What do the profilers say?

[aussiesheila]

What other signs were there found pointing to chronic sexual abuse besides vaginal inflammation?

bedwetting
urinary tract infections
throat infections
abdominal pains
vestigial hymen
sleeping difficulties

 

[aussiesheila]

It doesn't concern me in the least that those closest to her could be in denial concerning sexual abuse. Denial is VERY common when sexual abuse is involved, doesn't mater if it's a family member or not doing the abusing. It's a none issue for me.



I think it's safe to say no one here thinks Jon Benet WAS NOT brutally murdered.

Mother in denial about sexual abuse, is aided and abetted by pedophile pediatrician who protects perpetrators by reassuring mother that child's problems are perfectly normal and nothing to worry about.

 

[BlueCrab]

BlueCrab,

Methinks, all this EA is a red-herring and unnecessary. If you apply a little of Occam's Razor, you can remove the EA, by suggesting JonBenet was simply being restrained by the ligature.

All this EA on a 6-year old is superfluous both in theory and in reality!

UKGuy,

Thank you for your great help in that other matter.

I agree the ligature on the neck and the one around the wrists were restraints, but it wasn't quite that simple. IMO an elaborately-tied slip-knot ligature around the neck with a stick (from Patsy's paint brush handle) tied on one end using neat multiple loops with the loose end carefully tucked under the multiple loops is a wee bit over-engineered to be a mere restraint. It was a breath control device.

In fact, the device was likely made some time between December 23 (when LHP took the paint tote downstairs to the basement) and Christmas Day. And it could have been made in someone else's basement or garage since the rest of the Stansport brand nylon camping cord was not found in the Ramsey's house.

The cops agree it was an EA device, as does Lou Smit, and Cyril Wecht, and John Ramsey himself said the perp was experienced in erotic asphyxiation. Why would John admit that if he hadn't been informed what the device really was that was wrapped around his daughter's neck.

BlueCrab

 

[Camper]

Rashomon, you posted, in part " JMO, but I think both Ramseys are involved in this up to their neck, which would perfectly explain their not comforting each other on Dec 26th 1996, when their daughter's dead body was finally found in their own home."

Rashomon, you rang my bell with this statement. Was the very fact that they both were not comforting each other have been because there was anger deep within PR because of what was unearthed on the 23rd. Was it because JR's son by his first marriage was the culprit. Had this son also shown up during the missing traditional family filming Christmas morning?

Would they have been comforting each other if it had been the youngest son that was found in 'that' night?

Was he ordered out of the home Christmas morning? Was it he that Barnhill saw coming to the home again later Christmas Day? As large as that house was he could have been anywhere in the house the remainder of that day and evening while the R's were at Whites party.

The young mans blanket indicated large amount of semen on it, and as Blue Crab and others point out the EA activity is major among young men. If a young man drank heavily prior to such activity, is this the major cause of death among the participants etc.?

Additionally what about JonBenets announcement to her little friend that she was to have a 'secret visit from Santa' after Christmas.

Aussiesheila, don't forget the two visits by JonBenet to the school nurse on two successive Mondays, after weekends at home in the weeks just prior to Christmas.

We are still not certain where PR was during the day, not that I remember anyway. Remember 'the scarf' that plays heavily in my scenario with the red and black fibres on JonBenets body, was seen on the bar in JR's camera.

I am assuming that the family alcohol supply was kept near that bar, someone correct me if I err on that.


.

 

[Nehemiah]

.The cops agree it was an EA device, as does Lou Smit, and Cyril Wecht, and John Ramsey himself said the perp was experienced in erotic asphyxiation. Why would John admit that if he hadn't been informed what the device really was that was wrapped around his daughter's neck.
BlueCrab

Why would JR say that about the garrotte being an AE device? I haven't thought of it in that way until you said it, BC. To whom was JR speaking when he stated that?

 

[rashomon]

Steve Thomas, "Inside the Ramsey Investigation", p. 42 [JB autopsy]:

Detective Trujillo then scanned the body with ultraviolet light and saw fluorescent markings along the thighs. Such light is useful in observing fluid not visible to the naked eye, and Trujillo thought he saw traces of semen. Samples were taken for testing. Any presence of semen would indicate a male attacker.

What were the test results? Was there any semen found on JonBenet?

 

[BlueCrab]

Why would JR say that about the garrotte being an AE device? I haven't thought of it in that way until you said it, BC. To whom was JR speaking when he stated that?

Nehemiah,

While profilng the killer John said the perp was experienced with AEA to Lisa Levitt Ryckman of the Denver Rocky Mountain News during an interview in 2000 while promoting the Ramseys book "The Death of Innocence".

From the interview:

"I spent a lot of time on 'The Murder' chapter, and when I did it, I felt I was probably opening myself up for a lot of criticism, because I tried to be as specific as I could about who I thought the murderer was", John said.

The Ramseys say they believe he is a male because of the strength of the blow to JonBenet's head. He is a pedophile with a preference for little girls. He is a sociopath experienced with autoerotic asphyxiation, the use of garrotes to enhance sex.

