by a family member or aquaintance with a beef with John? Was it a rage accident by a family member?

The note was written to either just complicate and throw off or give some clues to the beef. The speculative clues in the RN, while they seem interesting, have not got us anywhere to a clear understanding of why the beef. Unless of course there are subtle clues which are intended only for the R's, but then why hold back? Kind of gets Black to me.

One ray of hope: we might be dealing with a very vengeful and smart intruder who never wants this puzzle solved. S.B.T.C = silliness

 

[sharpar]

Rupert

purple = another abusive ( punishing ) event that went too far. I dont think the anger/ rage was over an event but deep seated in the abuser as a personality trait from events in the abusers life prior to marriage and parenthood.
That poor child was a proxy/ target to act out the anger the abuser feels.
She was assigned the role of target by the abuser probably at a very young age . This rage vent abuse thing was going on in much milder forms for quite some time is my feeling. Slowly escalating into such an extreme that it caused her death.

The ransom note was a deliberate message to the other parent and also to misdirect LE .

 

[Rupert]

Rupert

purple = another abusive ( punishing ) event that went too far. I dont think the anger/ rage was over an event but deep seated in the abuser as a personality trait from events in the abusers life prior to marriage and parenthood.
That poor child was a proxy/ target to act out the anger the abuser feels.
She was assigned the role of target by the abuser probably at a very young age . This rage vent abuse thing was going on in much milder forms for quite some time is my feeling. Slowly escalating into such an extreme that it caused her death.

The ransom note was a deliberate message to the other parent and also to misdirect LE .

Yes, I know what you are talking about. I even watched the movie after reading their book which included the purple ribbons in the Christmas trees plus the poem by Susan M. about JonBenet being "not of this world" (by the way wasn't that actually quoted in the Patricia Letters?). That poem basically posed that God kind of made JonBenet a sacrifice (but what for?). I would like to think that it was a comforting letter.

 

[sharpar]

I dont know why anyone would think she would need to be a sacrifice for God.
I would think Jesus pretty much ended the need for that ritual. That idea I find
pretty strange too.
Her murder was by the hands of man and doubt GOD was involved or would approve of it.
I have read the Patricia letters and the poem but not sure now if it the poem was mentioned in the letters.
Someone else may know.

 

[Eagle1]

The Krepps thing then got me thinking about Singular:
http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/famous/singular/connection_2.html....His theory is interesting and seems to make various things fit.

Does someone have a link to the Poem? I for one am not sure I ever read it. I did notice the phone caller's making a weird noise, "not of this world" in the Patricia Letters.

The Crime Library link in this quote is a good one. Mind if I post a copy/paste paragraph of it, which raises the question Why did the R's not latch onto the Krebs woman's testimony to get themselves off the hook.

" This woman came forward and talked about a pedophilic group in Boulder with connections to their family, and she suggested that this group might have played a role in their daughter's death. The Ramseys wanted absolutely nothing to do with her -- even though she was talking about things that appeared to exonerate them in the murder of their child. What does this tell you? They don't want this pedophile door opened even one crack. The secrets of the case, I believe, lie in there and they (or at least one of the parents) don't want anyone to explore this realm of child exploitation, abuse, and . It is better to be accused of being a murderer than to have other things come out. Hunter took her seriously, but the BPD, which interviewed her and was the agency that should have investigated her claims, dismissed her the same way they've dismissed everyone and everything that haven't fit their scenario. For the Ramseys, or one Ramsey, there appeared to be a worse scenario than having both Patsy and their young son Burke being publicly accused, for the past three years, of killing JonBenet. That scenario had to do with making their daughter the victim of a child sex ring in Boulder. Why was this more threatening than having your family members accused of the most terrible thing a person can do?" End of quote.

And about the idea of her being sacrificed, isn't that Celtic? Like the harp? And maybe even the original Santa idea?

Sharpar is so right that Christ was sacrificed for Christianity, never said for us to go and do likewise, unless in case of unavoidable martyrdom of course, staying loyal, not denouncing belief. That sacrifice idea is simply Celtic, and I guess Aztec Indian in S. America, more human religions like the one that came up with the song "Tis a gift to be simple." Christianity seems to be the only religion where the test of an idea is, Does it harm even one, of the least? It's the Human Rights religion. Least individuals equally important.

 

[Rupert]

I am very sure that the poem by Susan M. in Death of innocence included "not of this world".

I recall after browsing for an hour on the Patricia Letters (over at Candy Rose), that "not of this world" was also included in one of the Patricia Letters. I will have to go back and find it.

Another coincidence? I think not. Does anyone know: did the Patricia Letters come out before the Death of Innocence? If so, that would be very interesting.

Watch the movie: "The Color Purple". As you know the color "purple" relates to sacrifice at Easter, as PR pointed out in Death of innocence.

I must admit, I never saw the movie: "The Color Purple" until JonBenet. After I read DOI and reading about on JonBenet forums and checking out all the movies: "Ransom", "Speed", "Ruthless People", "Seven", etc., I decided to also check out The Color of Purple. If anything, I learned something. I had a good upbringing and it was good to open my eyes up to this strife.

 

[Rupert]

Criminy in 2001 posted over on Cybersleuths: http://www.cybersleuths.com/
"In DOI, Patsy says that a woman named Susan Merriman sent her a poem that held special meaning for her."

Criminy said: "To me, this poem is schmaltzy and silly, ludicrous and blasphemous, all at the same time."
"The Shooting Star"
by Susan Merriman
(pages 256 - 258 of DOI)

The heavenly father called to her,
As softly as a prayer,
And she, a spirit filled with joy,
Did hasten to Him there.

Upon His sturdy knee she climbed,
And snuggled to his chest;
The Heavenly Father spoke to her
And presented his request.

