Were Caylee's Remains Moved?

[Solace]

Solace, FWIW I agree with you. I think the "hits" in the backyard came from the gas cans or possibly from Caylee (attempt to stage an accidental drowning?) but not from Cindy or George removing items from the car. Aside from what Cindy admitted, the only other thing they may have done is wipe down the car because it reeked of "pizza" or maybe just looked untidy. IIRC, LE found only one fingerprint belonging to Casey and that leads me to believe someone wiped the car clean. My thinking is it was George (maybe Cindy) and only done because it's a George-thing to do, keep the cars clean. If Cindy, George or Lee attempted any blatant cover-up, we never would have heard about the smelly pants or the knife. That's not to say the defense won't try to cast some suspicion their way. Anyone who ever spent more than 5 minutes within 10 feet of Casey will be a target and that will be a major problem. They will throw out so many wild theories and claim a dozen or so SODDIs and the jury will sit there with their heads spinning.

Caylee's body was taken from the Anthony house, put in Casey's trunk and then dumped the woods, all via Casey's hands.

Thanks for the post and I agree with you. This is Casey's doing.

 

[Just Jayla]

IF she did have help, I believe it was from, Lee

There was a time when I would have said no way....but! Lee is the only one in her immediate family (and I agree with a previous poster that there is no way a friend would help her, except maybe WillW, and I don't think so) that has that part of his brain that functions in a 'higher' (read: sociopathic, remorseless) capacity, in the sense that he would be able to function with this knowledge. Even his slams on his sister are minimal, and I am sure he told her he would have to sometimes agree with LE in order for their little plan to be effective.
The only divergences are when he is speaking to John Morgan and basically tells him he has to play mind games with KC to get the truth out of her, and when KC tells GA she does not want LA to visit her in jail because it will be an inquisition. Also, her accusations of molestation against Lee, some of which were made well before the murder-does he consider those a small price to pay in lieu of her naming his as an accomplice?

 

[txsvicki]

I can't believe that Casey would risk driving around with Caylee in the trunk, but think that she hid her somewhere for 2 days (whatever the body farm said the decomp age was in the trunk), then moved the bag over to the site. Casey probably didn't realize there would be leakage, and that messed up her car jacking/kidnap plan. I don't think the A.'s covered anything up unless there was something about the flurry of calls made to the both of them on the afternoon Caylee died. George may have covered up the odor, because he should have smelled it when he caught Casey with the gas cans. The body farm has proven that the decomp odor was from a person dead about 2.5 days, right?

 

[Horace Finklestein]

I just can't help but think if Casey had assistance, that person would be blamed 100% by her lawyers and her.

 

[countzero]

Color me confused JB but where exactly do you THINK Caylee was moved from???:waitasec: Your SODDI theory is shot to the sky and failed to fall back to Earth; ICA wasted herself and 31 days not looking for Caylee and wasted 31 days doing shots in Fusion, party houses and Tony. No one else had control of Caylee during these 31 wasted days and nights but ICA.

So where exactly are you saying Caylee was during these 31 wasted days????

 

[LambChop]

In the Florida heat it would take a small child a short period of time to decompose. Exposed to the elements, animals, insects even faster. No one moved the body because by the time it was discovered that Caylee was missing her bones were pretty much scattered in that general area. Hurricane Fay came in and covered that whole area with water until late November so someone putting the body there is near impossible. They found some of her remains buried in mud where there was once water. JB's theory...."Fairyland". jmo

 

[krisskross]

I can't believe that Casey would risk driving around with Caylee in the trunk, but think that she hid her somewhere for 2 days (whatever the body farm said the decomp age was in the trunk), then moved the bag over to the site. Casey probably didn't realize there would be leakage, and that messed up her car jacking/kidnap plan. I don't think the A.'s covered anything up unless there was something about the flurry of calls made to the both of them on the afternoon Caylee died. George may have covered up the odor, because he should have smelled it when he caught Casey with the gas cans. The body farm has proven that the decomp odor was from a person dead about 2.5 days, right?

Dr Haskill's concurs with Dr Vass that there was a "decompositional event" within the trunk of the pontiac. His report is heavily influenced by the absence of blow flies (first stage scavengers) versus the presence and collonization of coffin/scuttle flies (are attracted to more advanced stage of decomp) So, if not the trunk, Casey Anthony would have to have placed Caylee in a sealed evironment very soon after death. :waitasec:

If I have an understanding of Dr Vass's work, he has constructed a specialised data base of gases/chemical compounds that are emitted by decomposing humans. These gases/chemical compounds occur at certain stages of decomposition but would be influenced by known variables, e.g. environment, temperature, insect activity, the deceased. So, I dont see how leakage of bodily fluids in itself could account for the results of the air samples.

 

[txsvicki]

Dr Haskill's concurs with Dr Vass that there was a "decompositional event" within the trunk of the pontiac. His report is heavily influenced by the absence of blow flies (first stage scavengers) versus the presence and collonization of coffin/scuttle flies (are attracted to more advanced stage of decomp) So, if not the trunk, Casey Anthony would have to have placed Caylee in a sealed evironment very soon after death. :waitasec:

If I have an understanding of Dr Vass's work, he has constructed a specialised data base of gases/chemical compounds that are emitted by decomposing humans. These gases/chemical compounds occur at certain stages of decomposition but would be influenced by known variables, e.g. environment, temperature, insect activity, the deceased. So, I dont see how leakage of bodily fluids in itself could account for the results of the air samples.

