What details would you like clarified?

[IrishMist]

What "missing" video?

I think Patsy's father still lives in Atlanta.

Sorry, it's getting late, and I realize I wasn't very clear...

I think Patsy's father had an apartment in Boulder at the time of the murder. I'm wondering if anyone knows where he was when JonBenét was murdered. I don't remember reading about an alibi.

The "missing video" that keeps getting brought up is something else that bugs me. If the family makes a Christmas video every year, why isn't there one for that year? Is it because someone else was there that year, so the tape had to disappear?

 

[tipper]

Sorry, it's getting late, and I realize I wasn't very clear...

I think Patsy's father had an apartment in Boulder at the time of the murder. I'm wondering if anyone knows where he was when JonBenét was murdered. I don't remember reading about an alibi.

The "missing video" that keeps getting brought up is something else that bugs me. If the family makes a Christmas video every year, why isn't there one for that year? Is it because someone else was there that year, so the tape had to disappear?

Or is it that John is telling the truth? I've never seen a suggestion that Burke and/or JonBenet said anything about someone else being there. Plus there were neighbor kids in and out all day so the someone would have had to leave as soon as the gifts were done , in addition to Burke and JonBenet being mum about it.

 

[narlacat]

Jayelles,

Leading expert? Stratbucker is well versed in stun guns, but he is not without peers of equal expertise. IMO Doberson is one of them, and Doberson is of the opinion that a stun gun could have been used on JonBenet, as are most of the experts who gave opinions on the subject.

The marks on JonBenet suggest a Taser brand stun gun had been used, and the Air Taser Corporation does not want her death associated with a Taser brand stun gun. Stratbucker has a vested financial interest in Air Taser, so his opinion that a stun gun was not used on JonBenet should be considered with caution.

BlueCrab

From The Boulder Daily Camera - January 13, 1998.

"They came over and showed me some pictures from the (Ramsey) autopsy and asked for my opinion, whether they could be stun gun injuries," Dobersen recalled. "I told them that they could be; that was a possibility. But there were a lot of things they could do to narrow down the possibilities of what it could be."
Dobersen told Boulder investigators to do what The New Yorker reports they eventually did - measure the distance between the wounds and compare that to stun guns.
"Besides", he added, "the only definitive way to tell if electrocution was involved in JonBenet's death is to re-examine her body and look for very characteristic changes in skin tissue."
"You really can't tell from a photo," Dobersen said.

Doberson said 'could be', a 'possibilty'. That is not the same thing as saying 'definitely'. He has not gone on public record saying the marks definitely came from a stun gun, to do that JonBenet's body would have had to have been exhumed....and it wasn't.



From Boulder’s The Daily Camera, May 2, 2001 (Christopher Anderson)
“Air Taser representative Stephen Tuttle said he was contacted by an investigator early on in the case and provided Smit with the same model to conduct his experiments.
"I am bewildered. I don't know what to think about the theory," Tuttle said. "It defies the logic of what the weapon does."
Tuttle conceded that two marks are close to the width of the contacts of an Air Taser, but said that's where the similarities end.
"We have never seen those types of marks when you touch somebody with a stun gun," he said. "We are talking hundreds of people that have been touched with these devices. I can't replicate those marks."
Tuttle said it is uncommon for the stun gun to leave only two marks on the skin. The body moves away from the stun gun, causing multiple, erratic marks.
"How you can keep this thing perfectly still, not once, but twice on a squirming child? It doesn't make any sense," he said. "I hope that doesn't throw water on somebody's investigation."
He also said the Air Taser does not render people unconscious.

Why would a representative from Air Taser lie about what the weapon does and does not do?
What would Air Taser have to gain from that?
As if the next person who goes to buy an Air Taser is going to think....Hmmm maybe I shouldnt buy this, look what happened to that little girl.

Quotes from the Daily Camera courtesy of FFJ.

 

[ellen13]

A little off topic, but did Nedra Paugh die and McReynolds as well?
Has there been anyone who has died related to this story or the family?

 

[narlacat]

Hi Ellen

Nedra passed away in March 2001 and Bill McReynolds passed away in Sep. 2002.
I don't know of anyone else.

 

[Jayelles]

My thoughts on the missing video are that it would be unusual for a family who had experienced serious illness and death NOT to record family events like Christmas. Memories are IMO even more precious when you have lost loved ones or have someone with cancer.