BlueCrab

 

[rashomon]

Nehemiah,

While profilng the killer John said the perp was experienced with AEA to Lisa Levitt Ryckman of the Denver Rocky Mountain News during an interview in 2000 while promoting the Ramseys book "The Death of Innocence".

From the interview:

"I spent a lot of time on 'The Murder' chapter, and when I did it, I felt I was probably opening myself up for a lot of criticism, because I tried to be as specific as I could about who I thought the murderer was", John said.

The Ramseys say they believe he is a male because of the strength of the blow to JonBenet's head. He is a pedophile with a preference for little girls. He is a sociopath experienced with autoerotic asphyxiation, the use of garrotes to enhance sex.

BlueCrab

Distasteful as it is to discuss these things, but I'm fairly new to the case and want to gather as much info as I can.
So to get back to that 'autoerotic asphyxiation' scenario John Ramsey spoke about:
Therefore mustn't auto erotic asphyxiation be ruled out completely because 'auto' (Greek prefix) means 'self', so autoerotic asphyxiation is something people do to themselves? Like for example, that musician (Michael Hutchence?) probably was doing this as he hung himself a few years ago.

And as for 'erotic asphyxiation': if two people (alternately) do this to each other, isn't it so that the respective 'recipient' draws the 'pleasure' from the asphyxiation, and not the 'asphyxiator'?
And that's where I can't see JonBenet in that scenario.

There are of course also killers who get sexually aroused by strangling their victims, but that's something entirely different as far as I'm informed.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I am not sure about the whole EA thing. But IF it were used in that fashion I would imagine her attacker was hoping for a seizure when he released the rope as the blood rushed back into her brain. A seizure could seem like an orgasm to a twisted child molesting freak.

 

[BlueCrab]

Steve Thomas, "Inside the Ramsey Investigation", p. 42 [JB autopsy]:



What were the test results? Was there any semen found on JonBenet?

rashomon,

No semem was found on JonBenet or elsewhere at the crimescene.

However, JAR's blue suitcase that was under the basement window had a comforter in it with JAR's semen on it. There was also a sham that matched the comforter and a Dr. Seuss children's book in the suitcase. Fibers from the comforter were found on JonBenet's body.

BlueCrab

 

[bkdianne]

I believe the R's were involved somehow simply because of the lies and actions they took,HOWEVER profilers can be wrong. Look at the Wsahington snipers. the FBI profile was of a young white male loner. No one expected TWO black males,one very young, that were questioned by police numerous times in the area and not even looked at for the crimes. They were loitering and acting suspicious, but the police had no interest in them at all probably because they did not fit the profile.
I am not saying that an FBI profile isn't helpful but it can not be used to block others out that do not fit the profile.

Dont forget the "Atlanta Bomber" they got wrong too...I felt so sorry for that guy and his mother!

 

[capps]

BlueCrab,

Is that a conclusive fact about the blanket fibers found on JBR,or are the fibers found on JBR "consistant" with the blanket fibers? I also have this same question,with fibers of Patsy's jacket,found near the crime scene.If just consistant,it still can possibly come from some other source,correct?

It's baffling to me about the contents of the suitcase under the window,because it doesn't make sense.Someone would have to be incredibly stupid,to leave such incriminated evidence,(if used in the murder),right under a broken window,which the police would obviously zone in on. Incredibly stupid ... or planted there to frame someone.

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy,

Thank you for your great help in that other matter.

I agree the ligature on the neck and the one around the wrists were restraints, but it wasn't quite that simple. IMO an elaborately-tied slip-knot ligature around the neck with a stick (from Patsy's paint brush handle) tied on one end using neat multiple loops with the loose end carefully tucked under the multiple loops is a wee bit over-engineered to be a mere restraint. It was a breath control device.

In fact, the device was likely made some time between December 23 (when LHP took the paint tote downstairs to the basement) and Christmas Day. And it could have been made in someone else's basement or garage since the rest of the Stansport brand nylon camping cord was not found in the Ramsey's house.

The cops agree it was an EA device, as does Lou Smit, and Cyril Wecht, and John Ramsey himself said the perp was experienced in erotic asphyxiation. Why would John admit that if he hadn't been informed what the device really was that was wrapped around his daughter's neck.

BlueCrab

Well if I was looking for an intruder and I was John then quoting from Lou Smit's profile to reinforce the sadistic pedophile persona, would be ideal.

I had always assumed that the ligature had been constructed that night, since there were shards from the paintbrush handle found outside the wine-cellar, or somewhere in the basement, suggesting the person who made it placed it against the wall and broke it with their foot? Also the birefringent material found within JonBenet, may have been transferred either by her assailants finger or by the paintbrush handle, I'm assuming the former due to lack of serious tissue injuries.

I dont doubt that the ligature and paintbrush handle can be interpreted as an AE Device, but if you accept that: "John Ramsey himself said the perp was experienced in erotic asphyxiation", then why is an accident advanced as the probable cause, particularly if this is not the assailants first assault upon Jonbenet? From the prevalent analysis JonBenet was not only sexually experienced, e.g. her enlarged hymenal orifice; but was also schooled in EA, e.g. Lou Smit, Cyril Wecht, John Ramsey, LEA et al; All this at 6-years old!