Do you think Caylee was in the trunk the whole time? The car smelled so bad when George picked it up, how did no one at all the apartments that Casey stayed at or visited ever smell it? Even the mail carrier at the Anthony's should have smelled something, because Casey went home practically every day. I hope we hear lots about this during the trial.

 

[krisskross]

Do you think Caylee was in the trunk the whole time? The car smelled so bad when George picked it up, how did no one at all the apartments that Casey stayed at or visited ever smell it? Even the mail carrier at the Anthony's should have smelled something, because Casey went home practically every day. I hope we hear lots about this during the trial.

Hi txsvicki

Going by Haskill's report and the air sample results, Yes I think Caylee was placed in the trunk very soon after death. Then she went on her hot date.

Decomp fluid would still attract the flies and we do know that live maggots were within the trash bag 19 days after she left the car at Amscot. So the decomp fluid left behind seems to have been enough to sustain more generations of coffin flies. I also think Cindy did more than remove some items and wash a pair of slacks. I think she saw maggots in the trunk and duly got rid of them. But that's by the by.

I think both George and the towyard guy said the smell before opening the trunk was markedly less noticeable that afterwards. That said, you raise what I suspect the defense will raise about the smell. Her car was supposedly parked in Tony Lazarro's apartment complex where potentially other people could have smelled an odour. And Tony stood along side her as she poured the stolen gasoline on June 23rd.

My own theory FWIW is that after dumping Caylee round the 20th (if not sooner), Casey Anthony gave the trunk a cursory clean and essentially thought the problem was gone. It wasn't ....because certain gases and decomp fluid and fly larvae (maggots themselves stink after feeding)were left behind. I think the smell continued to worsen. We dont know if she opened the trunk again, before 23rd. And I can't explain why she would risk it that day with Lazarro, except that she daren't leave her car where she broke down. Too close to home, and she's telling Cindy she's in Tampa. Maybe she had her squirrel theory all ready :great: Master criminal she is not.:crazy: Like you ,I hope we find out at trial. Actually I think the Prosectuion are going to have to lay this out for a jury.

 

[dustyrose46]

Hello Everyone
I sure enjoy the topics here, and the mature convo's. Thank You Trish for a pleasant place to read.

Here's the thing about the 2.6 days. The hair showed 2.6 days. It dont mean she was in that trunk for 2.6 days. I have studied this and studied this. The stain in the trunk most certainly would have to be her being there not concealed. Possibly laying on the pooh blanket yes. The void on the pooh blanket matches the stain ( positioning of Caylee) in the trunk. Caylee was in that trunk on that pooh blanket laying on her right side in the fetal position.
The blanket would obsorb the purging from decomposition ( so sad), but leak through onto the trunk liner leaving the outline. She was then placed in the first trash bag and that bag was tied. Now following the yard hits, this is the tough part to determine if caylee was placed in the yard ( by looking at the flags during the dig in the yard), prior to being bagged at all, or if she was in the trunk then the yard then bagged. One of the experts stated early on that the stench could be from being in that trunk for up too 2 wks, but in the florida heat could be much less time.
The puzzle that don't fit is when did she actually get placed in either place is right. Also, LE nieves, and padilla made a media report during the yard search and said they did find some things from the back yard and they were being analyzed and tested at that time. Nothing else come from that thus far that I am aware.
If you go back, you'll remember Cindy saying Caylee had been moved 9 times. How would she know ?

 

[dustyrose46]

Yes, KrissKross, George stated he could smell the smell within 3 ft of the car if I remember correctly.
Now what I also find interesting is when Cindy was doing her spewing in front of the house about the tow yard, and maybe someone placed a dead body in the car while at the tow yard. ( ohhh thats a bad statement IMO).
She says, the tow guy didn't smell anything until a week later after picking up the car. So this to me points me in the direction that Caylee may have been in that car, died there, started to decompose, purged, she then was removed, placed in the yard, then during the week of June 24th she was placed back into the car and disposed on June 27th. just before the car was. Just as you stated, the purging would be enough to generate more flies, and growth of maggots. ( Alone). The smell would eventually permiate that car through time with just the purging. June 25th the text msg to Amy about the smell. The 27th The smell has been discovered and taken care of.

 

[LambChop]

Not sure hair shows a timeline for decomposition only that the banding on the hair is from the body of the deceased. If the body was in the trunk while she was in Blockbuster by the time she would have gotten back to it the following day, late in the day, the body was in full rigor. It is highly doubtful that KC removed the body from the trunk during that process. The fact that the neighbor reported her backing the car into the garage for two consecutive days would lead us to believe the body was still in the trunk. Those two days she may have been trying to figure out where to bury the body. I think she fully intended to bury her in the backyard. When that did not work the site down the street became the final resting place. Borrowing the shovel is a big red flag... jmo

 

[dustyrose46]

Yes, lambchop. That could be when Caylee was taken from the car. 16th - 19th. 2.6 days ? Yes the band on the hair, i read it showed a death time of 2.6 days approx.