We always record Christmas. Last year I forgot to charge the batteries for the camera, but I just recorded with the camera plugged into mains. This year I couldn't even find the battery for the camera - but again it ran fine from the mains electricity supply.

OTOH - the Ramseys were planning to celebrate Christmas with the big kids in Charlevoix. I have often wondered whether this was the "second santa visit" that JonBenet ALLEGEDLY spoke of to Ms Kostanick. If they were having another Christmas Day in Charlevoix with Santa and a tree and presents, maybe they intended to record that - especially since the extended family would be there (more of an event).

 

[BlueCrab]

DOBERSON: "Besides", he added, "the only definitive way to tell if electrocution was involved in JonBenet's death is to re-examine her body and look for very characteristic changes in skin tissue."

narlacat,

Not all experts agree that the skin tissue must be examined to determine if a person has been stungunned. Page 431 of PMPT paperback:

"After reviewing the photos and this new information, Meyer concluded that the injuries on JonBenet's face and back were, in fact, consistent with those produced by a stun gun.

"Soon afterward, Ainsworth learned of a 1988 Larimer County murder in which a stun gun had been used on a thirteen-month-old girl, Michaela Hughes, who had been sexually assaulted and killed. Ainsworth met with Dr. Robert Deters, the pathologist on the case, and showed him the autopsy photos of JonBenet. Deters agreed the marks were consistent with a stun-gun injury, but he didn't think the body had to be exhumed. Nothing more could be learned by examining the skin tissue."

BlueCrab

 

[BlueCrab]

I guess we could say one thing for sure: this case was clouded.

Rupert,

I don't agree the case was all that clouded. Much of the PHYSICAL EVIDENCE (the most powerful of all evidence) is staring us directly in the face and we refuse to see it. For instance, in my opinion:

o that was clearly an elaborate erotic asphyxiation device wrapped around JonBenet's neck;

o those are clearly stun gun injuries on JonBenet's body;

o it is clear JonBenet had been chronically sexually abused;

o it is clear the Ramseys have been lying their heads off, and innocent people don't lie in a murder investigation.

o etc., etc.

BlueCrab

 

[capps]

In my opinion the only unrefuted hard evidence in this case is: Jonbenet was murdered.

Everything else has been contradicted,argued,disagreed,and denied by experts and posters here.

I believe that is why there are still so many "fence sitters" until this day,and why this murder has not been solved.

 

[UKGuy]

Rupert,

I don't agree the case was all that clouded. Much of the PHYSICAL EVIDENCE (the most powerful of all evidence) is staring us directly in the face and we refuse to see it. For instance, in my opinion:

o that was clearly an elaborate erotic asphyxiation device wrapped around JonBenet's neck;

o those are clearly stun gun injuries on JonBenet's body;

o it is clear JonBenet had been chronically sexually abused;

o it is clear the Ramseys have been lying their heads off, and innocent people don't lie in a murder investigation.

o etc., etc.

BlueCrab

BlueCrab,

I wish things were all that clear.

1. that was clearly an elaborate erotic asphyxiation device wrapped around JonBenet's neck;
It may also simply be a standard garrotte, as per the scene from the Godfather where Luca Brasi is garrotted, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garrote

2. those are clearly stun gun injuries on JonBenet's body
Not for me, her injuries could be the result of multiple causes, but the most probable explanantion is that they are pressure point abrasions incurred during her garrotting.

3. it is clear JonBenet had been chronically sexually abused
Not so far, the word chronically is open ended, and capable of misinterpretation.

4. it is clear the Ramseys have been lying their heads off, and innocent people don't lie in a murder investigation.
Well innocent people do sometimes lie in murder investigations.


.

 

[BlueCrab]

BlueCrab,

I wish things were all that clear.

1. that was clearly an elaborate erotic asphyxiation device wrapped around JonBenet's neck;
It may also simply be a standard garrotte, as per the scene from the Godfather where Luca Brasi is garrotted, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garrote

2. those are clearly stun gun injuries on JonBenet's body
Not for me, her injuries could be the result of multiple causes, but the most probable explanantion is that they are pressure point abrasions incurred during her garrotting.

3. it is clear JonBenet had been chronically sexually abused
Not so far, the word chronically is open ended, and capable of misinterpretation.

4. it is clear the Ramseys have been lying their heads off, and innocent people don't lie in a murder investigation.
Well innocent people do sometimes lie in murder investigations.


.