 

[aussiesheila]

I am not sure about the whole EA thing. But IF it were used in that fashion I would imagine her attacker was hoping for a seizure when he released the rope as the blood rushed back into her brain. A seizure could seem like an orgasm to a twisted child molesting freak.

I totally agree with your assessment Linda7NJ. I believe the rope was used for the added excitement of the sexual abuser as you describe and nothing whatsoever to do with any possible pleasure for JonBenet. I don't think the ligature had anything at all to do with EA or AEA either for that matter. If Lou Smit, Cyril Wecht, John Ramsey and the Boulder police all think it was EA then they are all completely wrong IMO.

 

[BlueCrab]

I had always assumed that the ligature had been constructed that night, since there were shards from the paintbrush handle found outside the wine-cellar, or somewhere in the basement, suggesting the person who made it placed it against the wall and broke it with their foot?

I dont doubt that the ligature and paintbrush handle can be interpreted as an AE Device, but if you accept that: "John Ramsey himself said the perp was experienced in erotic asphyxiation", then why is an accident advanced as the probable cause, particularly if this is not the assailants first assault upon Jonbenet? From the prevalent analysis JonBenet was not only sexually experienced, e.g. her enlarged hymenal orifice; but was also schooled in EA, e.g. Lou Smit, Cyril Wecht, John Ramsey, LEA et al; All this at 6-years old!

UKGuy,

The absence of the remainder of the white nylon cord in the Ramsey's house suggests the EA device had been made somewhere else and at an earlier time. However, there is no doubt about the wooden stick having been constructed from a paint brush handle in Patsy's paint tote in the Ramsey's basement. Thus, the handle of the paint brush would had to have been broken and removed from the house earlier, such as on the 23rd, if there was an intent to use the stick to build the EA device elsewhere. Constructing the EA device at someone else's house would also account for the absence of the roll of black duct tape from the Ramsey's house. IOW, the cord and tape were brought in by the perp.

The wooden shards found on the Ramsey's basement floor were cuttings from the paint brush handle. The wooden paint brush handle, after having been broken, appears to have been touched up to remove splinters by carving on it with a knife. Also, for some strange reason, the one-inch or so tip of the handle had been cut off or whittled off with a knife, as if trying to hide what the tip looked like. (I have a theory about that, but I won't get into it for now.)

In regard to JonBenet accidentally dying of asphyxia, that has always been an inherent danger to the practitioners of erotic asphyxiation (EA with a partner) and autoerotic asphyxiation (AEA by oneself). IMO this murder involved young children who may have been using JonBenet to experiment on using the EA device they had recently built. The result was a tragic accidental death followed by a grisly coverup to make it appear to be the work of an evil intruder representing a small foreign terrorist faction.

BlueCrab

 

[aussiesheila]

rashomon,

Fibers from the comforter were found on JonBenet's body.

BlueCrab

Don't you mean DARK fibres were found on JonBenet's body and you hypothesize they came from the comforter, BlueCrab?

 

[BlueCrab]

Don't you mean DARK fibres were found on JonBenet's body and you hypothesize they came from the comforter, BlueCrab?

aussiesheila,

As you likely know, the study of microscopic fibers is not as exact a science as the public believes. Experts are reduced to using the term "consistent with" in almost all cases, and experts disagree with one another. The Ramsey murder was no exception.

In the JonBenet case the Colorado Bureau of Investigation's report indicated that fibers from the comforter were found on her shirt, on her vaginal area, on the duct tape, on the ligature, and inside the body bag.

The FBI studied the same fibers on JonBenet and said they came from a source other than the comforter, contradicting the CBI, but the fibers failed to match anything else in the house. If the FBI is right, it means the perp took the source of the fibers out of the house with him.

Take your pick on who's right.

BlueCrab

 

[aussiesheila]

aussiesheila,



In the JonBenet case the Colorado Bureau of Investigation's report indicated that fibers from the comforter were found on her shirt, on her vaginal area, on the duct tape, on the ligature, and inside the body bag.



BlueCrab

Can you tell me how to access the Colorado Bureau of Investigation's report please BlueCrab?
I would like to read exactly what they said.
Thanks.

 

[BlueCrab]

Can you tell me how to access the Colorado Bureau of Investigation's report please BlueCrab?
I would like to read exactly what they said.
Thanks.

aussiesheila,

Sorry, but I don't have the report nor do I know how to access it. My info about the report came from Lou Smit's power-point presentation.

It was "The New Yorker" which reported that "Dark fibers found on the body did not match clothing found in the house". The New Yorker apparently got that info from the FBI.

BlueCrab

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Mother in denial about sexual abuse, is aided and abetted by pedophile pediatrician who protects perpetrators by reassuring mother that child's problems are perfectly normal and nothing to worry about.

JBR gets murdered, so her pediatrician becomes a pedophile. Was there an indication, aside from JBR's murder, that the pediatrician's a pedophile or is this another example of the circular reasoning thing?