What are the consistencies in the Routier's stories?

[Goody]

It's not a pro photo. It's one taken at her house. I was not trying to diagnose Darlie, it is my opinion that she looks very different. I don't think burning the potatoes would cause her to forget to put her makeup on or wash her hair. I'm not the only one who noticed a difference. Darlie's friends have said the same thing. She stopped caring about things and she stayed in her room all the time. So if I was just getting that from a photo, fine, I'm way off base. I'm not just going by the photos though. I am saying I believe her friends when they say there was a difference because I see it too.

Well, I don't know who these friends are. I have been dying to talk to some of them about this very thing. I can't seem to find hide nor hair of them. So if have an in with them, please invite them here and let's hear what they have to say.

If what you say is correct, you have nailed the motive. It would not be about money at all if depression is in the mix. It would be about a woman whose emotions were out of control, who lost it suddenly and killed at least one child and then scurried around trying to come up with a way out of it. That sort of eliminates premeditation, doesn't it?

 

[Goody]

Why in the world does that matter? She had a boyfriend before Darin at age 14. It makes no difference where she was.

None of your friends had a boyfriend at age 14. My classmates certainly did. I think I went to the movies with a boy at that age for the first time. Only daytime stuff, of course. But the popular kids had boys over their houses all the time. So I don't know what that tells us about Darlie. The relationship described in the book did sort of disturb me when I read it, but parents are a lot more lax about that sort of thing these days than they were back in the 60s...and shoot even then girls had boyfriends at age 14. Loretta Lynn was married at age 13 and had 6 kids before she was 21. If Darin and this other boy were the only two she dated, I would say she was a pretty settled kid who went for committed relationships rather than one night stands, etc. I guess I don't know where you observation is leading.

 

[Mary456]

Well, I don't know who these friends are. I have been dying to talk to some of them about this very thing. I can't seem to find hide nor hair of them. So if have an in with them, please invite them here and let's hear what they have to say.

If what you say is correct, you have nailed the motive. It would not be about money at all if depression is in the mix. It would be about a woman whose emotions were out of control, who lost it suddenly and killed at least one child and then scurried around trying to come up with a way out of it. That sort of eliminates premeditation, doesn't it?

For a long time, Goody, I thought she just snapped, and staged the scene afterward.

But I don't think that anymore. The window screen, the garage, even the ground outside the garage had no blood evidence. She cut that screen before any blood was shed. There is no way she could have stabbed those boys and then cut the screen. She would have left some blood somewhere around the window or on the garage floor. Blood has a way of getting on everything.

I don't think she premeditated their murders for a long time...maybe a few hours. But she did premeditate, imo.

 

[beesy]

None of your friends had a boyfriend at age 14. My classmates certainly did. I think I went to the movies with a boy at that age for the first time. Only daytime stuff, of course. But the popular kids had boys over their houses all the time. So I don't know what that tells us about Darlie. The relationship described in the book did sort of disturb me when I read it, but parents are a lot more lax about that sort of thing these days than they were back in the 60s...and shoot even then girls had boyfriends at age 14. Loretta Lynn was married at age 13 and had 6 kids before she was 21. If Darin and this other boy were the only two she dated, I would say she was a pretty settled kid who went for committed relationships rather than one night stands, etc. I guess I don't know where you observation is leading.

Goody, your post said you did not think Darlie had a chance to do anything before she met Darin. I'm telling you she did have a chance because she had a boyfriend, whom she saw alot of. You also said if she did have sex she'd be underage and therefore not responsible. I was pointing out that IF she did have sex at 14, it wasn't rape. It was with a boy the same age. IF! That is all I'm saying. I obviously don't think she had one night stands when I'm telling you she had a boyfriend.
Of course I had a boyfriend at 14. We dated until I was 17. I am a big Loretta Lynn fan. That's sort of a way out there example. Loretta did not have the life most of us have. She still doesn't.