1. The contraption around JonBenet's neck was not designed as a garrote. It was designed as an erotic asphyxiation device. Why would the perp need an elaborate device with a slip knot on one end and a stick carefully tied onto the other end of the cord just to strangle a little 45-pound six-year-old girl? If the original goal was to strangle JonBenet he could have easily done it with his bare hands.

2. Almost all of the experts who have examined the autopsy photos, and the coroner who studied and measured the tiny rectangular marks, agree they are consistent with stungun injuries.

3. All of the medical experts who have studied the autopsy photos and the microscopic slide specimens agree JonBenet had suffered chronic abuse to the vagina.

4. The Ramseys have been caught in numerous lies, including a conspiratorial lie among the three of them claiming Burke was upstairs in bed asleep during the 911 call when the enhanced 911 tape proved he was downstairs in the kitchen during the call. Why were they lying about Burke's whereabouts? The answer is obvious.

BlueCrab

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

1. The contraption around JonBenet's neck was not designed as a garrote. It was designed as an erotic asphyxiation device. Why would the perp need an elaborate device with a slip knot on one end and a stick carefully tied onto the other end of the cord just to strangle a little 45-pound six-year-old girl? If the original goal was to strangle JonBenet he could have easily done it with his bare hands.

It was designed as a garrote. It was a 'strangulation' device, not an 'asphyxiation' device. Why would the perp need an elaborate device? I don't know, you'd have to ask the perp. Your own question is a good sign you don't have all the answers.

 

[Linda7NJ]

It was designed as a garrote. It was a 'strangulation' device, not an 'asphyxiation' device. Why would the perp need an elaborate device? I don't know, you'd have to ask the perp. Your own question is a good sign you don't have all the answers.

Strangling someone isn't as easy as most people think. It's not quick nor is it easy. I think the perp hastily attached the broken handle to quicken the process, entangling her hair in the process.

 

[BlueCrab]

It was designed as a garrote. It was a 'strangulation' device, not an 'asphyxiation' device. Why would the perp need an elaborate device? I don't know, you'd have to ask the perp. Your own question is a good sign you don't have all the answers.

HOTYH,

It was a rhetorical question.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

HOTYH,

It was a rhetorical question.

Does this mean you do have all the answers?

 

[IrishMist]

The only person that holds all the answers in this case is the murderer. The rest of us can guess, theorize, and/or speculate till we are blue in the face, and that's all it will be. Guesses, theories and speculation.

One of the many things I'd like to see clarified is the DNA X. Where was it found? Does it match the DNA on her body and/or panties?

 

[trixie]

DNA X is a curiosity. What I want to know is where was it found? Mark Beckner said at the crime scene. Where is that, her bedroom, the basement, the whole darn house?! Too vague for me. That's definatly one thing I'd like clarified. I also want to know what it consisted of. I mean in what form it was found. Need I elaborate? I didn't think so! lol!

 

[capps]

The DNAX is a mystery ....
I would also like to know whose finger prints were found on the big spoon from the bowl with the pineapple in it,the tea bag and glass.It makes it even more interesting since we know Patsy and Burke's finger prints were on the bowl,but no word about the spoon,tea bag and glass.

 

[trixie]

The DNAX is a mystery ....
I would also like to know whose finger prints were found on the big spoon from the bowl with the pineapple in it,the tea bag and glass.It makes it even more interesting since we know Patsy and Burke's finger prints were on the bowl,but no word about the spoon,tea bag and glass.

Yeah!!! I also want these things clarified. Especially the fingerprints on the tea glass. Good one, capps!

 

[BlueCrab]

The DNAX is a mystery ....
I would also like to know whose finger prints were found on the big spoon from the bowl with the pineapple in it,the tea bag and glass.It makes it even more interesting since we know Patsy and Burke's finger prints were on the bowl,but no word about the spoon,tea bag and glass.

capps,

DNA-X was mentioned by Chief Mark Beckner during a deposition in the Wolf v Ramsey defamation lawsuit. He said DNA-X was not on the body nor her clothing. That's all we know. My guess is it was on the wooden shards found on the basement floor, which in turn had been whittled off the end of the stick attached to the ligature device around the neck.

The fingerprint information on the spoon and waterglass containing the tea bag has never been made public. But due to the stickiness of pineapple, there were likely prints on the spoon and waterglass. My guess is they contained the prints of JonBenet and the perp.

BlueCrab