What did John do to find the intruder?

  • #41
What GOD has in store for them is.

Guess it depends on how you look at it.
What if there is no God.If a crime happens on earth then the killer has to pay for it where it happen,on earth,this is why we have a justice system and prisons and death penalties.





I'll give it to GOD and pray he has a special punishment for the killer.

To me this means denial.
Killers have to face justice right here on this planet where the crime happened.Cause maybe there is nothing out there after death.
Crimes are REAL.God will judge and forgive after death is not.
 
  • #42
There is no scientific proof of heaven or hell. When a murderer dies, all we know is that their body is in the ground/cremated. We have no proof that they are now burning in hell. Therefore, we have no evidence that they are being punished for eternity. That is why we have punishment on Earth so we know for certain that there are some consequences for what they did. Refusing to punish someone on Earth because God will take care of it is bringing religious matters into a government issue.

I also don't understand how you can forgive the sinner in crimes that have had no effect (compared to what the victim went through) on you at all. I read about JonBenet's murder and I want justice for her but I can't compare how I feel to what she went through. The same thing goes for every other murder I hear about. It's pretty easy to forgive when you weren't the one being brutally assaulted and murdered and then your family having to go through the entire tedious justice process.
 
  • #43
Interesting

http://www.lsiscan.com/id39.htm

Ramsey Trapped by His Own Words


"GLOBE", March 11, 1997. Reprinted with permission. Copyright Globe Communications Corp. 1997. Not to be reproduced without written consent of Globe Communications Corp.


Language Analysis Reveals...
Words from John Ramsey's own mouth damn him as the molester and murderer of his adorable little daughter JonBenet, says a top expert.

Avinoam Sapir, who teaches FBI agents how to detect criminals from the words they speak, has analyzed the Jan. 1 interview John, 53, and Patsy Ramsey, 40, gave to CNN in Atlanta just six days after JonBenet's cruel killing.

He told GLOBE that the Boulder businessman's choice of words show he is an abuser and knows who killed his daughter.

"The two major points that tell you most likely that John Ramsey did it are: Number one, he doesn't want to know what happened or who did it," says Sapir.

"Number two is switching from the word 'child' when JonBenet is alive in his mind to the word 'daughter' only when she's dead. This fits the profile of a child abuser."

Sapir pointed to the CNN interview, where Patsy said: "..if anyone knows anything, please, please help us. For the safety of all of the children.. we have to find out who did this."

And Ramsey said: "Because we've got to go on. And this, we can't go on until we know why. There is no answer as to why our daughter died."

Explains Sapir: "There is a major difference between the two parents. The mother said WHO and the father said WHY. The father doesn't need to know who did it - because he already knows. Why does he need to know 'why?' Well many people would like to be able to explain or know why they did harmful or bad things even though there's no doubt they have done them."

Ramsey reveals he's an abuser by the way he avoids referring to JonBenet as his "daughter," says Sapir, a criminologist and psychologist and head of the Laboratory for Scientific Interrogation in Phoenix.

"Generally, abusive parents cannot use the proper title for a child because they cannot admit to themselves they would abuse their own 'son' or 'daughter.'

"The only two places this father uses the term are when he said, 'there is no answer to why our daughter died,' and 'we wanted to get our daughter buried.'

"Both times are when she's already dead. However, when he refers to JonBenet being alive, he says 'child.'"

Private Investigator and speech analysis expert Roy K. Dudley also finds Ramsey's statement about the police investigation into JonBenet's death revealing.

Ramsey said: "If we don't have the full resources of all the law enforcement community on this case, I'm going to be very upset."

Says Dudley: "If he truly wants all of law enforcement resources used, why are the Ramseys handicapping investigators by not providing evidence, and why are they not clearing themselves by submitting to a formal police interview or polygraph?

"Why are search warrants necessary for their homes in Boulder and Michigan? These actions don't fit in with this very definite statement."

Dudley told GLOBE he, too, found it disturbing in the interview how few times Ramsey referred to JonBenet as his "daughter".
 
  • #44
there is no scientific proof of heaven or hell. When a murderer dies, all we know is that their body is in the ground/cremated. We have no proof that they are now burning in hell. Therefore, we have no evidence that they are being punished for eternity. That is why we have punishment on earth so we know for certain that there are some consequences for what they did. Refusing to punish someone on earth because god will take care of it is bringing religious matters into a government issue.