 

[deanws]

You just see what you want to see. I have looked at the pics at justicefordarlie and I don't see anything unusual about them at all. I think you - all are making a mountain out of a molehill, trying to squeeze out a conclusion that supports your theories. No offense, but I don't know any doctor who would are to make a diagnosis based on some photos on the internet. Darlie may have been depressed but you will never prove it with her photos. I dare you to try.

And I think you are closing your eyes to the way that everything is stacking up. YOU are the one that is going overboard on defending her. You are the one that is ignoring that she was depressed. Even her friends and family said she was depressed about being pregnant, and only the thought of her having a girl made her pregnancy bearable. I know you are going to say...where did you see this? In the books Cami let me borrow.

 

[beesy]

You just see what you want to see. I have looked at the pics at justicefordarlie and I don't see anything unusual about them at all. I think you - all are making a mountain out of a molehill, trying to squeeze out a conclusion that supports your theories. No offense, but I don't know any doctor who would are to make a diagnosis based on some photos on the internet. Darlie may have been depressed but you will never prove it with her photos. I dare you to try.

I'm looking at Pam's and my posts and I don't see anything that says we are diagnosing Darlie. I hope to god my Dr. never diagnoses me from a picture. I have said Darlie looks amazingly different. And then I have said not caring about your appearance can be a sign of depression. Especially someone like Darlie who has always been so nitpicky about her looks. All we have done is point out the difference and note that it could be a symptom.

 

[Goody]

For a long time, Goody, I thought she just snapped, and staged the scene afterward.

But I don't think that anymore. The window screen, the garage, even the ground outside the garage had no blood evidence. She cut that screen before any blood was shed. There is no way she could have stabbed those boys and then cut the screen. She would have left some blood somewhere around the window or on the garage floor. Blood has a way of getting on everything.

I don't think she premeditated their murders for a long time...maybe a few hours. But she did premeditate, imo.

I agree with you, Mary. It is easy to start connecting depression dots that lead to just another mother who snapped, but so many little things don't fit into that theory. I was just pointing out to beesy where her opinions might be leading.

Interesting what you say about blood. Everytime I eat spaghetti, I think of this case. (Gross, huh?) Because no matter how hard I try to dainty and ladylike, I end up getting it all over my shirt and the table, and if I am posting, it gets on the monitor screen. I can be positived I took every precaution and the next thing you know, there it is. Another funny thing about it, you can't always see it until it dries. I bet blood is like that, too. Might explain why perps screw up so much.

Personally, I think the turning point was the day she tried/threatened to commit suicide. But I also don't think it was any accident that the boys dumped out half the water in the hot tub angering both parents on the same day they were killed. So for me the dots start in May and lead up to June 6th.

 

[Goody]

I'm looking at Pam's and my posts and I don't see anything that says we are diagnosing Darlie. I hope to god my Dr. never diagnoses me from a picture. I have said Darlie looks amazingly different. And then I have said not caring about your appearance can be a sign of depression. Especially someone like Darlie who has always been so nitpicky about her looks. All we have done is point out the difference and note that it could be a symptom.

This is what started the discussion here:No, I wasn't saying Darlie is different from other people. I was saying she changed in the photos. The pictures are telling us something. They are telling us that Darlie was depressed in the months before the murders. No makeup, greasy hair, half-hearted smile. But it's not that, there's no spark in her eyes anymore. Darlie always smiled like she had a little secret. She had a pretty smile and her eyes were always lit up. The twinkle had faded away in that photo of her and Drake.

I probably should go look at the photo, but aren't you saying that the photos tell you that she was depressed, and isn't depression the number one cause of domestic violence (or darned close)? Wouldn't going back to the fact that she didn't have a girl as the reason she did this be over simplifying it? Not having a girl may have been a recent disappointment but I don't see that as the trigger that made her kill the boys. But then if you are just pointing out that she was depressed and that is where it starts and stops....:waitasec: I will be really scratching my head/

 

[deanws]

I'm looking at Pam's and my posts and I don't see anything that says we are diagnosing Darlie. I hope to god my Dr. never diagnoses me from a picture. I have said Darlie looks amazingly different. And then I have said not caring about your appearance can be a sign of depression. Especially someone like Darlie who has always been so nitpicky about her looks. All we have done is point out the difference and note that it could be a symptom.

