What are the FACTS we KNOW are true?

[twizzler333]

What is really scary is while I looked at the Candyrose link above, my children both said (pointing to the Patsy samples) that looked just like my handwriting, so I got out my old journals and sure enough, I think I could have matched that ransom note too if they had put me in the running there. Scary.

My question is.... Who is Wolf (the plantiff in that particular lawsuit) and if he was trying to obtain a protective order, why? and what did the handwriting analysis have to do with his lawsuit or request for protective order? I am not following it well. Thanks in advance for clearing this up for me.

 

[twizzler333]

BC...

"probable" that Burke didn't write the note means that it is not likely he did.

"possible" that Patsy wrote it means she very well could have written it.

David Liebman, former president of the National Association of Document Examiners, and Gideon Epstein, director of the forensics unit of the documents lab at the Immigration and Naturalization Service until he retired in 2000, are absolutely certain that Patsy wrote the note. I'd say these two experts qualify as people in authority who have disqualified Burke as the writer.

Btw, I'm very thankful you survived the hurricane, BlueCrab! Whew!

imo

Is there any information available as to their findings with an analysis like the one on candyrose's site? Something we can see for ourselves or perhaps some documentation as to their official findings? That would be interesting to see.

 

[BlueCrab]

I think it's time to briefly recap the handwriting issue. Some of the more recent posters aren't quite up to speed on this.

There are two camps of experts -- one camp who believes Patsy likely wrote the ransom note; and one camp who believes Patsy likely didn't write it.

The five handwriting experts who believe Patsy likely wrote it were assembled by attorney Darnay Hoffman, who was representing Chris Wolf in a civil lawsuit for defamation (Wolf v Ramsey). The lawsuit was dismissed.

The six handwriting experts who believe Patsy likely did NOT write it were assembled by the Colorado Bureau of Investigation. The CBI analyzed the handwriting of 73 suspects and gave Patsy a rating of 4.5, with 5.0 meaning elimination as the probable writer. In other words, in the opinion of the government's experts, Patsy was close to being eliminated as the probable writer as a result of her 4.5 score.

John Ramsey was eliminated, but many others of the 73 could not be eliminated as the possible writer, including Patsy Ramsey and Burke Ramsey.

JMO

 

[sissi]

Thank you Blue Crab that information brings to light a motivation, a motivation on the part of Darnay and his client to secure their own "experts" who were willing to state an opposite position than law enforcement "experts" for benefit of financial gain. A motive,yep yep!
I am not a believer in pseudo sciences, including handwriting analysis and fiber analysis, heck I was really thrown off in another case with "bug science" (which I had believed in)!

 

[Ivy]

sissi, why did you put quotation marks around the word experts? Don't you think Liebman and Epstein qualify as experts?

David Liebman is former president of the National Association of Document Examiners, and Gideon Epstein was director of the forensics unit of the documents lab at the Immigration and Naturalization Service until he retired in 2000.

Liebman and Epstein are true experts, with more experience and credentials than the "experts" hired by the Ramsey team.

imo

 

[twizzler333]

Whose team was Liebman and Epstein on? just curious. I would love to see their conclusions. Is this info available anywhere?

 

[Toltec]

This was heard and repeated by?

On the subject of the santa note,you are saying the note found in the trash can was a note written by McReynold's???

NO...this was not Bill McReynolds letter. This was a letter written by the AmeriKids people that came with the BEAR found in JB's bed.

Bill McReynolds wrote JonBenet a letter shortly before going for Heart Surgery. He wanted to make sure JonBenet knew that he was taking the fairy dust she gave him to the hospital....Patsy claimed that it was a poignant letter and she interpreted it as a farewell letter just in case Santa did not make it.

 

[sissi]

That is the reason, Ivy, on both sides, I am showing no preference, as I do not believe this is a very scientific field .(although fun at the fair)

Thanks Toltec for clearing that up. I thought it was a letter Jonbenet had written for Santa and discarded. (which I thought would show some sudden dislike of "her" santa)

 

[BlueCrab]

Whose team was Liebman and Epstein on? just curious. I would love to see their conclusions. Is this info available anywhere?

Darnay Hoffman's five handwriting experts were:

Tom Miller
Cina Wong
David Liebman
Larry Ziegler
Gideon Epstein

The CBI's six handwriting experts were:

Chet Ubowski
Leonard Speckin
Edwin F. Alford Jr.
Lloyd Cunningham
Richard Dusak
Howard Rile

JMO