I also don't understand how you can forgive the sinner in crimes that have had no effect (compared to what the victim went through) on you at all. I read about jonbenet's murder and i want justice for her but i can't compare how i feel to what she went through. The same thing goes for every other murder i hear about. It's pretty easy to forgive when you weren't the one being brutally assaulted and murdered and then your family having to go through the entire tedious justice process.

thank you.
 
  • #45

Thanks for the link. I always suspected "The JonBenet Ramsey Foundation" was a crock, and this proves it. Then we have "The Patsy Ramsey Foundation", another piece of bs. It is just so difficult to comprehend and process how these people continued to justify their existence. Sexual abuse, murder, lies, deception, etc. It goes BEYOND mental illness. It is PURE EVIL.
 
  • #46
How can you forgive something you don't even understand (assuming there is an intruder).How can you forgive if you don't even know WHY.How can you say you wanna move on until you don't have an answer to all these questions.How can you say "she's in a better place and safe" until you know the answers to these questions.She didn't just go to sleep and never woke up.According to them she was BRUTALLY murdered,head bashed,strnagled and raped,it was a VIOLENT VICIOUS crime.It was a creature,a monster,they didn't know anyone that EVIL.How can you forgive and move on??
BS.PROPAGANDA.And these are religious people?NOT in MY opinion.
Unless they suffered from some sort of mental disease,you know,all those people who claim God "told them to" "God made them do it" and crap like that.

You can do, say and feel that way, only if you know what and why something happened. Also, you can forgive much easier if you are the sinner.

Cathy, please look at the Sharon Marshall case and note that her son Michael was kidnapped from his class room along with the schools principal. He has never been found.
 
  • #47
Guess it depends on how you look at it.
What if there is no God.If a crime happens on earth then the killer has to pay for it where it happen,on earth,this is why we have a justice system and prisons and death penalties.







To me this means denial.
Killers have to face justice right here on this planet where the crime happened.Cause maybe there is nothing out there after death.
Crimes are REAL.God will judge and forgive after death is not.

I'm with you Madeleine. I want to see it in the here and now. In THIS lifetime. People can believe what they want to believe insofar as the "hereafter" is concerned. I worked in a psychiatric venue for many years, specifically with convicted pedophiles. While my training allowed me to interact on a "professional" level with these offenders, had I been in an another setting, such as a prison, I would have volunteered to administer a lethal injection to these depraved individuals.
 
  • #48
I am totally pro the death penalty.I would even add torture to it when it comes to pedo killers for example,sorry.So there's one killer who brutally assaulted and tortured a little kid and you put him down, painless, with a little needdle,is this justice?No,I would let the parents of the victim decide what they wanna do with the criminal,if they wanna forgive,fine,send him to prison,if they want him,fine also!
"God will take care of it and judge,etc" is not good enough for me.Everyone must be responsible for his actions and pay.

Maddy, YOU ROCK!
 
  • #49
In other posts it seems the R's did take precautions for Burke to return to school. Alarms, holding him out a little longer than the Christmas break, and having someone stand outside his class room. This person would not need to be a huge gorilla of a person just a set of eyes and ears. No IDI is going to go to the school and make a scene in front of witnesses. If Burke was in danger, it was when he would be going or coming from school, field trips, anything outside of the classroom setting.I have never heard of a lone child being kidnapped from the classroom. On the way to or from school is another matter.

As far as forgiveness goes--- it is a requirement that all Christians hold no ill will towards anyone for any reason. If you have been slapped turn the other cheek. Forgiveness for anything done to their daughter before her death and the actual murder is what the R's are commanded to do by GOD as it in the Bible in several locations. The Bible also commands that if someone says you owe me money and they dispute the amount you say you will pay, You are supposed to pay them 10 times the amount to prevent any ill will from them.

Many people will profess to know about forgiveness but many don't know or adhere to the 10 times rule. It only appears once in the Bible while forgiveness is mentioned several times.

One of the most famous prayers is the Lords prayer.
Our father, who art in heaven hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. Forgive us of our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us. ..................

This can't be used as pointing a finger of guilt, it backfires and has the opposite effect to everyone who believes in GOD.

It may have been a ploy (if an IDI exists) to make that person mad. Mad enough to do something that brings them to the attention of LE.