Also, diet pills have been known to cause depression. It is not one thing, but MANY things that point to the fact that she was depressed. I know we both see that. Also, sleep disturbances are another sign of depression. A loss of energy and a change in your habits are all classic signs. I looked at this check list and she seems to fit the bill. Of course I am not a doctor...but my son is well on his way of being one! :dance: AND a SHRINK at that! LOL:woohoo:

Depressed mood
Persistent feelings of hopelessness, guilt or worthlessness
Fatigue or lack of energy
Slowed behavior (the feeling of "dragging oneself around")
Reduction or loss of pleasure in life
Decreased motivation
Negative or pessimistic thinking
Loss of interest in friends, activities, hobbies or work
Change in eating habits; weight gain or loss
Sleep problems, including waking up early
Frequent crying
Difficulty concentrating, remembering, or making decisions
Irritability
Being anxious or worried a lot
Thoughts of death or suicide
Suicide attempt

 

[deanws]

This is what started the discussion here:No, I wasn't saying Darlie is different from other people. I was saying she changed in the photos. The pictures are telling us something. They are telling us that Darlie was depressed in the months before the murders. No makeup, greasy hair, half-hearted smile. But it's not that, there's no spark in her eyes anymore. Darlie always smiled like she had a little secret. She had a pretty smile and her eyes were always lit up. The twinkle had faded away in that photo of her and Drake.

I probably should go look at the photo, but aren't you saying that the photos tell you that she was depressed, and isn't depression the number one cause of domestic violence (or darned close)? Wouldn't going back to the fact that she didn't have a girl as the reason she did this be over simplifying it? Not having a girl may have been a recent disappointment but I don't see that as the trigger that made her kill the boys. But then if you are just pointing out that she was depressed and that is where it starts and stops....:waitasec: I will be really scratching my head/

No one said that she killed the boys because she didn't have a girl. Goody...you jump to some strange conclusions. I said that it was another factor in her overall depressive state of mind.

 

[beesy]

I agree with you, Mary. It is easy to start connecting depression dots that lead to just another mother who snapped, but so many little things don't fit into that theory. I was just pointing out to beesy where her opinions might be leading

No, that is not where I'm going nor what I'm thinking. It never has been. I do not think Darlie snapped. I think she was depressed which made it more difficult for her to handle all of the other crap that was going on. The diet pills, the money troubles, husband troubles, she faced an entire summer at home alone with the boys. She did not snap. Why is it that you think I'm saying she snapped because I think she was depressed?

Personally, I think the turning point was the day she tried/threatened to commit suicide. But I also don't think it was any accident that the boys dumped out half the water in the hot tub angering both parents on the same day they were killed. So for me the dots start in May and lead up to June 6th.

Well, didn't something make her attempt/threaten whatever the heck she did? She didn't wake up that day in May and say "my life sucks" People do not commit suicide because they have a few crappy days. Usually there is something that puts you at a point of no return. I think Darlie went speeding downhill after that night in May. It didn't help that they were turned down for that measley loan of 5 grand either. I am not giving her an excuse for murder. I hate that! Women should not be allowed to say I had PPD and killed my kids, let me off without a single day in jail. That is putting us down. Something was wrong with Darlie that somebody should have caught. Maybe, just maybe, all of that other stuff wouldn't have pushed her over the edge if she had been helped. Maybe!

 

[deanws]

I wish it could have been caught too beesy. I can't hardly stand to look at the pictures of those two boys. It makes me so very sad.

 

[beesy]

This is what started the discussion here:No, I wasn't saying Darlie is different from other people. I was saying she changed in the photos. The pictures are telling us something. They are telling us that Darlie was depressed in the months before the murders. No makeup, greasy hair, half-hearted smile. But it's not that, there's no spark in her eyes anymore. Darlie always smiled like she had a little secret. She had a pretty smile and her eyes were always lit up. The twinkle had faded away in that photo of her and Drake.