 

[dustyrose46]

I had thought when that result came out it meant she was in the car for 2.6 days. But then discovered the death band result was approx length of time. The hair fell out w/ the band on it. To me ( IMO ) is when she was removed from the trunk, and that hair was left behind.
Now what may be argued is that Caylee remained alive until 2.6 days before the car was disposed ? So who had her then? Remember George stating about Casey using Cindy's car after the report of the gas cans, and he was asked during that conversation " where was Casey's car" at that time? He said it was at the house. I found that the green runner was on the epass on June 26th at the time he specifies she had the runner. So if this being true, then the pontiac was left unattended by Casey at the house on that day. George also said, Cindy was home at the time, and Casey had permission to use Cindy's car that day. When Cindy was asked she goes into cover mode and saying George must be talking about back earlier in the year, and denies it all.

 

[dustyrose46]

I feel that both these women are so used to covering each others stories to hide things from George, because George was always being the " fn" cop as Casey would put it. He is the one who tried to confront Casey on things and Cindy would say no George, you'll just upset her, I'll handle it.
He even found out she wasnt working at sports authority too, and the whole thing about the robbery there was a total lie.
I also believe Cindy's bank account was an open check book for Casey for quite sometime, and she enabled Casey to go on with her lie of having a job she knew she didn't have to keep George's mouth shut.
Cindy also stated to Debbie, ( not sure which one, but the coworker) that she couldn't afford to raise Caylee, and she'd have to get a babysitter if she took custody. ( wow!) Why need a babysitter if Caylee already had one ? LIE LIE LIE , cover up cover up. Cindy knew there was no sitter. I also feel that Cindy does what she does to protect her own self from prosecution.

 

[dustyrose46]

I respect everyone's thoughts, and we're all going to be crazy by the time its over lol. Great posts everybody. Your all great minds.

 

[azwriter]

Not sure hair shows a timeline for decomposition only that the banding on the hair is from the body of the deceased. If the body was in the trunk while she was in Blockbuster by the time she would have gotten back to it the following day, late in the day, the body was in full rigor. It is highly doubtful that KC removed the body from the trunk during that process. The fact that the neighbor reported her backing the car into the garage for two consecutive days would lead us to believe the body was still in the trunk. Those two days she may have been trying to figure out where to bury the body. I think she fully intended to bury her in the backyard. When that did not work the site down the street became the final resting place. Borrowing the shovel is a big red flag... jmo

Lamb, like you, I think the shovel plays a part in Casey's effort in what to do with her child's dead body. I think it's obvious, Casey didn't have an advance plan on how to dispose of a dead body. But as others have pointed out, Casey never had an advance plan for most things she did. She lived in the moment.
If Caylee's death was an accident, perhaps and overdose, how much panic was Casey feeling? I suspect if she was in a panic, she wouldn't be able to formulate a perfect plan to hide a body.
So was the borrowed shovel initially to be used to dig a grave in the backyard, or did Casey see it as a tool to pick up a dead body?
With panic and the lack of being able to form a plan, I too can see where Casey would think only so far as what had worked before when she was trying to get rid of something dead, take it to the woods as she did with a pet.
We are not discussing someone with a great deal of cunning and intelligence when it comes to hiding the death, or the body. I think she would take the easy way out for herself mainly because she isn't a master mind when it comes to crimes.
Lately, however, as I read here, I continue to switch back and forth as to how much of a role did her father, George have in disposing of the body. Part of me says if he was involved, Caylee's body would have been taken further away from the home. But then I think, George might have a better plan but he would be too lazy to do anything that would take more of his time.
In all, just trying to figure out what was done makes me weep more for a little girl who did not deserve to leave this world.
jmo

 

[LancelotLink]

Wasn't there something in the reports about an indention in the backyard? As if someone had started digging and then changed their mind?

 

[countzero]

Wasn't there something in the reports about an indention in the backyard? As if someone had started digging and then changed their mind?

The As claimed, termed used extremely loose, they were adding pavers to the backyard during this time period. iirc, LE wanted to see if the pavers found near Caylee's remains matched them. I don't believe they did, but then again the results might be in those 10k released docs.

 

[LambChop]

Lately, however, as I read here, I continue to switch back and forth as to how much of a role did her father, George have in disposing of the body. Part of me says if he was involved, Caylee's body would have been taken further away from the home. But then I think, George might have a better plan but he would be too lazy to do anything that would take more of his time.
In all, just trying to figure out what was done makes me weep more for a little girl who did not deserve to leave this world.
jmo

Snipped: If you are thinking of anyone other than KC disposing of the body at the site remember one thing. Once the body started to decompose no matter where that body was it would smell like decomp. So if GA's car was clean there is little chance he moved her. The only car that reeked was KC's and since KC was the only one with the car it is pretty clear who put the body there. The body had to get there via a vehicle because I don't think anyone would have walked it that far from the house without detection. jmo