If the motive was revenge upon John and John has "forgiven" him then that might make an IDI mad enough to give himself away.

We don't know that the BPD while trying to investigate both angles didn't agree with the R's to make this public statement. We don't know if the private investigator who had no access to crime scene evidence told the R's to do this.


I have forgiven who ever did this it was easy for me cause I don't have a personal connection to JBR or the R's. I don't want to personally punish those who commit these type of crimes but I do wish for incarceration. I think punishment even the death penalty is not punishment, we don't have the right or the ability to do what GOD can do.
He will have the final word and his judgment and punishment is forever.

Locking a person away for life isn't truly punishment, even taking their life. It only partially prevents them from committing crimes. This doesn't guarantee a prison guard isn't injured or killed by them, or another prisoner. Since we call ourselves a civilized society we do not seek revenge, and are not supposed to use the justice system for it.


So if you would, could you please clarify (in your opinion) what it is that should be done with criminals in our society? You state life imprisonment isn't a viable solution, nor is the death penalty. So in a "perfect world", just what would you do?
 
  • #50
"Since we call ourselves a civilized society we do not seek revenge, and are not supposed to use the justice system for it." quoted by CathyR

We, as a people, do not use our justice system as a form of revenge. Believe me, if we did, there would be a whole new system in place. Like maybe "an eye for an eye".
That would be revenge.
Justice is paying for a crime that you know and a jury of your peers know you committed. Admittedly, we may not have the best system in the world, but it sure beats a lot of other countries. Ask anyone whose spent jail time in countries like Peru and Columbia. There are a lot more, but I think you know where I'm coming from. We treat prisoners in this country very well, maybe that's why the system doesn't work, but please don't call it revenge. There have been people in my life who were hurt and killed by men who are walking the streets today after serving little or no time in prison, so I'm not keen on this calling it revenge. If it were revenge, one of them would be dead today and the other would have been so sexually abused that he would never have walked again. That would have been revenge.
 
  • #51
Let's take one step back. There is a kidnapping suspect. You have no idea who he is, where he is, if he is watching you, having time to write a 2 1/2 page ransom note IN your home. Who knows, did they install cameras to watch your movements? Did they bug your phones?

You have NO idea who they are, where they are or what else they've planned. Do you get your family out of the house? To a friend or just a neighbors house? Do you wake up your son, ready to protect him, take him EVERYWHERE with you, or have him guarded?

Nope, you read the note, placing it on the floor, get dressed, have Patsy call police, leave your other child alone in his room, despite the fact that you have NO idea whether anyone else is in your home or not. Call your friends and Pastor to come over immediately, even though you have no idea who, if anyone is in the house.

You do all of this, thereby sealing your daughters death, per the ransom note.

Sorry folks IMO only, this is the biggest crock of bullpucky in this case. It screams of inside knowledge of what happened. The Ramsey's showed NO fear!

If the R's had followed directions they would have gotten the money together and waited for a call. They still would have had to contact the pilot and MR, JAR who were expecting them. They might even waited till the next day as the note said they will be contacted tomorrow. Lets say they wait the extra day. No call. Then they call police, police search home and find JBR's body 2 days dead.
That makes them look pretty guilty. They did the right thing by contacting police.

The R's guilty or innocent, complying would have been possible, they had to call the 2 family members, and the pilot. That is talking to someone so matter what, they were caught in a Catch 22.

Ever see the movie "Lovely Bones". It shows the effect a child murder has on the family. The father becomes obsessed with catching the killer. I know it is Hollywood but it as a ring of truth to it. Any non guilty person is going to go freaking out of their mind. Suspecting anyone and everyone, the father.The mother withdrawing and not talking about it giving an appearance of not caring. The other kids, the grandmother. It had a lot of the behavior pointed to as guilt here on this forum, exhibited by these family members.
 
  • #52
You realize that was fiction, right? Absolutely NO relation to this case at all.
While every person and every family handles extreme stress and grief their own way, the silence from the close family members spoke volumes.
 
  • #53
You realize that was fiction, right? Absolutely NO relation to this case at all.
While every person and every family handles extreme stress and grief their own way, the silence from the close family members spoke volumes.