I probably should go look at the photo, but aren't you saying that the photos tell you that she was depressed, and isn't depression the number one cause of domestic violence (or darned close)? Wouldn't going back to the fact that she didn't have a girl as the reason she did this be over simplifying it? Not having a girl may have been a recent disappointment but I don't see that as the trigger that made her kill the boys. But then if you are just pointing out that she was depressed and that is where it starts and stops....:waitasec: I will be really scratching my head/

Nobody has said she killed her sons over not having a girl. It was just one more thing on the pile of crap Darlie saw as her life. Darlie did not want Drake. She managed to come out of her initial depression over the pregnancy when she made up her mind she was having a girl. After the ultrasound when she found out it was another boy, she took to her bed for 3 weeks. So she wasn't very happy about Drake to start with. I am not saying she had PPD, but something was not right with her. None of the reasons we've thought up are an excuse for her to kill those boys. It's the whole package. And even that doesn't make sense because we aren't Darlie. I do not think Darlie's depression CAUSED her to kill the boys, but it didn't help either. It would have put her in a place where she couldn't see a way out. People put on blinders when they are depressed. All of those little things became HUGE things and it just caved in on her.

 

[beesy]

But I don't think that anymore. The window screen, the garage, even the ground outside the garage had no blood evidence. She cut that screen before any blood was shed. There is no way she could have stabbed those boys and then cut the screen. She would have left some blood somewhere around the window or on the garage floor. Blood has a way of getting on everything.
I don't think she premeditated their murders for a long time...maybe a few hours. But she did premeditate, imo.

I think it was planned too. Darlie had alot of time to stew while Darin was driving Dana home that night. What you said about heat rising was pretty funny :furious: . I think she probably had it in her head for several months, or more, that her life would be better without the boys. I don't think she planned it for that long, but I think it was there simmering away. She was too accepting of their deaths too quickly.
What made it happen that night? I don't know, but I don't think she just start hacking away. And I think she always planned to kill both boys. I do not think Damon was killed because he had to be.

 

[Goody]

No, that is not where I'm going nor what I'm thinking. It never has been. I do not think Darlie snapped. I think she was depressed which made it more difficult for her to handle all of the other crap that was going on. The diet pills, the money troubles, husband troubles, she faced an entire summer at home alone with the boys. She did not snap. Why is it that you think I'm saying she snapped because I think she was depressed? [/color]

Because that is generally where the depressed theory goes.

Well, didn't something make her attempt/threaten whatever the heck she did? She didn't wake up that day in May and say "my life sucks" People do not commit suicide because they have a few crappy days. Usually there is something that puts you at a point of no return. I think Darlie went speeding downhill after that night in May. It didn't help that they were turned down forr that measley loan of 5 grand either. I am not giving her an excuse for murder. I hate that! Women should not be allowed to say I had PPD and killed my kids, let me off without a single day in jail. That is putting us down. Something was wrong with Darlie that somebody should have caught. Maybe, just maybe, all of that other stuff wouldn't have pushed her over the edge if she had been helped. Maybe!

I am not so sure that is true. Do you not believe that some people who commit murder are not screwed up? Good people do rotten things all the time. Just look what people do to each other in a divorce. It is amazing how they change when pitted against each other. You always hear inlaws say, "And she/he used to be so nice." LOL! O, and let's not forget those people who pray over their business deals. They will cut your throat in a NY second and come out the other side looking very ladylike/gentlemanly, popping right back into their nice mode.

I think Darlie was depressed but I don't think she suffered from chronic depression which is what some of your posts (or maybe Pam's) describe. Eventually chronic depression might have been in the charts for her, but I think she was years away from that being a reality. I think the diet pills contributed, not to her depression but to her nervousness, edginess which was a constant irritant. Money issues did, however, contribute to her depression and her irratability. In many ways it is all entwined, but I don't think one photo of her looking sad tells us anything at all about her psyche.

Also, women who kill during deep depressive moods are ill. I don't think stating a fact (that someone is depressed at the time they killed) offers an excuse for the crime, but it certainly can explain it. I am just not convinced that depression had a lot to do with this crime. At least that is the point I have evolved to right now.