You see, He said, with love divine,
I sent my only son,
To save the world and make it mine;
The victory's been won.

But battle to the end we must
And that is why I ask
If you would go to earth for me
And carry out a task.

Whatever Lord you want from me,
Replied the trembling spirit;
I'd gladly give my soul for Thee.
Let all the angels hear it!

I knew that I could count on you,
Oh daughter of my Heart,
For you will blaze with glory,
Then suffer and depart.

To John and Patsy Ramsey
The newborn baby came,
Bringing trailing clouds of glory,
To their beautiful domain.

And as she grew, she glimmered,
Like a sunny winter day;
Her face glowed like an angel's,
And it was JonBenet.

And every now and then it seemed,
She heard the Master's voice,
A gentle, soft reminder,
Of her life, her cup, her choice.

Swiftly did the years go by,
Love, laughter, joy, abounded
The Ramsey family strengthened and
Through trials they rebounded.

No one on earth can understand
The intricate web of the Master's plan
To send to earth for the blink of an eye
A tender child destined to die.

And so it was with JonBenet
Who touched the heart of God
And He was there on that fateful day
With His tear, His staff, His rod.

A crown was placed on her golden head
As her soul to Heaven ascended;
Well, done, my daughter, said the Lord,
Your pain, your suffering, has ended.

You were never of the world, He said,
Just as I of the word was not;
But for a time you blessed the world,
And your life was not for naught.

For today on earth the world mourns,
And God reaches from afar,
To hold the hearts of those who weep,
For this tiny shooting star.

And JonBenet with heart contented,
Dances a distant step,
Twirling, laughing in God's arms,
Her promise she has kept.

 

[Eagle1]

You did a lot of work finding all that.

I have a printout of the Pa;tricia Letter locked away in a stuffed file cabinet, I may have to go into if nobody else comes up with it. Please, not the file cabinet ! I didn't want to lose it. And a lot of other things.

Just from memory, which I admit could be faulty, I really don't think her expression "not of this world" was borrowed from the poem, because the person phoning her during the Grand Jury, obviously NERVOUS that something would be revealed, was/is that crazy, the caller from hell, so to speak. Just an opinion, obviously.

Also I didn't know that was what The Color Purple was about, and I don't think you could name any Christian denomination that teaches human sacrifice. Theology is that Christ was the sacrifice for all. The test of whether an idea is Christian is Does it harm even one, of the least. Because whatever you do to one, of the least, "you do it unto me", Christ Himself.

I don't know about the Boulder pagans, Celtic, but Patsy was Christian, may not have even known the "Unity" church believed in human sacrifice, IF it does, which I really don't know. Wasn't McReynolds a member of that?

 

[Rupert]

Eagle1,

Maybe it was borrowed from the poem; maybe it was not. Just like too many other vague things in this case, "not of this world" is another tantalizing clue but nothing to hang our hat on.

Re "sacrifice" take a look at http://www.seraph.net/jonbenet.html. It's old to me and one possible explanation. I've been on both sides of the fence (IDI or RDI). I keep an open mind, but that poem and the color purple plus the my twin doll keeps me wondering (puzzling). By the way I think the movie: "The Color Purple" suggests that one needs to make a sacrifice to forgive and stop the inherited abuse and revenge.

However on your Santa theory, see over on: http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread181905/pg1:

Amethyst looked up 118 in the kabbalisticency and found 118 is the symbol for Demon King of the North. And the replier noted: "Isaiah 14:12-14 reads: How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. And where does Santa (whom I call the god of Xmas) allegedly reside? The NORTH Pole!"

Be aware the Bible is full of connections inherited and transformed from many other religions. I am also aware of the Celtic Dec 26 Wednesday ritual. Irish? I have my alternate theory, but it is scary and if wrong too hurtful.

 

[Eagle1]

Okay, I'll bite. What's that?

I'm very familiar with Isaiah 14 about a heretic trying to take over the world and religion, destroying his own nation. Cross reference, 2nd Corinthians 11, Satan himself poses as one of the messengers of light, and they say Lucifer means light. Prophecy is one of my hobbies. And they often have documentaries about it on the History channel as well as A & E. Never heard of the word above.

 

[rashomon]

But LE, all the way to the top, and I think most of us parents, strongly feel that the R's couldn't have done this. Some parents may be that sick, but not this couple .

In one pageant both Patsy and JonBenet dressed as Marilyn Monroe. I think that's pretty sick and also a form of sexual child abuse.
No doubt this child grew up in a sexualized atmosphere, with a mother living vicariously through her young daughter.

 

[narlacat]

Patsy dressing JonBenét in that Marilyn Munroe outfit boggles my mind.
What was she thinking
I think it is a form of child abuse too, that poor child was robbed of her childhood in more ways than one.

 

[tipper]

Patsy dressing JonBenét in that Marilyn Munroe outfit boggles my mind.
What was she thinking
I think it is a form of child abuse too, that poor child was robbed of her childhood in more ways than one.

Why do you think ST thought she had had and would have had a great time growing up?

 

[narlacat]

Well, as I recall ST thought JonBenét would have chosen her own course in life, stating Miss America was the least she could have been.
He thought she would make up her own mind, eventually rejecting the plastic lifestyle her mother so enjoyed.
Actually I didn't quite understand your question Tipper.....ST thought she had had what??

 

[tipper]

Well, as I recall ST thought JonBenét would have chosen her own course in life, stating Miss America was the least she could have been.
He thought she would make up her own mind, eventually rejecting the plastic lifestyle her mother so enjoyed.
Actually I didn't quite understand your question Tipper.....ST thought she had had what??

He thought she had had a great childhood.