I would say it is very typical of how far out someone can be driven by grief. The R's exhibited some of the same symptoms.Just not on the same super natural extreme scale.
Burke couldn't deal and absorbed himself into his games.
Patsy became hysterical, depressed, almost bipolar trying to deal with it.
John became more like the dad, just not to that extreme. Patsy followed his lead as it was a distraction to try and make sense of the crime, and then they turned on their friends and neighbors-just like the movie.

A neighbor was the guilty party in that movie, a long term serial killer who preyed on young girls.



The family was advised to keep quiet and I agree. It doesn't matter what they did, speak or be quiet. Someone will play their word backwards and say they have a subliminal confession, perform armchair psychiatry on the comments and misquote them as well. The ends to which people took this case to a sensational level was irresponsible and totally uncaring of JBR and that poor blind woman who hold the scales. It still goes on today. The family simply wasn't going to play the gossip game.

People didn't care what they had to say as they were in it to sell newspapers, and whatever they could do, the "news" had to be more sensational than it's competitors. More "leaked" leads from a unknown source. More misinformation than Hitler used in all his propaganda campaign during the reign of the Nazi's was printed and sold as truth. In the months after the murder there wasn't a tab cover without a new JBR headline "breaking the case". The tabs hedged a bet that the R's did it and were trying to just follow statistics and not the evidence. They started at the end of the line and tried to make a case walking backwards. They fell off a cliff, cause only an idiot would walk backwards in mountain country. It has NOTHING to do with the R's money it has EVERYTHING to do with the EVIDENCE.

These are the same newspapers that print stories about dogs and cats mating and giving birth to mutant offspring, claim Elvis is still alive and that aliens eat at Wendy's on a regular basis. That is why they are called rags or yellow journalism. Yellow as in reference to cowardice and another bodily function that is done without bed wetting unless you cover your mattress with the rags.

The R's were told by Paul Bynum a friend to hire lawyers. He was in the group at the home when the R's called all their neighbors. They were told to hire separate lawyers, they didn't know or ask why they just did it.
The R's exercised their constitutional rights which should have made the DA's case stronger in the event of an IDI. Every i dotted every t crossed as the R's legal team would have been prepared to assist in any investigation of anyone but themselves.This is 100% legal no one can compel you to give damming or embarrassing information about yourself. This goes from the onset on an investigation all the way up to trial. On the stand it is called taking the 5th. It also discusses the Grand Juries role. I didn't know Grand Juries, the term, went all the way back to the time of Magna Carta

[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution[/ame]



The police refused to play ball when in order for the case to be solved the law required them to. They wanted to play poker in an interrogation room and the law requires them to play ball on a standard size field, umpire present, and each team fully represented. The BPD didn't know how to play ball only poker. They should have asked for help.

The DA was reluctant to file charges based on circumstantial evidence as too much real intruder evidence existed.

There are missing items from crime scene and not located in home. Duct tape, cord used to strangulate JBR. Piece of paintbrush assumed used to assault her with. Source of Brown Fibers found on and near JBR not traced to anything in house. DNA on panties and long johns-the same 4 markers found in the mixture from nail clippings matches the DNA on panties and long johns. That's too big a coincidence for all to be transferred even if the nail clippings aren't enough markers on their own the 4 are all present and match the same 4 markers as found on the DNA on long johns and panties. Open doors and windows as observed by Officer French upon first inspection of home. Footprints approx size 9 in basement close to body. A pubic hair on the blanket. How much more do you need to be convinced someone else was in the basement with JBR's body and handled the ligature( the brown fibers found there).
 
  • #54
Cathy, maybe you should re-read my post. In the first place, I have no problem with the Ramseys calling LE.

They could however, have told the dispatcher that there was a threat to kill JB if they did call police or the FBI.

I can see your point about calling the other children and the pilot also. It had to be done. They were not going to show up.

I am not sure how you misunderstood what I did say. They called in MANY other unnecessary people. They also took NO precautions for their safety, Burkes safety, or their friends safety.

They also ensured by the best of their ability that their daughter WOULD be killed. Tell me, in that movie, is that what the parents did? Did they do everything possible to make sure their Childs killer would use violence, as their demands were not only ignored, but totally smeared in the kidnappers face?

In my honest opinion, the Ramseys showed Jon Benet NO mercy, by completely disregarding instructions. They signed her death warrant, if you believe IDI.

If you believe as I do that RDI, it is a mute point.
 