 

[deanws]

Do yall remember when she told everyone that she and Darin were going to Europe to get surgery and try to conceive the girl she had been wanting? Now that sounds like she was just going to start over with a clean slate. WTH!?!? That statement always bugged me!

 

[Goody]

Nobody has said she killed her sons over not having a girl. It was just one more thing on the pile of crap Darlie saw as her life. Darlie did not want Drake. She managed to come out of her initial depression over the pregnancy when she made up her mind she was having a girl. After the ultrasound when she found out it was another boy, she took to her bed for 3 weeks. So she wasn't very happy about Drake to start with. I am not saying she had PPD, but something was not right with her. None of the reasons we've thought up aren't an excuse for her to kill those boys. It's the whole package. And even that doesn't make sense because we aren't Darlie. I do not think Darlie's depression CAUSED her to kill the boys, but it didn't help either. It would have put her in a place where she couldn't see a way out. People put on blinders when they are depressed. All of those little things became HUGE things and it just caved in on her.

I could be wrong but I don't think that happened. I think whatever went down was much more sinister than that and that is why nobody will turn state's evidence against the other.

I also don't think there is any evidence that she didn't want Drake. Yes, she was disappointed but once she adjusted to it, she loved him...as much as Darlie can love she loved him. Otherwise, he would have been kidnapped and found later in a nearby creek or something.

I still can't really put it all together. There are so many conflicting points that it is difficult to light on any one theory and feel confident about it. For awhile I was convinced that the depression played a major role in it, but there are too many loose ends that don't connect to that theory. And don't ask me what they are because my head is foggy tonight. Something about Darin just bugs the crap out of me and I can't seem to find a suitable slot to put him in. Same way with the depression thingy for Darlie. Something about it just doesn't fit right. I mean, it fits but it doesn't fit. Either way though we aren't going to get any clues on it from her photos. That was my initial critcism.

 

[deanws]

O/T for a sec. Did either of yall read Jim's book Blind Sight?

 

[Goody]

Goody, your post said you did not think Darlie had a chance to do anything before she met Darin. I'm telling you she did have a chance because she had a boyfriend, whom she saw alot of. You also said if she did have sex she'd be underage and therefore not responsible. I was pointing out that IF she did have sex at 14, it wasn't rape. It was with a boy the same age. IF! That is all I'm saying. I obviously don't think she had one night stands when I'm telling you she had a boyfriend.
Of course I had a boyfriend at 14. We dated until I was 17. I am a big Loretta Lynn fan. That's sort of a way out there example. Loretta did not have the life most of us have. She still doesn't.

Darlie didn't have the life most of us have either. At least not that early in life.

I think I said Darlie didn't have much time to be promiscuous. If she dated Darin from 15 to marriage, she obviously was not. I think your initial claim was that she slept around. I really don't want to go back to age 14 to try to dig something up on her. There is no evidence that she was ever promiscuous so let's just let it go. Okay?

 

[deanws]

I could be wrong but I don't think that happened. I think whatever went down was much more sinister than that and that is why nobody will turn state's evidence against the other.

I also don't think there is any evidence that she didn't want Drake. Yes, she was disappointed but once she adjusted to it, she loved him...as much as Darlie can love she loved him. Otherwise, he would have been kidnapped and found later in a nearby creek or something.

I still can't really put it all together. There are so many conflicting points that it is difficult to light on any one theory and feel confident about it. For awhile I was convinced that the depression played a major role in it, but there are too many loose ends that don't connect to that theory. And don't ask me what they are because my head is foggy tonight. Something about Darin just bugs the crap out of me and I can't seem to find a suitable slot to put him in. Same way with the depression thingy for Darlie. Something about it just doesn't fit right. I mean, it fits but it doesn't fit. Either way though we aren't going to get any clues on it from her photos. That was my initial critcism.

And of course, my criticism is that it DOES indicate that Darlie was just not herself. The eyes are the window to the soul. You could very much see that she was having problems. ;(