  • #55
The DA was reluctant to file charges based on circumstantial evidence as too much real intruder evidence existed.[/B]

You got the bolded part right. I suggest examining the DA's record. And I'm just the man to help out.

There are missing items from crime scene and not located in home. Duct tape, cord used to strangulate JBR. Piece of paintbrush assumed used to assault her with. Source of Brown Fibers found on and near JBR not traced to anything in house. DNA on panties and long johns-the same 4 markers found in the mixture from nail clippings matches the DNA on panties and long johns. That's too big a coincidence for all to be transferred even if the nail clippings aren't enough markers on their own the 4 are all present and match the same 4 markers as found on the DNA on long johns and panties. Open doors and windows as observed by Officer French upon first inspection of home. Footprints approx size 9 in basement close to body. A pubic hair on the blanket. How much more do you need to be convinced someone else was in the basement with JBR's body and handled the ligature(the brown fibers found there).

A LOT. Duct tape and cord are easy to get rid of. The brown fibers are extremely questionable, as is the DNA, ESPECIALLY the nail DNA, since it only had 2 markers, not 4. The footprint and hair have been linked to the family for years now.
 
  • #56
You got the bolded part right. I suggest examining the DA's record. And I'm just the man to help out.



A LOT. Duct tape and cord are easy to get rid of. The brown fibers are extremely questionable, as is the DNA, ESPECIALLY the nail DNA, since it only had 2 markers, not 4. The footprint and hair have been linked to the family for years now.

I wish we could fine people who continue to post KNOWN falsehoods like the "pubic hair". I am so tired of seeing those lies (uncorrected by the RST, of course) all these years later. I read EVERYTHING. I don't stop when I find something that supports my own theories. I also read years ago about the "unsourced" pubic hair, palm print in basement, etc. But I continued to read on and research and stay updated.
 
  • #57
There are missing items from crime scene and not located in home. Duct tape, cord used to strangulate JBR. Piece of paintbrush assumed used to assault her with. Source of Brown Fibers found on and near JBR not traced to anything in house. DNA on panties and long johns-the same 4 markers found in the mixture from nail clippings matches the DNA on panties and long johns. That's too big a coincidence for all to be transferred even if the nail clippings aren't enough markers on their own the 4 are all present and match the same 4 markers as found on the DNA on long johns and panties. Open doors and windows as observed by Officer French upon first inspection of home. Footprints approx size 9 in basement close to body. A pubic hair on the blanket. How much more do you need to be convinced someone else was in the basement with JBR's body and handled the ligature( the brown fibers found there).[/QUOTE]

All false. The duct tape and cord may have been brought out that very night by the parents, as they were not searched.
We don't know that the missing piece of the brush IS missing. It may be in evidence and not be public knowledge.
The nail DNA should never be mentioned again by responsible posters. CONTAMINATION by the coroner's use on PREVIOUS DECEDENTS rules it forever inadmissible.
ONE partial footprint that was NEVER claimed to be a specific size and which matched a pair of shoes owned by BR which he ADMITTED to LE that he owned, though his parents denied it
NO pubic hair was found anywhere. The hair found belonged to Patsy Ramsey. It was an ancillary (NOT AXILLARY) hair from her forearm.

It does this forum no good to have to continually correct this information.
No one has to take my word. The correct information is out there.
 
  • #58
All false. The duct tape and cord may have been brought out that very night by the parents, as they were not searched.
We don't know that the missing piece of the brush IS missing. It may be in evidence and not be public knowledge.
The nail DNA should never be mentioned again by responsible posters. CONTAMINATION by the coroner's use on PREVIOUS DECEDENTS rules it forever inadmissible.
ONE partial footprint that was NEVER claimed to be a specific size and which matched a pair of shoes owned by BR which he ADMITTED to LE that he owned, though his parents denied it
NO pubic hair was found anywhere. The hair found belonged to Patsy Ramsey. It was an ancillary (NOT AXILLARY) hair from her forearm.

It does this forum no good to have to continually correct this information.
No one has to take my word. The correct information is out there.



We don't know that the missing piece of the brush IS missing. - DeeDee



photo of ferrule and bristles, remaining in paint tote:
[ame="http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showpost.php?p=180019&postcount=5"]Forums For Justice - View Single Post - Ramsey home: Basement photos[/ame]


brush parts:
http://painting.about.com/od/artglossaryb/g/defbrushparts.htm
 
  • #59

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